Spousal sponsorship

[mandn]

Hi. I have a question.
My fiancee and I will be getting married in January. She is in the LICG program. In February we will work on and finish submitting our sponsorship application inland + OWP.

While CIC is processing her OWP we thought about moving to Japan for 6+ months to work (visit family, travel etc) there and wait until she gets an OWP in Canada.

I would apply for a Working Holiday Visa and hopefully in April we would temporary live in Japan.

Is this okay with CIC or do we have to stay in Canada during her OWP and PR process ? Would she be allowed back into Canada before/after her OWP is complete?

Thanks again.

 

[tuyen]

I think there's an important distinction you're missing here.

The official minimum necessary income requirement concerns only the sponsor's income.

I'm not missing that at all. I'm very well aware that it's only the sponsor who has to show minimum income.

When the official minimum doesn't apply, they take into account the earning potential of both parents, as well as any help they might get from relatives.

Earning potential is nothing but pie in the sky. It's a theoretical "what if" and "maybe" and "could be" and basically amounts to, "if they're not actually EARNING money, then we have to assume they'll end up on welfare".

I still maintain that the law, as described in 133(4) is very clear, and provides CIC with the option to require a minimum income for anyone bringing more than one child into the country. The wording is very clear to me and not ambiguous at all. HOWEVER, if for whatever reason CIC chooses not to exercise that OPTION, that's their choice. But it still gives them the ability to change their minds at any time, because the law backs them up.

Think of it in terms of speeding limits on a highway. The law, as it's written, says that you're allowed to travel a maximum of 100 km/hour on a given highway. But there have been many cases where I was doing 110 or even 120, and a police cruiser just passed right by me. And not just me, but many other people as well. Why? He could've pulled me and anyone else over for speeding, but he didn't. The reason was because he chose not to exercise the option afforded to him by law. So if one day in the future, they decide they need some quick extra cash and they begin pulling over everyone who's doing 105 km/hour, you can't go into court and argue, "but your honour...they always allowed us to travel 110 or 120 km/hour in the past and never pulled us over!" And that may be true, but they were doing it as a gesture of good will, because the law ALLOWED them to pull you over at any time. So if one day they decide to start going exactly by the wording of the law, they're well within their rights to do that.

The same thing is true with the income requirement. The wording in the law allows CIC to put a minimum income requirement on a spouse being sponsored with more than one child. There's absolutely no question about that in terms of how the law is written. So if one day you happen to notice the CIC manual is changed in its wording, or the Sponsorship Guide is changed in its wording, just keep in mind that they're well within their legal authority to do that, because Section 133(4) is clear and concise.

 

[Halfmoon]

I'm not missing that at all. I'm very well aware that it's only the sponsor who has to show minimum income.


Earning potential is nothing but pie in the sky. It's a theoretical "what if" and "maybe" and "could be" and basically amounts to, "if they're not actually EARNING money, then we have to assume they'll end up on welfare".

I still maintain that the law, as described in 133(4) is very clear, and provides CIC with the option to require a minimum income for anyone bringing more than one child into the country. The wording is very clear to me and not ambiguous at all. HOWEVER, if for whatever reason CIC chooses not to exercise that OPTION, that's their choice. But it still gives them the ability to change their minds at any time, because the law backs them up.

Think of it in terms of speeding limits on a highway. The law, as it's written, says that you're allowed to travel a maximum of 100 km/hour on a given highway. But there have been many cases where I was doing 110 or even 120, and a police cruiser just passed right by me. And not just me, but many other people as well. Why? He could've pulled me and anyone else over for speeding, but he didn't. The reason was because he chose not to exercise the option afforded to him by law. So if one day in the future, they decide they need some quick extra cash and they begin pulling over everyone who's doing 101 km/hour, you can't go into court and argue, "but your honour...they always allowed us to travel 110 or 120 km/hour in the past and never pulled us over!" And that may be true, but they were doing it as a gesture of good will, because the law ALLOWED them to pull you over at any time. So if one day they decide to start going exactly by the wording of the law, they're well within their rights to do that.

