Sponsorship breakdown: Need advice from Mr. Leon

[ara2015]

Hello,

My sponsored relatives ( :-[) entered Canada without my knowledge after a long absence of 4 years 10 months. They entered just before their PR was about to expire and applied/receiving welfare payment (again without my knowledge). Now I have received letters from CIC and province to repay the amount they are receiving in support. They have also lied about their financial status on the welfare application.

Isn't CBSA responsible to enforce the residency obligation requirement? Can we argue that CBSA failed to enforce the legislation and hereby I should not be responsible for these payments. Can you refer a good lawyer, if you think I need one.

Thank you

 

[Later]

Hello,

My sponsored relatives ( :-[) entered Canada without my knowledge after a long absence of 4 years 10 months. They entered just before their PR was about to expire and applied/receiving welfare payment (again without my knowledge). Now I have received letters from CIC and province to repay the amount they are receiving in support. They have also lied about their financial status on the welfare application.

Isn't CBSA responsible to enforce the residency obligation requirement? Can we argue that CBSA failed to enforce the legislation and hereby I should not be responsible for these payments. Can you refer a good lawyer, if you think I need one.

Thank you

You are financially responsible for sponsoring people who are conning the system (based on your information above that they cheated on their welfare application). Most people sponsor relatives, and then try to escape from their obligations after the fact. In this case you want to shift the onus onto the government by arguing that the CBSA should have stopped them from entering the country. It sounds like what it is: a weak excuse.

If you are so concerned about your relatives' behavior, then you should advise the welfare authorities about the deception on their welfare application. Their welfare benefits will be cut, and then you will not have to repay anything to the government.

However, it looks as if you are trying to escape your responsibility (by shifting the blame to the CBSA), while still allowing your relatives to enjoy welfare (by not reporting them to the welfare authorities).

 

[ara2015]

You are financially responsible for sponsoring people who are conning the system (based on your information above that they cheated on their welfare application). Most people sponsor relatives, and then try to escape from their obligations after the fact. In this case you want to shift the onus onto the government by arguing that the CBSA should have stopped them from entering the country. It sounds like what it is: a weak excuse.

If you are so concerned about your relatives' behavior, then you should advise the welfare authorities about the deception on their welfare application. Their welfare benefits will be cut, and then you will not have to repay anything to the government.

However, it looks as if you are trying to escape your responsibility (by shifting the blame to the CBSA), while still allowing your relatives to enjoy welfare (by not reporting them to the welfare authorities).

Please do not be so judgmental without knowing the whole truth.

You obviously misunderstood and I agree that I am at fault as I did not include enough information. The situation is quite the contrary. I have already reported this incident to CBSA (residency obligation requirement) and to the provincial welfare office. Quite frankly, provincial welfare office will not share any information with me (though I am the sponsor) due to privacy law and they directed me only to a tool free number to report the fraud (and I have already done that). And in the meantime I am taking the responsibility to pay back the amount they received.

But what I wanted to find out is the following:

(a) how effective is the reporting to CBSA and provincial welfare office of this type of incident
(b) I am assuming, if CBSA is not capable of enforcing a significant requirement (such as residency obligation), how effective they will be to investigate this incident based on a tip (and that's the only way to report to CBSA)
(c) Is there anything else I can do (even if it means that I have to hire a lawyer) personally to stop them from receiving welfare and thus ultimately free myself from the repayment obligation. ( besides CBSA and provincial welfare office doing their own investigation). I just don't want to wait for CBSA or the provincial office to continue their investigation for aeon and later realize that I could have done something else more effectively.


Thank you.

 

[Later]

Please do not be so judgmental without knowing the whole truth.

You obviously misunderstood and I agree that I am at fault as I did not include enough information. The situation is quite the contrary. I have already reported this incident to CBSA (residency obligation requirement) and to the provincial welfare office. Quite frankly, provincial welfare office will not share any information with me (though I am the sponsor) due to privacy law and they directed me only to a tool free number to report the fraud (and I have already done that). And in the meantime I am taking the responsibility to pay back the amount they received.

But what I wanted to find out is the following:

(a) how effective is the reporting to CBSA and provincial welfare office of this type of incident
(b) I am assuming, if CBSA is not capable of enforcing a significant requirement (such as residency obligation), how effective they will be to investigate this incident based on a tip (and that's the only way to report to CBSA)
(c) Is there anything else I can do (even if it means that I have to hire a lawyer) personally to stop them from receiving welfare and thus ultimately free myself from the repayment obligation. ( besides CBSA and provincial welfare office doing their own investigation). I just don't want to wait for CBSA or the provincial office to continue their investigation for aeon and later realize that I could have done something else more effectively.


Thank you.

I see. Sorry for my earlier harsh response -- I hate welfare fraud. Although it is none of my business.

Isn't it better to report the issue to the CIC as opposed to the CBSA? The CBSA only deals with border crossing issues. If they are already within Canada, then it is an issue for the CIC.

