Should residency obligations be stricter?

[MNM2015]

I've been following this forum for a few months now and it surprises me how many Canadian PR's are living outside of Canada for extended periods of time. I've read many posts whereby a new PR comes to Canada for a few days or weeks to activate their PR status and then returns home or to another country. I understand it is often necessary to return home to prepare to move to Canada but this should take months not years to do. Many of these people seem to be getting their PR status to either:

-keep the option of moving to Canada open in the future
-give birth in Canada so their children will be Canadian
-use our healthcare system and other benefits to their advantage
-make visiting Canada easy

I understand the residency obligation is only 2 years out of 5 (and sounds like there are even loopholes to get around this sometimes). I guess it just surprises me that someone could come to Canada for a couple of days, never set foot in Canada for another 3 years and still be considered a Canadian permanent resident. Wouldn't it make sense to tighten this up, especially for the initial 5 years after residency is granted, to ensure our limited immigration resources are directed at people who actually intend to live in Canada? These applications are taking time and space in the quotas away from people who actually want to live in Canada. If the residency obligations were stricter, people who don't intend to move to Canada would be less likely to waste their time and money applying for PR.

I know this is off topic for this section but was curious what some of the senior members here thought as well as other people who are sponsoring family members with the intention of living in Canada.

 

[mikeymyke]

A lot of people do use Canadian permanent residency, unfortunately, as a glorified visitor visa. I've heard things like the weather is not great here, not wanting to learn English or integrate into Canadian society, but wanting the benefits like of course, the health care system. I think it should be tightened up a bit, but at the same time, some people do have valid reasons for living abroad such as an important job (which they eventually have to pay tax to Canada anyway)

 

[Aquakitty]

Honestly I was wondering that myself. There are a ton of appeals on CANlII.org involving RO obligations. It's strange to me that someone would go through all the stress, time and money to gain their PR then disappear back to their home country for years. Some of these people spend only weeks in Canada and have all sorts of excuses. I mean, what did they think was going to happen when they got PR.... Why even bother appealing? Is it just their retirement plan?

But yea, over all, I think Canada is too slack on the RO. Look at the reqs for the US, you have to live there for 6 months of EVERY year I believe. Maybe they could have some system whereby those who stay in Canada and actually participate in society can get citizenship faster. The citizenship rule they changed is very strict, which is fine, but for someone like my spouse who's lived in Canada for 10 years, he still has to wait another 6 years to get it. How bout if you live in Canada for 4 years straight, you can qualify for citizenship? That might encourage more people to actually integrate into Canadian society.

 

[mikeymyke]

Also, I don't know if this applies to other provinces, but in Alberta, one will lose their provincial health coverage if they are away for more than 6 months in a 12 month period.

 

[singviet]

I've read many posts whereby a new PR comes to Canada for a few days or weeks to activate their PR status and then returns home or to another country.

Is this actually possible? I thought once you land it can take months to get the PR card.

Asking because we would love the option of coming to Canada for a few weeks, then returning to our current country to tie up the loose ends, finish my work contract, apartment lease etc. with proper notice rather than a rushed international move.

 

[truesmile]

Yes, it's possible. So long as you have someone to send your PR card to you once it arrives, (it can only be sent to a Canadian address).

 

[Ponga]

There have been at least a couple of cases where a PR was living abroad with their spouse/sponsor and ran into some trouble (although I've not heard of anyone losing PR because of this). Apparently the PR was the one facilitating the move `back home' and the Canadian citizen spouse was `coming along'. In THIS case, there should be something that CIC could do to change the rules.

IMO, it should not be the PR that wants to move abroad and still have those days count towards the RO.

 

[rambopg]

Agreed, I have seen tons of people who abuse the system. And a great point is that if you remove all those PR applicants who don't plan on living in Canada right away, you will free up the resources to do genuine family class and other applications FASTER.

 

[phamhainguyen68]

Is this actually possible? I thought once you land it can take months to get the PR card.

Asking because we would love the option of coming to Canada for a few weeks, then returning to our current country to tie up the loose ends, finish my work contract, apartment lease etc. with proper notice rather than a rushed international move.

Hi singviet,

I have done that actually. But I waited until I got the PR card, before flying back to home country to settle everything. And, as far as I understand, as long as you have an mail address in Canada, you can ask anyone to pick the mail up for you, then send you the PR card inside that mail.

Hope the information would help you.

