Spousal Open Work Permit for Provincial Nominee refused

[Matt173]

Don't get me started on any sort of appeals process, if you can even call it that. When it comes to pull the money out of immigrants' pockets everyone, the federal government, the provinces, the municipalities, the lawyers, and the consultants all open their hands and happily collect, but when it comes to delivering on a fair, ethical, and timely delivery of the product then no one is seen anywhere. Instead we still hear the dumb excuse of covid of why everything is delayed not just by a few months but YEARS...;-(

You state: "From own experience the mistakes and shortsightedness of many immigration officials is not just a rare exception, a lot of applications are carelessly evaluated and that with an insanely slow processing speed. Something in this system IS BADLY BROKEN AND THERE IS CURRENTLY NO INTENT TO FIX IT."

Totally agree with you.

One time I was applying for a work permit at the border and a CBSA agent was reviewing my neat stack of documents.

She told me: "I cant' issue you a work permit because you don't have a support letter from the province stating you're urgently needed by your employer."

I told at her: "Please look at the third page from the top."

CBSA agent: "Oh."

They make mistakes all the time and it's a shame that when IRCC makes mistakes, you aren't there in front of them to challenge them. Instead you have to deal with a PFL and pay lots of money to a lawyer to deal with it.

 

[moscatojuices]

Don't get me started on any sort of appeals process, if you can even call it that. When it comes to pull the money out of immigrants' pockets everyone, the federal government, the provinces, the municipalities, the lawyers, and the consultants all open their hands and happily collect, but when it comes to delivering on a fair, ethical, and timely delivery of the product then no one is seen anywhere. Instead we still hear the dumb excuse of covid of why everything is delayed not just by a few months but YEARS...;-(

To be honest you may think Canada is bad but it's actually easy, very cheap and they offer so many immigration pathways. If you love this country that much, you have a very good shot at staying in it. I mean, $1,365 for PR. Really? Try Australia/UK, where fees are 3x and the pathways are much more narrow.

In fact in Australia the PM himself declared a few years ago: "We are going to kill every pathway to permanent residency for work holiday visa holders." How stupid is that? How dumb can you be? When someone comes to the country and works, proves their integration, pays taxes, Australia is keen to throw them out. But they're happy to give PR to people who have never set foot in Australia (like FSW workers) simply because they have a degree, but zero connection/contribution to the labour market and economy. Only Australians keep proving that retardation is possible. And yes, their covid processing times are crazy long too.

And in my job here in Canada we have so many people from the UK leaving and coming to Canada after having spent 10+ years in that country just trying to get PR but the government "cockblocks" them at every turn.

With IRCC all the forms really are very straight forward and require fairly simple details, fact checking and honesty. If you do all those, you're fine. I got my IEC visa in one shot, my SINP nomination in one shot, my closed work permit in one shot, and just received my Non-EE PNP AOR last week. No issues. Didn't even need a lawyer, just applied good old common-sense and asked for advice online where there were gaps.

IMO most people making mistakes in visa apps are people who shoot themselves in the foot and don't think through all their answer properly and don't have fact-checking abilities. And these people have degrees/PhDs.

In saying that I don't dispute that IRCC is a nuisance with how it's handling applications and the cruelty of returning applications after 18 months of receiving them because 1 form was forgotten (or not seen by an officer). Some of the people on FB threads and on this forum have openly talked about suicide as a result (sad to say, wouldn't surprise me if they have).

 

[Matt173]

It's not about the money for me, nor should it be for anyone else. Migrating to a new country is a serious consideration for me and coming to a new place to me means that I show respect, follow the rule of law and abide by the law and play my part in making that location a better place. I understand how Canada must apply stringent filters but coming from and having lived at several highly developed countries I decry the way immigration applications are assessed. I never compare Canada and its policies with other nations, I compare it to a high bar that Canada should set for itself. Right now it is hard to not get the impression that immigration is treated as a big money game, which it should not.

I had to wait a very long time to get my PGWP, my provincial nomination, and now PR I do not even hold my breath, if I hear back in 2023 or 2024 then I am fine. I gave up hoping for a reasonable time frame.