With regards to the rest of your case (how you can avoid having to repay your relatives welfare aid), perhaps others on the board have had similar experiences and can advise you on what to do. Either way, you should consult with a lawyer to get the best recommendation on your unique circumstances.

 

[scylla]

I highly doubt CBSA/CIC will take action. As of now, they are still permanent residents - their status in Canada is perfectly legal/valid - so from CBSA's perspective there will be nothing to investigate. If they live in Canada for two straight years (now that they've returned to Canada), then will be able to renew their PR cards without any issues.

The provincial welfare office will take action if they are receiving welfare but shouldn't be (i.e. if they have sources of income they haven't declared and have misrepresented their financial status to the provincial welfare office and are therefore receiving welfare fraudulently).

If they are receiving welfare fraudulently - definitely report them. Failing that, any chance of reconciling and convincing them to stop taking welfare?

Otherwise I think you're out of luck and are legally on the hook for the bill.

 

[ara2015]

I highly doubt CBSA/CIC will take action. As of now, they are still permanent residents - their status in Canada is perfectly legal/valid - so from CBSA's perspective there will be nothing to investigate. If they live in Canada for two straight years (now that they've returned to Canada), then will be able to renew their PR cards without any issues.

The provincial welfare office will take action if they are receiving welfare but shouldn't be (i.e. if they have sources of income they haven't declared and have misrepresented their financial status to the provincial welfare office and are therefore receiving welfare fraudulently).

If they are receiving welfare fraudulently - definitely report them. Failing that, any chance of reconciling and convincing them to stop taking welfare?

Otherwise I think you're out of luck and are legally on the hook for the bill.

I know for sure that their PR is now expired and they should not be able to renew it for another two years.
Does that change anything?


Thank you.

 

[scylla]

I know for sure that their PR is now expired and they should not be able to renew it for another two years.
Does that change anything?


Thank you.

I don't think that changes anything. They are still permanent residents with valid status in Canada. The fact their PR cards are expired doesn't change that. And assuming they remain in Canada for two years without leaving, they will be able to renew their PR cards without issue.

 

[Msafiri]

Hello,

My sponsored relatives ( :-[) entered Canada without my knowledge after a long absence of 4 years 10 months. They entered just before their PR was about to expire and applied/receiving welfare payment (again without my knowledge). Now I have received letters from CIC and province to repay the amount they are receiving in support. They have also lied about their financial status on the welfare application.

Isn't CBSA responsible to enforce the residency obligation requirement? Can we argue that CBSA failed to enforce the legislation and hereby I should not be responsible for these payments. Can you refer a good lawyer, if you think I need one.

Thank you

1. What relatives are they - spouse/children etc?
2. What date did you sponsor them?
3. What date did they land in Canada?
4. Do you have documentary proof of their absence from Canada?
5. Do you have documentary proof of their true financial status showing ineligibility for welfare?
6. What benefit are they actually receiving?
7. Have you maintained ties since their landing date such as joint financial accounts/ leases/ addresses etc?
8. What's your province of residence?

As per legislation once you sign the sponsorship forms you are on the hook for any welfare paid out - doesn't matter if your relationship as it has in this case goes sour. The taxpayer shouldn't foot the bill is the rationale. If as your strategy is to get them off welfare then unless there is documentary proof presenting a case for fraud it won't work. Likewise unless they say apply for PR Cards and the residency issue comes up CIC won't go chasing up PRs in the country on the say so of some one that they are in breach of their residency days.

However if they become inadmissible while in Canada say criminality or it can be proven they lied at the border when returning its a different case. However read this forum and see how many people return to Canada almost at the end of the validity on their PR Card and get in without any problem - it seems many CBSA agents let people slide by.....once you are in then a decent lawyer could argue CBSA by not reporting you de-facto considered any residence breach and disregarded it.

 

[Leon]

I see this post has my name on it but I don't have much to add. This is obviously not a spouse because a spouses sponsorship obligation would be done with after 3 years. It could possibly be parents or other relative + their immediate family sponsored under the one other relative clause. Unfortunately, sponsorship obligation for other than spouse is 10 years so that's a long time to be paying for their welfare. I remember a lady on a news program saying that her husband had left her as soon as she had sponsored him. He first applied for welfare, then for disability. She had to pay it all back. She asked about the nature of his disability because as far as she knew he didn't have any and she was told that it was none of her business.

If you want to try to get out of this, see a lawyer and ask what you can do. Is it possible that your relatives lied about something when they applied for their PR? If they did, that would be misrepresentation and would be a chance to get their PR revoked.

You say they did not meet the residency requirements and you have reported that to CBSA and the welfare office. I don't think there is anything more you can do there.

Have you reported to the welfare office that they lied about their finances?

If you do see a lawyer, ask him about the legality of hiring a private investigator. A private investigator may be able to find out things about their finances and what they are doing. Maybe they are working under the table while taking welfare benefits. Maybe they are healthy while claiming to welfare that they have health problems. However, ask a lawyer about this first. I am not certain about the legality of hiring someone to spy on your relatives.