Spouse in EE profile - To claim points or not?

[number411]

I've rightly created my EE profile by declaring my dependents including spouse, but I've not chosen to get points for her Education and Language, yet.

My wife will take her IELTS exam in Dec and will get her results by Dec 17. Assuming she gets CLB 7 or 8, she gets 12 points for language skills.
We are also getting her ECA that will give us 8 points. So, by adding her, we gain 20 points.

But by adding her, I lose 7 points for age, 8 points in education and 9 points in language. Thus we lose 24 points. Net, we lose 4 points by adding her. This is clear and quantifiable. I further lose 5 points on Dec 20 because of age cross-over.

What do I lose by not adding her is not so clear?

If I get an ITA, she won't get PR alongside me, and I have to become a sponsor and then get her a visitor visa, right? Can we get a spouse work-permit once I get a PR? How many years does it take to get family PRs? What are the other pitfalls that I'm missing by not adding a spouse in EE profile?

 

[yelena]

it is not a questio of what you lose points wise.. it is a question are you allowed to exclude your spouse and declare her as non acompanying. there are many topics on this forum that deal with this issue.

cic is aware of this and you will need a valid reason why she will not be coming to canada with you at this point.

 

[number411]

it is not a questio of what you lose points wise.. it is a question are you allowed to exclude your spouse and declare her as non acompanying.

cic is aware of this and you will need a valid reason why she will not be coming to canada with you at this point.

Well, landing as a new Canadian PR, with no job and no support system, isn't it less expensive and less risky, while also less traumatic for the family if the breadwinner travels alone, settled down and then brings rest of the family by sponsorship? Is this a valid reason for non accompanying spouse?

While sponsorship process, which might take upto 18 months, is going on, the spouse can visit the husband in a TRV for 6 months? The timeline for TRV processing seems really less, in days.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/temp/visitors.asp

Agreed, it's probably safest to include spouse as accompanying, but the 24 point drop looks like a deal breaker for me.

 

[One_Topsy]

Well, landing as a new Canadian PR, with no job and no support system, isn't it less expensive and less risky, while also less traumatic for the family if the breadwinner travels alone, settled down and then brings rest of the family by sponsorship? Is this a valid reason for non accompanying spouse?

While sponsorship process, which might take upto 18 months, is going on, the spouse can visit the husband in a TRV for 6 months? The timeline for TRV processing seems really less, in days.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/temp/visitors.asp

Agreed, it's probably safest to include spouse as accompanying, but the 24 point drop looks like a deal breaker for me.

So this means you're willing to live apart from your spouse for extended periods?

In any case, what i think is important is that if you declare that your spouse is not accompanying you when you file for EE, you need a very good reason to turn around all of a sudden and want to sponsor them.

The CIC is aware of the rules, and they know you can get more points the way you want to go about it. It's not impossible, but risky.

I'm in a similar situation, but deciding to go along with spouse.

Good luck

 

[yelena]

Well, landing as a new Canadian PR, with no job and no support system, isn't it less expensive and less risky, while also less traumatic for the family if the breadwinner travels alone, settled down and then brings rest of the family by sponsorship? Is this a valid reason for non accompanying spouse?

While sponsorship process, which might take upto 18 months, is going on, the spouse can visit the husband in a TRV for 6 months? The timeline for TRV processing seems really less, in days.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/temp/visitors.asp

Agreed, it's probably safest to include spouse as accompanying, but the 24 point drop looks like a deal breaker for me.

I totaly understand your point, but I don't think this will be acceptable by CIC.
First of all, no one expects your spouse and children to follow immeditately, they can follow you in two years, which is enough time for you to make preparations.
Secondly, we are all economic immigrants, immigrating to a country that is economically better established then our own country and where we can have a better life than at home.
You would need to prove your wife is better economicaly established in your country, with a secure job and income, and that she will loose something by accompanying you at this point.