The same thing is true with the income requirement. The wording in the law allows CIC to put a minimum income requirement on a spouse being sponsored with more than one child. There's absolutely no question about that in terms of how the law is written. So if one day you happen to notice the CIC manual is changed in its wording, or the Sponsorship Guide is changed in its wording, just keep in mind that they're well within their legal authority to do that, because Section 133(4) is clear and concise.

Agreed. Good Analogy.


BTW only Ms. Daisy drives at 110 km/hr. ??? LOL

 

[tuyen]

Agreed. Good Analogy.

BTW only Ms. Daisy drives at 110 km/hr. ??? LOL

Yeah...I know that all too well, and I can't stand driving that slow. But when you're on a first-name basis with the traffic court judge, I figured it was time to try the Miss Daisy approach, at least for a while.

 

[Sweden]

Hi. I have a question.
My fiancee and I will be getting married in January. She is in the LICG program. In February we will work on and finish submitting our sponsorship application inland + OWP.

While CIC is processing her OWP we thought about moving to Japan for 6+ months to work (visit family, travel etc) there and wait until she gets an OWP in Canada.

I would apply for a Working Holiday Visa and hopefully in April we would temporary live in Japan.

Is this okay with CIC or do we have to stay in Canada during her OWP and PR process ? Would she be allowed back into Canada before/after her OWP is complete?

Thanks again.

IF you file INLAND, both sponsor and applicants are required to stay IN canada - that's the point of the Inland application.
If you want to be able to travel (both you and the applicant), you should file outland. You won't have an OWP after stage 1, but you will be able to travel in and out of the country - provided that you are a Canadian citizen, not a Canadian PR. If the sponsor is a PR, he is required to stay in Canada (both for inland and outland).

Good luck,
Sweden

 

[mandn]

IF you file INLAND, both sponsor and applicants are required to stay IN canada - that's the point of the Inland application.
If you want to be able to travel (both you and the applicant), you should file outland. You won't have an OWP after stage 1, but you will be able to travel in and out of the country - provided that you are a Canadian citizen, not a Canadian PR. If the sponsor is a PR, he is required to stay in Canada (both for inland and outland).

Good luck,
Sweden

Thanks for your advice.
Sorry if i am being redundant I just want to get this right.

So we cannot go abroad for even a 2 week holiday if we have already filed inland? (I am a canadian citizen)

OR if we apply outland only I can travel to and from Canada while she has to remain outside of Canada until she receives PR?

and if you file inland you get an OWP after stage one while outland you get no OWP until you receive PR at the very end of the process?

 

[Sweden]

Thanks for your advice.
Sorry if i am being redundant I just want to get this right.

So we cannot go abroad for even a 2 week holiday if we have already filed inland? (I am a canadian citizen)

OR if we apply outland only I can travel to and from Canada while she has to remain outside of Canada until she receives PR?

and if you file inland you get an OWP after stage one while outland you get no OWP until you receive PR at the very end of the process?

Well -if you file inland, she is supposed to stay in Canada. If you go for a 2 weeks holidays for example, and she gets refused entry at the border ( it can happen, even to visa-exempt, if you get a moody officer that thinks you should stay in the country no matter what etc etc, or any other reason), then her application will be deemed abandoned, and you will have to start all over again, outland this time. It also applies if she has to fly back to her own country for family emergency etc....

If you file outland, and since you are Canadian, you can travel in and out of the country ( but you need to send proofs to CIC that you intend to establish in Canada once the PR is granted, but that's not usually too difficult), and so can she. She can be in canada while filing outland (as long as she has a valid status, as a visitor, working visa or any other status) but she has to MAINTAIN her status ( renew her visitor visa, or extend it), as there is no implied status with outland. She can travel in and out of Canada and it won't impact her application. If for any reason she gets denied entry ( let's say she went home for a family thing, and then comes back to Canada, and gets denied entry), then it won't affect her application.

For OWP: yes, inland you can get one ( you have to ask for it with the rest of the inland forms, and it can be granted once stage 1 is completed, currently 6 months), with outland, there is no OWP, she will have to wait for her complete PR.

Depending on where she is from, it's sometimes faster to go outland, sometimes inland is faster for stage 1 ( I got my PR in total 7 months, and inland first stage is 6 months anyway).

