Sponsoring spouse and dependent children

[sameer49]

I returned to canada on expired PR card and staying here since past 1 year, still I don't meet residency obligation, my wife lives in india her PR card expired and she also don't meet residency obligation.
I want her to renounce her PR and I want to sponsor her , my question is can I sponsor if i don't meet residency obligation? When I submit application to sponsor her, will IRCC lookup for my Risidency obligation will procesed to revoke my PR status since I don't meet RO?

 

[scylla]

I returned to canada on expired PR card and staying here since past 1 year, still I don't meet residency obligation, my wife lives in india her PR card expired and she also don't meet residency obligation.
I want her to renounce her PR and I want to sponsor her , my question is can I sponsor if i don't meet residency obligation? When I submit application to sponsor her, will IRCC lookup for my Risidency obligation will procesed to revoke my PR status since I don't meet RO?

She can renounce her PR status and you can sponsor her, but not until you meet the residency obligation. So you cannot submit the application until you are in compliance with RO. Yes, IRCC will look up your status and could move to revoke PR if you do not meet RO. You have to wait

 

[sameer49]

Thank you for prompt reply, one of immigration Lawyer has wronlgy told me that I can sponsor even if I don't meet the RO. only PR status matter and IRCC will not verify my RO during sponsorship process.

 

[armoured]

Thank you for prompt reply, one of immigration Lawyer has wronlgy told me that I can sponsor even if I don't meet the RO. only PR status matter and IRCC will not verify my RO during sponsorship process.

I don't think the answer is as clear-cut on either side of this discussion.

But to take a step back: have you considered having your wife simply apply for a PRTD? Or returning through USA land border if she can?

There is at least some chance it would just be approved / she'd be admitted, in which case there are some inconveniences - health card, etc - but PR status would be safe, and no need to renounce/be sponsored. If approved under H&C (which she can and should request even if thin, one argument being to join her family - you), then she could apply for a card renewal early.

If it's refused - well, then, you would be back where you are now.

 

[armoured]

I returned to canada on expired PR card and staying here since past 1 year, still I don't meet residency obligation, my wife lives in india her PR card expired and she also don't meet residency obligation.
I want her to renounce her PR and I want to sponsor her , my question is can I sponsor if i don't meet residency obligation? When I submit application to sponsor her, will IRCC lookup for my Risidency obligation will procesed to revoke my PR status since I don't meet RO?

Follow-up question of importance: the thread title you made refers to dependent children, but you don't further mention them.

Are there dependent children? Is it correct to assume they are not PRs?

[If so I now understand your point above, you want your spouse to come with the children and sponsor her plus your children as dependants.]

 

[sameer49]

Follow-up question of importance: the thread title you made refers to dependent children, but you don't further mention them.

Are there dependent children? Is it correct to assume they are not PRs?

[If so I now understand your point above, you want your spouse to come with the children and sponsor her plus your children as dependants.]

 

[sameer49]

Yes, I have 3 dependent children under 20 yrs age, 2 of them have PR (expired) and one is not having PR as he born after we returned to canada, my wife serious health condition was the primary reason we stayed back in india hence we landed in this unfortunate situation.
me and one of my kid returned to canada last year and now I want rest of them to joined us in canada, since they were refused US visa, they only have :-
option1 to apply for PRTD ( H&C) , I have prepared a case with all the facts
Option 2 : I sponsor them from canada, after they renounce PR, but issue is with my RO.

One of lawyer advise me to go with option 2 , he informed me tht option 1 is sure shot rejection as IRCC rarely consider H&C for PRTD.( ALSO visa expired almost 10 years back)

But in this group I came to know even option 2 is having risk of my PR getting revoked!! so now I am confused, I can't wait another 1 year as my wife is unable to manage kids alone due to her health etc. Also my other kid in canada is having difficult staying without mother

 

[Ponga]

Thank you for prompt reply, one of immigration Lawyer has wronlgy told me that I can sponsor even if I don't meet the RO. only PR status matter and IRCC will not verify my RO during sponsorship process.

The vast majority of threads/posts in the forums on this site, asking this question, are answered with "wait until the sponsor is in compliance with their own R.O.".

Here's a similar question, with the same advise:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmigrationCanada/comments/14zpctf
It would be great is someone could clarify this once and for all, but...who?

 

[canuck78]

Yes, I have 3 dependent children under 20 yrs age, 2 of them have PR (expired) and one is not having PR as he born after we returned to canada, my wife serious health condition was the primary reason we stayed back in india hence we landed in this unfortunate situation.
me and one of my kid returned to canada last year and now I want rest of them to joined us in canada, since they were refused US visa, they only have :-
option1 to apply for PRTD ( H&C) , I have prepared a case with all the facts
Option 2 : I sponsor them from canada, after they renounce PR, but issue is with my RO.