Finding the right application is a nightmare. I am a PGWP holder with Open Work Permit and a BC provincial nominee and applied for PR (not yet confirmed receipt of documents), my wife also holds an OWP but hers expires in December, we need to extend it. Nowhere is there a clear guideline whether it has to be her or me who needs to apply for her OWP extension/new OWP. Nowhere does it state which forms are to be filled out (is it IMM 5710 F, or something else...). As soon as it gets into the nitty gritty it gets highly confusing and opaque. Webforms to IRC are hopeless, I never got anything but canned, copy/pasted answers that hardly tangent my issue at all. Calling them? Good luck... its a very frustrating process. And I don't care how Australia or others do it...I care about fair treatment and timely processing. If they don't have enough manpower they should hire more damn immigration officers. Its really that simple. CRA can do so on a whim when they need additional staff, but immigrants always draw the short end of the stick...

To be honest you may think Canada is bad but it's actually easy, very cheap and they offer so many immigration pathways. If you love this country that much, you have a very good shot at staying in it. I mean, $1,365 for PR. Really? Try Australia/UK, where fees are 3x and the pathways are much more narrow.

In fact in Australia the PM himself declared a few years ago: "We are going to kill every pathway to permanent residency for work holiday visa holders." How stupid is that? How dumb can you be? When someone comes to the country and works, proves their integration, pays taxes, Australia is keen to throw them out. But they're happy to give PR to people who have never set foot in Australia (like FSW workers) simply because they have a degree, but zero connection/contribution to the labour market and economy. Only Australians keep proving that retardation is possible. And yes, their covid processing times are crazy long too.

And in my job here in Canada we have so many people from the UK leaving and coming to Canada after having spent 10+ years in that country just trying to get PR but the government "cockblocks" them at every turn.

With IRCC all the forms really are very straight forward and require fairly simple details, fact checking and honesty. If you do all those, you're fine. I got my IEC visa in one shot, my SINP nomination in one shot, my closed work permit in one shot, and just received my Non-EE PNP AOR last week. No issues. Didn't even need a lawyer, just applied good old common-sense and asked for advice online where there were gaps.

IMO most people making mistakes in visa apps are people who shoot themselves in the foot and don't think through all their answer properly and don't have fact-checking abilities. And these people have degrees/PhDs.

In saying that I don't dispute that IRCC is a nuisance with how it's handling applications and the cruelty of returning applications after 18 months of receiving them because 1 form was forgotten (or not seen by an officer). Some of the people on FB threads and on this forum have openly talked about suicide as a result (sad to say, wouldn't surprise me if they have).

 

[canuck78]

It's not about the money for me, nor should it be for anyone else. Migrating to a new country is a serious consideration for me and coming to a new place to me means that I show respect, follow the rule of law and abide by the law and play my part in making that location a better place. I understand how Canada must apply stringent filters but coming from and having lived at several highly developed countries I decry the way immigration applications are assessed. I never compare Canada and its policies with other nations, I compare it to a high bar that Canada should set for itself. Right now it is hard to not get the impression that immigration is treated as a big money game, which it should not.

I had to wait a very long time to get my PGWP, my provincial nomination, and now PR I do not even hold my breath, if I hear back in 2023 or 2024 then I am fine. I gave up hoping for a reasonable time frame.

Finding the right application is a nightmare. I am a PGWP holder with Open Work Permit and a BC provincial nominee and applied for PR (not yet confirmed receipt of documents), my wife also holds an OWP but hers expires in December, we need to extend it. Nowhere is there a clear guideline whether it has to be her or me who needs to apply for her OWP extension/new OWP. Nowhere does it state which forms are to be filled out (is it IMM 5710 F, or something else...). As soon as it gets into the nitty gritty it gets highly confusing and opaque. Webforms to IRC are hopeless, I never got anything but canned, copy/pasted answers that hardly tangent my issue at all. Calling them? Good luck... its a very frustrating process. And I don't care how Australia or others do it...I care about fair treatment and timely processing. If they don't have enough manpower they should hire more damn immigration officers. Its really that simple. CRA can do so on a whim when they need additional staff, but immigrants always draw the short end of the stick...