 

[truesmile]

There have been at least a couple of cases where a PR was living abroad with their spouse/sponsor and ran into some trouble (although I've not heard of anyone losing PR because of this). Apparently the PR was the one facilitating the move `back home' and the Canadian citizen spouse was `coming along'. In THIS case, there should be something that CIC could do to change the rules.

IMO, it should not be the PR that wants to move abroad and still have those days count towards the RO.

I wonder what sort of trouble that could have been. Rules are rules, and this one is black and white. If your Canadian citizen spouse is with you . . . the time counts towards your PR RO, period!

IMO, that would seriously choke up the system. "Hey Charles, come in here for a minute. I've got a case here and I can't figure out which spouse is the one that wants to move. (Charles): Hmmm, tough one, let me call Barry in too. (Barry): Yeah that is a tough one, lets get the whole department in here and break into groups."

I agree in principle however, they could make it three years out of five instead of only two.

 

[rsk8]

I understand the residency obligation is only 2 years out of 5 (and sounds like there are even loopholes to get around this sometimes).
I guess it just surprises me that someone could come to Canada for a couple of days, never set foot in Canada for another 3 years and still be considered a Canadian permanent resident.

AWESOME POST! 8) i agree completely! couple of faraway family friends' spouses dont even wanna come live here cause they're "settled" there...its causing delays for people that actually wanna come here & build a life here; yes thankfully my husband's of that cult
u know ppl that dont care to start from scratch & would happy to be in a better place with their loved ones. but yeah as mentioned above..their wives visit them every so often, get pregnant, come back, have a kid, & live life here just cause they can.
like wth!
& the guys have no intention of even at least trying to live here.
it's like they wanna try out how this works, meh, doesnt work out we got out getaway ticket to PK. & then when their parents are old they'l expect sponsoring to adhere to their health needs. pssht complete BS. i just hate those people mang!

coming to my question, can u explain to me what u mean when u say "the residency obligation is only 2 years out of 5"

IMO, it should not be the PR that wants to move abroad and still have those days count towards the RO.

from the very little info i have, i guess the loophole MNM2015 is talking about is that let's say some PR comes in & stays for 6 months & leaves the country for a few months...once they're back they'll take in account counting from 6 months twds the "residency obligation" so these people are getting away with not even living in CDA & still reaping the fruits.

not sure if im right, i'd really like some insights about how much time does the PR need to stay & what does that does to their status after that period.
referring to: residency obligation is only 2 years out of 5
*what does the 5 mean here etc?

& woah i know this post is long; great many people actually think like this. i just cudnt resist agreeing & ranting on

 

[Rob_TO]

Look at the reqs for the US, you have to live there for 6 months of EVERY year I believe.

It's actually more strict then that: https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/maintaining-permanent-residence
Abandoning Permanent Resident Status
You may also lose your permanent resident status by intentionally abandoning it. You may be found to have abandoned your status if you:
-Move to another country, intending to live there permanently.
-Remain outside of the United States for an extended period of time, unless you intended this to be a temporary absence

Basically the US is able to revoke your green card status at their discretion regardless of actual time spent outside the US, if they feel you no longer intend to reside permanently in the US. Being away 6+ months per year probably creates an automatic trigger, but even staying within that time doesn't seem to give any certainty of maintaining your green card. Not sure how these practices are enforced in real life.

 

[CDNPR2014]

referring to: residency obligation is only 2 years out of 5
*what does the 5 mean here etc?

five means 5 years after landing as a PR (and probably subsequently every 5 years). so if you landed March 22 2016, then you must be living in canada at least 2 years between march 22 2016 and march 22, 2021. i *think* they have to be consecutive too, i'm not sure if you can do 6 months every year for 4 years so that it equals 2 years. though i don't know for sure and that actually may be a possibility.

 

[rsk8]

Agreed, I have seen tons of people who abuse the system. And a great point is that if you remove all those PR applicants who don't plan on living in Canada right away, you will free up the resources to do genuine family class and other applications FASTER.

O LORT MY POINT EXACTLYYYYY! jeez! hate those people yo. & esp typical pakistanis who afterwards just want their old parents to come here & like someone mentioned earlier just revert to CDA as their luxury retirement resort. *severe eye roll emoji unavailable, but insert please*

 

[rsk8]

five means 5 years after landing as a PR (and probably subsequently every 5 years). so if you landed March 22 2016, then you must be living in canada at least 2 years between march 22 2016 and march 22, 2021.

so at least 2 years or all 5, let's say which ever...what does that do to the PR now? i.e. can apply for citizenship now? (cause they already have a PR card so they're PR already)