One of lawyer advise me to go with option 2 , he informed me tht option 1 is sure shot rejection as IRCC rarely consider H&C for PRTD.( ALSO visa expired almost 10 years back)

But in this group I came to know even option 2 is having risk of my PR getting revoked!! so now I am confused, I can't wait another 1 year as my wife is unable to manage kids alone due to her health etc. Also my other kid in canada is having difficult staying without mother

No guarantee that you won’t run into issues. Your family’s immigration histories are very complex which may lead an VO to look at the case a little more which may lead to seeing that you are not compliant with your RO. In general if you manage to cross the land border with no issues you want to avoid interaction with IRCC. How much time have you spent in Canada not including the past year? When did your PR cards expire?

 

[armoured]

One of lawyer advise me to go with option 2 , he informed me tht option 1 is sure shot rejection as IRCC rarely consider H&C for PRTD.( ALSO visa expired almost 10 years back)

If your wife is rejected for PRTD, the only serious consequence is that she would lose her PR status, BUT can be sponsored by you in future with no issues.

I therefore see no serious issue with this. If she gets rejected, you then apply to sponsor her (preferably after you are compliant with the RO).

Again: if she loses PR status by PRTD rejection or by renunciation, same thing - no different impact on spousal sposnorship.

Whereas: if your spouse and the other child get the PRTD, then you at least have some options, and it's even possible you'd get a TRV for the youngest child.

But in this group I came to know even option 2 is having risk of my PR getting revoked!! so now I am confused, I can't wait another 1 year as my wife is unable to manage kids alone due to her health etc.

I echo the point made by @canuck78 above - your case seems quite complex as you are basically saying you and your family have been out of Canada for more than ten years (pls clarify if not).

I think the situation is not so clear as to say that you will face issues - it is not certain.

BUT: given that there are five of you, one of whom does not even have PR status, the consequences of what would happen if some issues did arise are serious, even severe. If you were to lose PR status, that could mean effectively that none of you could remain in Canada, or only an older child, with likely zero prospects of sponsoring the others.

Whereas if you remain until you are in compliance with the RO, then you can sponsor any / all members of your family in turn.

Now, maybe they don't do anything, and they just process it in normal timeframe. Or maybe they sit on it and delay until you are compliant with the RO yourself. No-one knows.

It's only a matter of risk and consequences. Your decision. You chose to leave, it seems, ten plus years ago, and not return until a year ago - that was also a risk but you got extremely lucky (IMO) in that they admitted you.

 

[sameer49]

If your wife is rejected for PRTD, the only serious consequence is that she would lose her PR status, BUT can be sponsored by you in future with no issues.

I therefore see no serious issue with this. If she gets rejected, you then apply to sponsor her (preferably after you are compliant with the RO).

Again: if she loses PR status by PRTD rejection or by renunciation, same thing - no different impact on spousal sposnorship.

Whereas: if your spouse and the other child get the PRTD, then you at least have some options, and it's even possible you'd get a TRV for the youngest child.



I echo the point made by @canuck78 above - your case seems quite complex as you are basically saying you and your family have been out of Canada for more than ten years (pls clarify if not).

I think the situation is not so clear as to say that you will face issues - it is not certain.

BUT: given that there are five of you, one of whom does not even have PR status, the consequences of what would happen if some issues did arise are serious, even severe. If you were to lose PR status, that could mean effectively that none of you could remain in Canada, or only an older child, with likely zero prospects of sponsoring the others.

Whereas if you remain until you are in compliance with the RO, then you can sponsor any / all members of your family in turn.

Now, maybe they don't do anything, and they just process it in normal timeframe. Or maybe they sit on it and delay until you are compliant with the RO yourself. No-one knows.

It's only a matter of risk and consequences. Your decision. You chose to leave, it seems, ten plus years ago, and not return until a year ago - that was also a risk but you got extremely lucky (IMO) in that they admitted you.

 

[sameer49]

Thank you @canuck78 and @armoured
I will apply for PRTD for my wife and other kid, instead of sponsoring, but everyone clarification here in the forum, is it normal for IRCC to check for RO compliance when someone sponsoring?

 

[armoured]

Thank you @canuck78 and @armoured
I will apply for PRTD for my wife and other kid, instead of sponsoring, but everyone clarification here in the forum, is it normal for IRCC to check for RO compliance when someone sponsoring?

I believe they at minimum check to see if the spnsor appears to be resident in Canada and if any flags or comments about RO compliance on file. I would assume - in your case - that your entry to Canada a year ago resulted in some kind of flag or comment that you were out of compliance at that time - and that for whatever reason they decided not to start the formal RO non-compliance reporting process (known as the 44(1) report and which can ultimately result in loss of PR status). You would know if a 44(1) report had been issued, you would not necessarily know about a note to file.

In somewhat simplified form, they have to check whether a sponsor is inadmissible. A PR who is just out of compliance is not inadmissible (yet), but if examined, can be reported and declared inadmissible. By applying to sponsor, you are (effectively) presenting yourself for examination. (Caveat here that I think this is a fair summary, but I'm not sure how precisely accurate on details).