No matter how much staff IRCC hires there will never be enough manpower. For example if they added more people to the customer service line more people would call daily or weekly to check on the progress of their application even if they have been told that there will be long periods of time when nothing happens. You may not have issue with the cost of applying for PRs, TRVs, permits, citizenship but most people do. Lots of people who have delayed applying for citizenship for years because there was an election promise to eliminate the fee for citizenship. No guarantee that it will ever happen and it is tough to justify that Canadisn taxpayers should absorb the cost when the fees could go to employing more workers but people are waiting to apply because they hope to not have to pay the fees. Many are under the false impression that immigration is a money maker for the government but the truth is that most fees don’t cover the processing costs. Lots of complaints about how the government is making hundreds of millions of dollars off processing fees which is untrue. If IRCC raised the fees to hire more people there would likely be outrage and it would impact people from countries where the average daily wage is very low compared to Canada or Canadians who are living paycheque to paycheque. It is a tough call many would also be happy to pay more for faster average processing times.

IRCC has had multiple issues over the past few years that have put incredible strain on the system that was already struggling with increased demand. Covid and it’s impact in Canada and outside Canada has lead to backlogs. Many Canadians who worked in embassies and consulates abroad were often sent back to Canada if there were huge outbreaks where access to medical care may not be possible due to demand. There were lockdowns in Canada and remote work is not always possible when dealing with sensitive personal information especially in cases where remote systems were not already in place. Afghanistan and Ukraine has also added significant strain on the system because of the volume of applicants in a short amount of time. For many cases in Afghanistan this also involved dealing with neighbouring governments, organizing charters with IOM, etc. Roxham Rd was also reopened so there was a huge increase in asylum claims through the US. The amount of asylum seekers made the news in the US but what didn’t make the news was that a decent number continued North to Canada. Canada has continued to try to accept an ever growing number of international students which also puts strain on the system but both colleges and universities are very dependent on the fees that these students bring to the schools. Then there is both economic immigration and family sponsorship which are also very important. IRCC is dealing with the backlog of people who didn’t want to relocate during Covid or didn’t have their applications completed due to Covid. Don’t think anyone is denying that there is a huge backlog of applicants and that there are areas of the system that have been neglected compared to others but the answers are not that simple. Just hiring and training the new IRCC staff takes times. Things could certainly be done better. That could be said for most government systems across the world. Hopefully the government will prioritize processing the backlog of applicants before adding more economic immigrants to the system but there is also a lot of pressure to bring in immigrants working in select fields to help fill in the shortage of skills. The whole system is very complex with lots of moving parts so definitely no easy fixes unfortunately.

 

[Matt173]

Immigration is a huge money maker for the government. Let me enlighten you: Increased number of individuals willing to work at minimum wage at Walmart, gas stations, convenience stores. -> More tax payers, happy employers, cost kept relatively lower for goods and services -> happy citizenry -> repeat votes for this crap government -> retention of power -> free reign about financial allocations....

Then you have a constant cash flow into the pension system to finance the old folks who are not replaced by enough younger people in Canada.

I comment on specifics inline below:

No matter how much staff IRCC hires there will never be enough manpower. For example if they added more people to the customer service line more people would call daily or weekly to check on the progress of their application even if they have been told that there will be long periods of time when nothing happens. [This is just an assertion of yours, nothing more than a claim. You can prevent that by adding filters and voice message choices before connecting to a human]

You may not have issue with the cost of applying for PRs, TRVs, permits, citizenship but most people do. Lots of people who have delayed applying for citizenship for years because there was an election promise to eliminate the fee for citizenship. No guarantee that it will ever happen and it is tough to justify that Canadisn taxpayers should absorb the cost when the fees could go to employing more workers but people are waiting to apply because they hope to not have to pay the fees. [Nonsense, any evidence other than anecdotal stories? Most employers here offer at the absolute least 18-22 bucks an hour, tell me how $630 for a citizenship application is unaffordable for anyone working here in Canada? That's a few dozen hours of work, net of taxes. ]

Many are under the false impression that immigration is a money maker for the government but the truth is that most fees don’t cover the processing costs. Lots of complaints about how the government is making hundreds of millions of dollars off processing fees which is untrue. If IRCC raised the fees to hire more people there would likely be outrage and it would impact people from countries where the average daily wage is very low compared to Canada or Canadians who are living paycheque to paycheque. It is a tough call many would also be happy to pay more for faster average processing times. [Simple calculation: 100 additional case workers, each 65k/annum, 6.5mln additional funds, that is financed easily by just 10k immigrant applicants from the processing fees. Are you aware how many applications IRC receives each year? Are you aware that even if the funds were swallowed by the government/Canadian tax payers how this pales in comparison to the, oh so wonderful indigenous child welfare support? 40 BILLION DOLLARS. Have tax payers voted on this? What do you guess they rather prefer? Well funded pension accounts by additional immigrants and cheaper products and services, financed by immigrant labor? Or paying 40 billion into a bottomless barrel for indigenous who claim on one hand that they want to be independent and at the same moment hold their hands open and never can't get enough? I am a tax payer right here right now in Canada and it upsets me how my tax payer money is used for individual groups at the expense of everyone else. Adding more case workers and immigration officers is a total no-brainer and makes total fiscal sense for Canada and all tax payers]

