sorry to have to post on a sensitive subject

[fredcracklin]

Hello,

I am sorry to have to ask this, I know it is going to rub many the wrong way. I only ask that if you don't have information that is helpful, to please try and curb any condemnations of me.

I am a Canadian citizen by birth, and have been with my current wife (a South Korean national) for well over 6 years now. We have known each other since about 2007, but didn't date until 2009, and got married just recently on Dec 7, 2015.

From 2011 until October 2015 (4.5 years) we lived in a conjugal partnership in London UK. Previous to that, I had lived in South Korea from 2002-2011. We are back in South Korea now, only to visit, and plan to move to Canada on Feb. 22, 2016. I would like to act as sponsor for my wife's permanent residence.

However in July 2014, I was arrested for having downloaded indecent images of minors. I was given a 7 month suspended (non-custodial) sentence, and 8 months probation.

From the moment police entered our flat, to the last time I shook hands with my probation officer, I was forthcoming, honest, and remorseful about what I had done. I was never suspected of any so-called "contact crimes" (I had lived in Korea and taught kids for 9 years, absolutely without incident, and the London police are aware of this), and I have never so much as had thoughts about attempting to obtain such images since. I do not want to excuse my behavior as anything other than disgusting, but for me viewing these images was not a compulsion, it was an indulgence. I naively and stupidly thought I was "under the radar" as I never purchased anything, never contacted any minors over social media etc., and never actively traded this stuff with anyone else.

After probation was finished and we were ready to leave the UK, I had one final consultation with the Police, and the officer in charge cleared me for travel without any problems.

I am positive I can get a letter from my probation officer in London stating he is satisfied I have successfully completed my period of probation and that I pose a very low risk of re-offending. Moreover, I have the continued support of my wife (who was at the time my partner) as well as a dozen or so letters of support from my friends and other flatmates from London and abroad, which the judge read at my sentencing hearing. I was very lucky that I was quickly able to get my life back together, and not suffer any loss of love from those near to me. Perhaps undeserving--trust me when I say I took none of the ordeal lightly.

I have been in touch with a lawyer, and I will quote his response:

Thank you for your detailed email outlining your future plans for Canada and the issues which may cause some concern for your sponsorship.

It is possible for you to make the application and provide an abundance of evidence and information regarding your remorse and rehabilitation.

The fact is that you have to regard the application as a two-step process whereby you may very well be refused by the immigration officer in the first instance, but set up your application in a manner allowing you to appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division based on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

You must apply through the outside of Canada avenue and not the inside Canada avenue in order to assure yourself of an appeal procedure.

I do suggest that you call my office and set up an appointment for us speak so you can fully understand the procedures to follow.

I will be available in the first week of January. The cost of the consultation is $375.

Is this sound advice?

Is it true that an appeal can only be guaranteed if I apply from outside Canada, and if so, do I mail the application directly to Mississauga, or would I be better off sending to the nearest embassy (which is in Manila--Seoul closed their immigration office about 4 years ago)?

Would I stand a chance applying for this without a lawyer representing me?

In the guide, the section pertaining to Question 14 of form 5481 states that one "may not" be eligible to sponsor if convicted of a crime of a sexual nature. Am I correct in interpreting this as "possibly not" rather than "definitely not"?

Thanks for reading, and I know some of you must be offended by reading this, but I am trying to be as genuine as possible. I am only hoping someone might have some answers. I guess this situation is rather unique in that my crime occurred outside Canada, and I have been an expat for many years--therefore definitive information is hard to come by online.

Sincerely,
FC

 

[Rob_TO]

Yes it sounds like the lawyer is giving sound advice. Due to your crime, you "may" not be eligible for sponsorship under the "offense of a sexual nature" point in qualifying as a sponsor. I'm not sure the specifics to what exact crimes this refers to though.

And yes there is no appeal process with an inland app. You must submit an OUTLAND app under the assumption your initial application will be refused due to being found ineligible to sponsor, so you will then need to go the H&C/appeals route.

You will definitely need a good immigration lawyer throughout the process, I would not recommend you try this on your own.

For outland apps, they are mailed first to CPC-Mississauga where the sponsor evaluation is done first. Once sponsor part is done, CPC-M would then mail the app to the outland visa office (for Koreans the office is in Manila). Even if you are found ineligible to sponsor, you can choose to have the app continue to the outland office. This is where you will really need your lawyer to guide you on your best chance to succeed.
Outland app package is here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/fc.asp
Note also that your partner can "visit" Canada while the outland PR app is processing.

 

[Turbo2000]

From my knowledge, you should be eligible to sponsor...it's is more problematic when it concerns the applicant. (sponsored person).

Other experienced members can elucidate on this.

Yes, your lawyer is correct. Only out land application can be appealed in case of refusal. Inland application cannot.