When you are filling in your profile, it will ask you to writte the reason this person is not accomapnying you, and just to warn you, the space to writte this is about a sentance big. Anything more you will have to writte in your LOE.

In my opinion, valid reasons for non accomapnying spouse are: ongoing separation, staying behind to care for familly member that is ill, unresolved legal custudy issues for your children etc. So, anything you can prove with evidence and paperwork. Your logic, even though it is absolutely valid, will not do for CIC.

Again, I am not CIC, and can not say what they will do, but if this was accepted they would have to approve anyone married to be calculated as single.

I am hoping this unfair practice will come to an end, and that points will be calculated differently in the future.

 

[cyronn]

+1 to Yelena's post above. Additionally with a bit of luck and more prep, your wife can even get a CLB 9 which gets you 20 points. That might be easier than convincing CIC that you want to go alone now and sponsoring her later.

 

[number411]

You would need to prove your wife is better economicaly established in your country, with a secure job and income, and that she will loose something by accompanying you at this point.

When you are filling in your profile, it will ask you to writte the reason this person is not accomapnying you, and just to warn you, the space to writte this is about a sentance big.

In my opinion, valid reasons for non accomapnying spouse are: ongoing separation, staying behind to care for familly member that is ill, unresolved legal custudy issues for your children etc. So, anything you can prove with evidence and paperwork. Your logic, even though it is absolutely valid, will not do for CIC.

Again, I am not CIC, and can not say what they will do,

Ok. I understand the "more acceptable" situations for a non-accompanying spouse and appreciate your taking the time to help. The whole point of my original question as a separate thread is to understand the difficulties, pitfalls and risks associated in not adding her points.

Thinking of reasons, I can probably show paperwork for my child presently in school and mention our family's plans to not disrupt her education till she finishes a particular grade. I know this is a risk, and the safest route is to get the spouse to accompany, however the safest may not be the right thing to do in all cases. Let me ponder over this for some more time. ;D

So what is the suggestion here, that I withdraw my profile and wait for spouse's IELTS and ECA to complete, and then create a new profile with her points added?

If I get an ITA in this week's draw, I still have an option to not create an application within 60 days, thereby allowing the ITA to expire, isn't it?

 

[yelena]

Ok. I understand the "more acceptable" situations for a non-accompanying spouse and appreciate your taking the time to help. The whole point of my original question as a separate thread is to understand the difficulties, pitfalls and risks associated in not adding her points.

Thinking of reasons, I can probably show paperwork for my child presently in school and mention our family's plans to not disrupt her education till she finishes a particular grade. I know this is a risk, and the safest route is to get the spouse to accompany, however the safest may not be the right thing to do in all cases. Let me ponder over this for some more time. ;D

So what is the suggestion here, that I withdraw my profile and wait for spouse's IELTS and ECA to complete, and then create a new profile with her points added?

If I get an ITA in this week's draw, I still have an option to not create an application within 60 days, thereby allowing the ITA to expire, isn't it?

the risk of not beeing honest and making up the reasons, to then suddendly change your mind and then decide to distrupt your childs education a year from now, is that this might be seen as misrepresentation later on. The biggest issue is that if you get a VO that is having a bad hair day , you might be accused of misrepresenting your case, and consequences of that are not to be taken lightly.

Other than that, there are no risks and issues

You don't have to withdraw your profile, the points will recalculate when ever you make a change. You can mark her as accomapnying and add her ECA and IELTS when ever.

 

[number411]

You don't have to withdraw your profile, the points will recalculate when ever you make a change. You can mark her as accomapnying and add her ECA and IELTS when ever.

Oh? What if I get an ITA, based on the higher points, that I have now? Changing my profile after an ITA is okay, even if it will lower my scores a bit?

the risk of not beeing honest and making up the reasons, to then suddendly change your mind and then decide to distrupt your childs education a year from now, is that this might be seen as misrepresentation later on. The biggest issue is that if you get a VO that is having a bad hair day , you might be accused of misrepresenting your case, and consequences of that are not to be taken lightly.