Hope it clarifies!
Sweden

 

[vincystress]

hi every one my letter came today i will be landing on jan 16th i will update u guyz how it gose

 

[mandn]

Well -if you file inland, she is supposed to stay in Canada. If you go for a 2 weeks holidays for example, and she gets refused entry at the border ( it can happen, even to visa-exempt, if you get a moody officer that thinks you should stay in the country no matter what etc etc, or any other reason), then her application will be deemed abandoned, and you will have to start all over again, outland this time. It also applies if she has to fly back to her own country for family emergency etc....

So it might be possible to file inland and leave for her country together until she gets her OWP and then come back after she gets it. (~6 months) Then the only problem will be if the officer at the border notices this and throws away her OWP and her whole application... :-\

For OWP: yes, inland you can get one ( you have to ask for it with the rest of the inland forms, and it can be granted once stage 1 is completed, currently 6 months), with outland, there is no OWP, she will have to wait for her complete PR.

Depending on where she is from, it's sometimes faster to go outland, sometimes inland is faster for stage 1 ( I got my PR in total 7 months, and inland first stage is 6 months anyway).

Hope it clarifies!
Sweden

Yea I think inland would be 6months + 8 months and outland is 43 days + 11 months (her application will go to the Manilla office)

 

[KKRSTNA]

Question regarding marriage certificate.

Would I (non-Canadian citizen/pr) have to put my home address here in the states? or the address of which I intend to live? (in Ontario)?

 

[computergeek]

hi every one my letter came today i will be landing on jan 16th i will update u guyz how it gose

Congratulations!

It must be a relief to have it over in less than a month.

 

[Sweden]

So it might be possible to file inland and leave for her country together until she gets her OWP and then come back after she gets it. (~6 months) Then the only problem will be if the officer at the border notices this and throws away her OWP and her whole application... :-\

Yea I think inland would be 6months + 8 months and outland is 43 days + 11 months (her application will go to the Manilla office)

Filing inland + leaving the country just after that is a VERY big risk, and I would certainly not advise you to do that! the whole point of filing inland is to STAY in canada. So if you leave right after, there is really no reason to file inland - I understand that you want to have a OWP after 6 months, but in a way, you can't have it all! either you file outland, and you can be outside of Canada and work for that time, OR you file Inland and you have to stay in Canada and not work for that time, and not be able to leave - but have a work permit after 6 months. Your choice. But a combination of the advantages of both processes is not a possibility - and the border officer will be able to see that you have applied inland at the border, and there is a good risk that he will question why you have been outside of the country while filing inland. Here is what CIC says :


This application is for spouses or common-law partners of Canadian citizens or permanent residents who wish to apply for permanent residence while both the sponsor and the applicant are residing in Canada.

If the applicant does not reside in Canada, DO NOT use this form.

11 months is an average for Manilla applicants and you could be done earlier. You could probably send the outland application, then go and live in Japan, and come back after 6 months, either with your PR approved ( if it all goes really fast), or with a few more months to wait - assuming your partner is Japanese, she could come on a tourist visa and wait out the rest of the PR process.

Good luck,
Sweden

 

[vincystress]

Congratulations!

It must be a relief to have it over in less than a month.

yes it is thank you for all your help

 

[moz77]

Hi everyone!

I am a PR sponsoring my wife (outland) and I know that I need to stay in Canada while the application is in process, but I might have to leave the country for about a couple of weeks (a month at the most) to attend a family matter. Would this affect our application?

Thank you

 

[Sweden]

Hi everyone!

I am a PR sponsoring my wife (outland) and I know that I need to stay in Canada while the application is in process, but I might have to leave the country for about a couple of weeks (a month at the most) to attend a family matter. Would this affect our application?

Thank you

You should keep it to the minimum possible. It's difficult to draw the line, but most people say that 2 weeks is OK. Maybe 3 ? if you have a very good reason. But I would not push it, so even if it's difficult for family matters, try and make it as short as possible.

Keep the proofs to show which day you travelled and which day you came back, and if the family matter involves your wife, keep proof of everything, so that it can be added to your file as proofs of genuine relationship if the VO asks for it in the second stage.
Good luck,
Sweden