I know that a sponsorship must be suspended if a 44(1) report for non-compliance is brought, and if PR status is revoked (i.e. the PR is now inadmissible), denied. The 44(1) report is what can be filed if non-compliant with RO; as with your case at the border, it sometimes is not done, or opened and then dropped - effectively they choose not to proceed with this (for whatever reason, including simply not seeing it as a priority at the time).

Now this is the part to which we do not know the answer (at least I do not): how carefully do they check for non-compliance? Do they tend to report those out of compliance? Is it then reviewed and formally lead to the revocation of PR status (after notification and appeal, if any)?

I think it is fair to say that, as at the border, they do not open the 44(1) process when they believe it has little likelihood of resulting in revocation. But they have another tool, which is 'wait and see' - make a note to check again later and if the sponsor is now in compliance, THEN go ahead. After all, they must suspend processing if they issue a 44(1), but if they think it's going to eventually be dropped (not approved by senior officers) or certain to lose on appeal, well, why do all that paperwork? "Wait and see" is more efficient. (This could well result in revocation of the PR status of sponsor if the sponsor then leaves Canada - but by the mechanism of examination at port of entry).

My impression is that in some cases they do not check in detail RO compliance (where sponsor clearly resident in Canada and eg no notes to file or reason to believe out of compliance). For cases where non-compliance is minimal, they probably don't bother with any of this - by the time they get through admin procedures, sponsor would be compliant already. And that for cases where it's possibly significant but sponsor would be compliant before very long, do the 'wait and see' approach.

Now, again, we do not know, but likely some of the time they do actually start this 44(1) report process, and likely in some cases it does actually proceed. We just don't know how many or what is the trigger for them to go ahead with that.

Most likely - in my guess - is that they simply delay them most of the time, except for egregious cases, and hence filing before being in or (very) close to compliance is pointless: both a waste of time and potentially risky (even if that risk may not be very high, it is non-zero).

Hope this helps.

 

[sameer49]

I believe they at minimum check to see if the spnsor appears to be resident in Canada and if any flags or comments about RO compliance on file. I would assume - in your case - that your entry to Canada a year ago resulted in some kind of flag or comment that you were out of compliance at that time - and that for whatever reason they decided not to start the formal RO non-compliance reporting process (known as the 44(1) report and which can ultimately result in loss of PR status). You would know if a 44(1) report had been issued, you would not necessarily know about a note to file.

In somewhat simplified form, they have to check whether a sponsor is inadmissible. A PR who is just out of compliance is not inadmissible (yet), but if examined, can be reported and declared inadmissible. By applying to sponsor, you are (effectively) presenting yourself for examination. (Caveat here that I think this is a fair summary, but I'm not sure how precisely accurate on details).

I know that a sponsorship must be suspended if a 44(1) report for non-compliance is brought, and if PR status is revoked (i.e. the PR is now inadmissible), denied. The 44(1) report is what can be filed if non-compliant with RO; as with your case at the border, it sometimes is not done, or opened and then dropped - effectively they choose not to proceed with this (for whatever reason, including simply not seeing it as a priority at the time).

Now this is the part to which we do not know the answer (at least I do not): how carefully do they check for non-compliance? Do they tend to report those out of compliance? Is it then reviewed and formally lead to the revocation of PR status (after notification and appeal, if any)?

I think it is fair to say that, as at the border, they do not open the 44(1) process when they believe it has little likelihood of resulting in revocation. But they have another tool, which is 'wait and see' - make a note to check again later and if the sponsor is now in compliance, THEN go ahead. After all, they must suspend processing if they issue a 44(1), but if they think it's going to eventually be dropped (not approved by senior officers) or certain to lose on appeal, well, why do all that paperwork? "Wait and see" is more efficient. (This could well result in revocation of the PR status of sponsor if the sponsor then leaves Canada - but by the mechanism of examination at port of entry).

My impression is that in some cases they do not check in detail RO compliance (where sponsor clearly resident in Canada and eg no notes to file or reason to believe out of compliance). For cases where non-compliance is minimal, they probably don't bother with any of this - by the time they get through admin procedures, sponsor would be compliant already. And that for cases where it's possibly significant but sponsor would be compliant before very long, do the 'wait and see' approach.

Now, again, we do not know, but likely some of the time they do actually start this 44(1) report process, and likely in some cases it does actually proceed. We just don't know how many or what is the trigger for them to go ahead with that.

Most likely - in my guess - is that they simply delay them most of the time, except for egregious cases, and hence filing before being in or (very) close to compliance is pointless: both a waste of time and potentially risky (even if that risk may not be very high, it is non-zero).

Hope this helps.

 

[sameer49]

Thank you @armoured for details amd valuable response, this will help me and other members
Thank you very much