All applications are sent to CIC Mississauga, after the 1st stage of sponsorship approval, CIC now sends it to the visa office of the applicant.

Of course, you can successfully sponsor your spouse without the services of a lawyer.

You will find useful information on this forum for people with similar cases.

Furthermore, you will need to convince CIC that you will be living permanently in Canada once her PR is granted.

But make sure you explain everything as you did here.

Good luck !

Hello,

I am sorry to have to ask this, I know it is going to rub many the wrong way. I only ask that if you don't have information that is helpful, to please try and curb any condemnations of me.

I am a Canadian citizen by birth, and have been with my current wife (a South Korean national) for well over 6 years now. We have known each other since about 2007, but didn't date until 2009, and got married just recently on Dec 7, 2015.

From 2011 until October 2015 (4.5 years) we lived in a conjugal partnership in London UK. Previous to that, I had lived in South Korea from 2002-2011. We are back in South Korea now, only to visit, and plan to move to Canada on Feb. 22, 2016. I would like to act as sponsor for my wife's permanent residence.

However in July 2014, I was arrested for having downloaded indecent images of minors. I was given a 7 month suspended (non-custodial) sentence, and 8 months probation.

From the moment police entered our flat, to the last time I shook hands with my probation officer, I was forthcoming, honest, and remorseful about what I had done. I was never suspected of any so-called "contact crimes" (I had lived in Korea and taught kids for 9 years, absolutely without incident, and the London police are aware of this), and I have never so much as had thoughts about attempting to obtain such images since. I do not want to excuse my behavior as anything other than disgusting, but for me viewing these images was not a compulsion, it was an indulgence. I naively and stupidly thought I was "under the radar" as I never purchased anything, never contacted any minors over social media etc., and never actively traded this stuff with anyone else.

After probation was finished and we were ready to leave the UK, I had one final consultation with the Police, and the officer in charge cleared me for travel without any problems.

I am positive I can get a letter from my probation officer in London stating he is satisfied I have successfully completed my period of probation and that I pose a very low risk of re-offending. Moreover, I have the continued support of my wife (who was at the time my partner) as well as a dozen or so letters of support from my friends and other flatmates from London and abroad, which the judge read at my sentencing hearing. I was very lucky that I was quickly able to get my life back together, and not suffer any loss of love from those near to me. Perhaps undeserving--trust me when I say I took none of the ordeal lightly.

I have been in touch with a lawyer, and I will quote his response:

Is this sound advice?

Is it true that an appeal can only be guaranteed if I apply from outside Canada, and if so, do I mail the application directly to Mississauga, or would I be better off sending to the nearest embassy (which is in Manila--Seoul closed their immigration office about 4 years ago)?

Would I stand a chance applying for this without a lawyer representing me?

In the guide, the section pertaining to Question 14 of form 5481 states that one "may not" be eligible to sponsor if convicted of a crime of a sexual nature. Am I correct in interpreting this as "possibly not" rather than "definitely not"?

Thanks for reading, and I know some of you must be offended by reading this, but I am trying to be as genuine as possible. I am only hoping someone might have some answers. I guess this situation is rather unique in that my crime occurred outside Canada, and I have been an expat for many years--therefore definitive information is hard to come by online.

Sincerely,
FC

 

[Rob_TO]

From my knowledge, you should be eligible to sponsor...it's is more problematic when it concerns the applicant. (sponsored person).

No, CIC is quite clear on this when it comes to the Sponsor: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse-apply-who.asp
You may not be eligible to be a sponsor if you:
were convicted of
-an offence of a sexual nature,
-a violent crime,
-an offence against a relative that resulted in bodily harm or
-an attempt or threat to commit any such offences...

When it comes to ineligibility issues, going through a good lawyer is highly recommended.

 

[fredcracklin]

Thank you both. However with an outland app, do we not both have to remain outside Canada until at least sponsorship evaluation is done? I have heard this can take 6+ months, and with the complications in my situation, I am assuming it could be longer? We already have tickets for Feb. 22.

 

[Rob_TO]

Thank you both. However with an outland app, do we not both have to remain outside Canada until at least sponsorship evaluation is done? I have heard this can take 6+ months, and with the complications in my situation, I am assuming it could be longer? We already have tickets for Feb. 22.

No, "outland" pretty much just means the visa office processing the applicant will be outside Canada (in your wife's case Manila). If the applicant or Canadian citizen sponsor is in or out of Canada, is completely irrelevant to CIC processing the outland app.

Typically the sponsor part (stage 1 in CPC-M) is 2 months. In your case, I would expect it to take much longer due to CIC investigating your criminal history.

If you have submitted the ouland app to CPC-M before Feb 22, just bring proof of it (like your payment receipt) that your wife can show CBSA. Typically they are pretty easy on visitors who already have PR apps in progress and just want to wait out the process in Canada.