IRCC has had multiple issues over the past few years that have put incredible strain on the system that was already struggling with increased demand. Covid and it’s impact in Canada and outside Canada has lead to backlogs. Many Canadians who worked in embassies and consulates abroad were often sent back to Canada if there were huge outbreaks where access to medical care may not be possible due to demand. There were lockdowns in Canada and remote work is not always possible when dealing with sensitive personal information especially in cases where remote systems were not already in place. [This is ridiculous: Even defense industry employees and high tech workers and those who deal with patient sensitive medical information ALL work remotely and the information is safeguarded via security technology such as VPNs, encryption, web cams, key stroke loggers, and other monitoring devices. It is hilarious to claim that immigration applications can't be processed remotely. If that was indeed the case then let's upgrade the outdated hard- and software at IRC to bring it to international standards because others seem to be able to deal a lot better with the backlog]

Afghanistan and Ukraine has also added significant strain on the system because of the volume of applicants in a short amount of time. For many cases in Afghanistan this also involved dealing with neighbouring governments, organizing charters with IOM, etc. Roxham Rd was also reopened so there was a huge increase in asylum claims through the US. The amount of asylum seekers made the news in the US but what didn’t make the news was that a decent number continued North to Canada. Canada has continued to try to accept an ever growing number of international students which also puts strain on the system but both colleges and universities are very dependent on the fees that these students bring to the schools. Then there is both economic immigration and family sponsorship which are also very important. IRCC is dealing with the backlog of people who didn’t want to relocate during Covid or didn’t have their applications completed due to Covid. Don’t think anyone is denying that there is a huge backlog of applicants and that there are areas of the system that have been neglected compared to others but the answers are not that simple. Just hiring and training the new IRCC staff takes times. Things could certainly be done better. [Then prioritize FOR HEAVENS SAKE; students who already underwent screening and already obtained visa and paid into Canadian pockets to the tune of 21(!!!!!!) Billion dollars PER YEAR. Don't you think they should be prioritized in further visa applications over some old folks who can hardly speak the language and bring virtually zero benefit to Canadian tax payers? There should be priorities and I am happy to let refugees jump the queue but not some other individuals who benefit the country nothing over me who already works and pays taxes, pays property taxes, bought cars/trucks, boats, campers, and greatly benefits the local economy. ]

That could be said for most government systems across the world. Hopefully the government will prioritize processing the backlog of applicants before adding more economic immigrants to the system but there is also a lot of pressure to bring in immigrants working in select fields to help fill in the shortage of skills. The whole system is very complex with lots of moving parts so definitely no easy fixes unfortunately.
[There DEFINITELY are easy fixes, not all of them, but many. I just reckon that there is a combination of sheer INCOMPETENCE of decision makers and missing willpower. If you combine both you get a toxic mix of immobility and being stuck in the status quo. I come from one of the most advanced nations in Europe and worked in Japan and Hong Kong. I am shocked how incompetent many folks here are and how slow everything goes here. Its like a sleeping pill compared to the pace in Asia and Central Europe, including the UK. Of course not much can be accomplished when you task slow-working, low IQ individuals with processing applications. ]

This is not a rant but my reflection and personal experience in Canada so far. Fortunately, I did not come for the people or politics, but for the nature and I do pay my dues and I contribute to make the immediate surrounding a better place and I do adjust and adopt many local customs, though what I can't tolerate is the slow, brainless mentality that many here live by. And unfortunately this applies to many immigrants to Canada as well. The scoring and selection system is totally outdated and purely focused on numbers and getting young tax payers into the country, regardless of how lazy and dumb they are. Try to immigrate as a 40 year old, highly educated individual, both academically as well as with professional work experience, who is capable of starting a new business and hiring dozen locals: It is almost impossible unless you go through loopholes (such as getting a master's in a stem based program in BC -> receive immediate PNP -> apply for PR. ). In comparison, a young , uneducated, inexperienced individual who can spell and write gets more points than the first individual. How is this even possible...]

