Special case of "living with Canadian citizen abroad"

[barabashka_]

Hi everyone,
I wonder if someone can advise on the following situation.
We (me and my spouse) have arrived to Canada in May 2007 as foreign workers, got our PR and landed in July 2010. Since then we live in Canada (although with frequent short trips abroad).
I have recently accepted a job offer in a third country (not our home country) and will be moving there in June 2012. I will be short of about 100 days for residency obligation of 730 days when I move there in June 2012. I will fulfill these remaining 100 days before the 5 years deadline by coming back to Canada for vacations.
Our plan is that my spouse will stay in Canada one more year until he can apply for citizenship (about June 2013 if he doesn't travel too much). After that he will join me abroad.
Our hope is that he will get his citizenship on or before July 2015. Once he is citizen, I understand I can keep my PR while we are living together abroad.
I have the following questions/concerns:

1. In the case that he gets his citizenship later for whatever reason, lets say even somewhere in 2016, I will be short of the 730 days in the rolling 5 years period for some months...what if I don't travel back to Canada until I have again 730 days (including period living with him after he becomes citizen), and only travel when I do have these 730 days – is it OK? My card might be expired, but then I just get travel document once I have my 730 days, right?
2. In general, how "toxic" is this situation? I will be moving abroad first, he will be joining me later. Moreover, he will be in this third country on a dependent visa...it will be very clear "who is accompanying whom" in our case...

I really want to keep my PR status...I am moving abroad not from a choice, I just cannot find a position in my field in Canada for so long time, and my career is stuck...I will be trying to come back to Canada before July 2015, but what if I still will not be able to find a job until that time.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Leon]

I have heard of cases where they have gone into detail about who was accompanying whom but in most cases they don't. They will only look at the 5 year period before you apply for the travel document. If you meet the requirements in that 5 year period because of Canadian husband living with you, you should get it.

Worst case scenario, lets say they make a big deal about your husband accompanying you and not vice versa and you lose your PR, you husband can always sponsor you for PR again.

 

[barabashka_]

Many thanks Leon.
I guess it is probably going to be alright at the end, but certainly I will have few stressful years before I return to Canada.

 

[YorkFactory]

I have heard of cases where they have gone into detail about who was accompanying whom

There is zero distinction between Alice accompanying Bob abroad and Bob accompanying Alice abroad. The only decision I saw where the IRB made this distinction was almost certainly wrong in law (it has never been cited as precedent, and probably would have been overturned on appeal to an actual court), but there was no point in appealing further because the IRB also decided to allow the appeal on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

CIC's ENF 23 manual (section 7.5 on page 18) says: "In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose. In other words,...as long as a permanent resident is accompanying a Canadian citizen, the intent and purpose of their absences are not relevant as the residency obligation is met."

 

[barabashka_]

Thank you so much for the information, friends!
The last thing I want is to lose my PR while chasing my career ambitions.
Having a career but staying without a place I can call home would be rather unfortunate.

 

[toby]

I have heard of cases where they have gone into detail about who was accompanying whom but in most cases they don't. They will only look at the 5 year period before you apply for the travel document. If you meet the requirements in that 5 year period because of Canadian husband living with you, you should get it.

Worst case scenario, lets say they make a big deal about your husband accompanying you and not vice versa and you lose your PR, you husband can always sponsor you for PR again.

I believe that was only one case, Leon, where the judge worried about whether the PR was accompanying the Canadian spouse. In several other cases the judges ruled that it didn't matter; as long as the PR and Canadian spouse were together, those days counted toward the PR quota. In fact, this latter point is now written in the relevant Operational Manual. I wrote about this about a year ago; it could be found by using the search feature, I suppose.

I could look it up if someone is interested and can't find my post.