Other than that, there are no risks and issues

I am not being dishonest. I have no way to add my spouse points now. Furthermore, we genuinely do not want the entire family traveling, till I get settled down in Canada and like the place. Mind is a fickle thing, it ever changes and doesn't care if the change is looked upon by CIC as sudden or gradual.

Misrepresentation is hiding facts. I don't think anyone is hiding any facts here. We are discussing the future plans of family and by definition a plan is something that can change.

Thanks for all the points!

 

[One_Topsy]

Bro,

Honestly, I'm as eager as you are to go to Canada. But IMHO, it's better done right than fast.

I'm currently sitting at 401 points, but will drop to 396 once i add my spouse scores later this month. As it is, my best option is improving my IELTS scores so that we make the cut off even when I add my spouse.

If you and your spouse get PR together, you can both "land" and then she goes back to your country till your established in Canada (hopefully not too long).

You really shouldn't put yourself in a position where the outcome might not favor you (remember rejection of spousal sponsorship is a possibility)

 

[number411]

Bro,

Honestly, I'm as eager as you are to go to Canada. But IMHO, it's better done right than fast.

I'm currently sitting at 401 points, but will drop to 396 once i add my spouse scores later this month. As it is, my best option is improving my IELTS scores so that we make the cut off even when I add my spouse.

If you and your spouse get PR together, you can both "land" and then she goes back to your country till your established in Canada (hopefully not too long).

You really shouldn't put yourself in a position where the outcome might not favor you (remember rejection of spousal sponsorship is a possibility)

All of your suggestions are good advice to me. I take it and will proceed as you say. Thank you.

 

[yelena]

Oh? What if I get an ITA, based on the higher points, that I have now? Changing my profile after an ITA is okay, even if it will lower my scores a bit?

as long as you are above minimum crs for your rounds you are fine. We dont know what your crs points are so you will have to decide for yourself.

another issue is this: if you get pr, and your familly wants to visit you in canada, having a familly member who is already a PR might not be a good thing, as they need to convince the VO at point of entry that they intend to go back home when their visa expires.

They have covered all the loopholes my friend., dont know what to tell you.. If only all of us that are married immigrated a few years back, things were a lot easier then

 

[pfse]

Misrepresentation is hiding facts.

It is much more than that. Be careful with information you providing to CIC.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/glossary.asp#mm

Misrepresentation
When a person makes false statements, submits false information, submits false or altered documents, or withholds information relevant to their application to CIC. This is a crime. Documents can include:
Passports and travel documents;
Visas;
Diplomas, degrees, and apprenticeship or trade papers;
Birth, marriage, final divorce, annulment, separation or death certificates;
Police certificates.
Lying on an application or in an interview with a CIC officer is also an offence under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Citizenship Act.

Misrepresentation bars a person from being granted Canadian citizenship for a period of 5 years.

If misrepresentation is found to have occurred after someone becomes a citizen, this can result in the revocation of their citizenship and this individual must wait ten years before they can be granted citizenship again.

 

[number411]

as long as you are above minimum crs for your rounds you are fine. We dont know what your crs points are so you will have to decide for yourself.

I'm at 448, quite a tricky CRS point this.

 

[number411]

Ok. I opened my Express Entry profile and noticed something.

There is no question that asks, Is your spouse accompanying you. The closest one is "Is your spouse included in this application". I had kept the answer as "No". Does this one harmless question that asks about including spouse in the application have so many implications of her getting PR and influencing points etc. Wow. I would have expected CIC to have provided some pop-up or explanation beside this question, of the implications.

Now, I changed the answer to "Yes" and noticed that a separate section for spouse appears, that includes her Personal Details, Study and Official Language proficiency. I am assuming these latter ones can't be updated unless ECA and language tests are done. Right?