 

[moscatojuices]

It's not about the money for me, nor should it be for anyone else. Migrating to a new country is a serious consideration for me and coming to a new place to me means that I show respect, follow the rule of law and abide by the law and play my part in making that location a better place. I understand how Canada must apply stringent filters but coming from and having lived at several highly developed countries I decry the way immigration applications are assessed. I never compare Canada and its policies with other nations, I compare it to a high bar that Canada should set for itself. Right now it is hard to not get the impression that immigration is treated as a big money game, which it should not.

I had to wait a very long time to get my PGWP, my provincial nomination, and now PR I do not even hold my breath, if I hear back in 2023 or 2024 then I am fine. I gave up hoping for a reasonable time frame.

Finding the right application is a nightmare. I am a PGWP holder with Open Work Permit and a BC provincial nominee and applied for PR (not yet confirmed receipt of documents), my wife also holds an OWP but hers expires in December, we need to extend it. Nowhere is there a clear guideline whether it has to be her or me who needs to apply for her OWP extension/new OWP. Nowhere does it state which forms are to be filled out (is it IMM 5710 F, or something else...). As soon as it gets into the nitty gritty it gets highly confusing and opaque. Webforms to IRC are hopeless, I never got anything but canned, copy/pasted answers that hardly tangent my issue at all. Calling them? Good luck... its a very frustrating process. And I don't care how Australia or others do it...I care about fair treatment and timely processing. If they don't have enough manpower they should hire more damn immigration officers. Its really that simple. CRA can do so on a whim when they need additional staff, but immigrants always draw the short end of the stick...

Your complaints are valid except for the money game part, I agree with @canuck78 that I doubt the fees we pay cover the true processing and ongoing running costs of IRCC. I would honestly be happy if they came up with US-style tiers of processing, where by you can pay $1,365 and wait 24 months, 3x for expedited processing of 12 months. Hell I'd pay $10k if they would process it in 3-6 months.

You say you lived in several highly developed countries, where have you lived and why Canada? Just curious. Definitely not disputing that the process needs a lot of work, it takes 6 weeks to get a webform reply. That's nuts.

Lots of people who have delayed applying for citizenship for years because there was an election promise to eliminate the fee for citizenship.

That was the stupidest idea in the world. If you don't have the decency to find a pay money for Canadian citizenship after all the opportunities this country gives people, then they can go f*cking drown for all I care. Immigrants who can't or refuse to come up with $600 should be ashamed of themselves. It's such an insult - what have you been making of or doing with your life if you can't come up with a measly $600 to pay for something everyone in the world wants? There is no possible excuse for not coming up with $600 when you know you're on the verge of being eligible for citizenship

I'm now close to 40 and the one thing I've learned in my life is that the often - not always - the people who complain to be poor actually have shitloads of money hidden away. My ex-wife's entire family was like that, always complaining they have no money, but when I kicked her out of my house she was suddenly staying in hotels and flying around the world. What the fuck?

I have a 55-year old uncle in Winnipeg. Very softly spoken, keeps saying "he gets by" and "doesn't need money to be happy." BANCHODE - he has a fucking factory in India which remits him $10,000 CAD/m. He drives an audi and his rent is paid for by his wife's employer as a benefit. His fucking sons are in the U.S. making $500k+ as neurosurgeons. GETS BY ON AN AUDI AND HIS SONS' MONEY!!!!

Sorry but this shit gets me worked up - there are people who would break a limb to have a chance at coming to Canada, so when immigrants (refugees especially) come here and cry about citizenship fees, cry me a river and go back to where you came from if you think it's not worth the effort/cost.

Immigration is a huge money maker for the government. Let me enlighten you: Increased number of individuals willing to work at minimum wage at Walmart, gas stations, convenience stores. -> More tax payers, happy employers, cost kept relatively lower for goods and services -> happy citizenry -> repeat votes for this crap government -> retention of power -> free reign about financial allocations....

Then you have a constant cash flow into the pension system to finance the old folks who are not replaced by enough younger people in Canada.

I comment on specifics inline below:

I mean you literally spelled out why immigration happens.... this isn't a secret. The cost IRCC pays to process people leads to a greater supply/demand balance and continuous functioning of the tax system in Canada so that pensions can be paid, roads can be fixed etc.