 

[fruitball4u]

Thank you both. However with an outland app, do we not both have to remain outside Canada until at least sponsorship evaluation is done? I have heard this can take 6+ months, and with the complications in my situation, I am assuming it could be longer? We already have tickets for Feb. 22.

An "outland" application does not refer to where you live. It refers to the office where your application is being processed.

For example, I am a US citizen who has been living in Canada for the past two and a half years. I applied outland while living in Canada (and just received my PR last week).

What worries me is that you technically aren't allowed to "reside" in Canada as a visitor, so if your wife plans to move here in February, she may have troubles at the border.

She would need to get a visitor permit, which she could then apply to have extended while she waits on her permanent residency.

Someone else may be better suited to give advice on what to say at the border - she shouldn't lie and say that she's only visiting if she plans on living, but there may be a way to delicately word it in order to satisfy an immigration lawyer.

For what it's worth, you sound like a genuine person who made a terrible mistake. I wish you luck in your endeavours and hope that you and your wife are able to end up where you want.

 

[fredcracklin]

No, "outland" pretty much just means the visa office processing the applicant will be outside Canada (in your wife's case Manila). If the applicant or Canadian citizen sponsor is in or out of Canada, is completely irrelevant to CIC processing the outland app.

Typically the sponsor part (stage 1 in CPC-M) is 2 months. In your case, I would expect it to take much longer due to CIC investigating your criminal history.

If you have submitted the ouland app to CPC-M before Feb 22, just bring proof of it (like your payment receipt) that your wife can show CBSA. Typically they are pretty easy on visitors who already have PR apps in progress and just want to wait out the process in Canada.

Thank you, Rob_TO. So basically, get the entire application done and sent before leaving Korea, and then CPC-M will send the rest to Manila at a later date? I am reading conflicting stories about inland vs. outland. Will an outland application not cost my wife her right to stay with me in Canada? I understand she cannot work, which is fine, but will she eventually be forced to leave Canada until a decision is made?

 

[fredcracklin]

For example, I am a US citizen who has been living in Canada for the past two and a half years. I applied outland while living in Canada (and just received my PR last week).

Congratulations! What was the total time it took from start to finish?

What worries me is that you technically aren't allowed to "reside" in Canada as a visitor, so if your wife plans to move here in February, she may have troubles at the border.

She would need to get a visitor permit, which she could then apply to have extended while she waits on her permanent residency.

Exactly my fear as well. Is it more or less simple to do something like this in these situations?

 

[fredcracklin]

Well here is something I missed the first few times I read the guide:

If you answer “Yes” to any question between 5 and 15
You are not eligible to be a sponsor. You should not submit an application.
If you are sponsoring a parent or grandparent, this does not apply to you.

So I should throw in the towel?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thank you, Rob_TO. So basically, get the entire application done and sent before leaving Korea, and then CPC-M will send the rest to Manila at a later date? I am reading conflicting stories about inland vs. outland. Will an outland application not cost my wife her right to stay with me in Canada? I understand she cannot work, which is fine, but will she eventually be forced to leave Canada until a decision is made?

No, as I stated she can stay as a VISITOR in Canada while an outland app is being processed. When coming into Canada she needs to act like a visitor, which means having a return ticket dated for 6 months or less later, luggage suitable for a visitor, and not using the words "move" or "live" when it comes to reasons for entering Canada. She is "visiting" while her PR app is processing.

Visa-exempt visitors usually get automatic 6-months status upon entry, and then can apply to renew that status as it expires.

So I should throw in the towel?

You need to follow the advice of your lawyer. Yes you will most likely be rejected as a sponsor initially, however as I mentioned you can then choose to have your application forwarded to Manila anyways for continued processing. You will need to expect an eventual rejection of the app due to your ineligibility, after which you'll appeal with your lawyer based on H&C considerations.
Whether you are successful of not will depend on your specific case and how good your lawyer is. There is no guarantee of success, but others have overcome ineligibility issues to sponsor their spouses before. Just be prepared that it may take a very long time (ignore all the usual times for PR processing as yours is a completely unique case) and money in lawyer fees. You may want to read the appeals thread here also to see what others have gone through. Not sure how different the whole process is when sponsor is rejected as opposed to the applicant.

 

[fruitball4u]

Congratulations! What was the total time it took from start to finish?

My application was received May 21, 2015 and I got my COPR in the mail on December 21, 2015. So pretty much exactly seven months from start to finish. We had a very straight forward application. No prior marriages or sponsorships, no criminal records, no children, etc. I'd assume it may take a bit longer for applicants with any of those issues.

 

[scylla]

Well here is something I missed the first few times I read the guide:



So I should throw in the towel?

No - you can still apply. However you may be refused as a sponsor in which case the appeal process would kick in. As others have said, you need to be working with a very good lawyer.