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Should i apply once i meet the basic residence and not physical presence

mazmax

Member
Apr 20, 2013
14
0
Thanks “thecoolguysam”
infect I am going out of country for 6 weeks in the beginning of March, its Bill C24 which is creating all the anxiety, but I will follow your advise, I will prepare the application and will ask my Son to post it on March 15,

You asked about her status prior to PR;
She entered Canada on “temporary Resident Visa” on May 19, 2009, we maintained her temporary Resident status while processing her PR, she was granted PR on June 14, 2012,

She did not leave Canada in that processing period, ( I mean from May 19, 2009 till June 14, 2012)
She traveled on Sept 25, 2012 till Dec 28, 2012 (94 Days only) this is the only and one trip she traveled outside Canada.

Thanks Again,
 

thecoolguysam

VIP Member
May 25, 2011
4,821
382
Canada
mazmax said:
Thanks “thecoolguysam”
infect I am going out of country for 6 weeks in the beginning of March, its Bill C24 which is creating all the anxiety, but I will follow your advise, I will prepare the application and will ask my Son to post it on March 15,

You asked about her status prior to PR;
She entered Canada on “temporary Resident Visa” on May 19, 2009, we maintained her temporary Resident status while processing her PR, she was granted PR on June 14, 2012,

She did not leave Canada in that processing period, ( I mean from May 19, 2009 till June 14, 2012)
She traveled on Sept 25, 2012 till Dec 28, 2012 (94 Days only) this is the only and one trip she traveled outside Canada.

Thanks Again,
Please remember the 4 years before signing the application would be considered for residency requirement.
Also as long as her status was legal in Canada as a temporary resident, she would be fine.

Here is another link for calculation form, if you would like to try it by manually entering the dates to be sure:


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0407E.pdf


If you are really worried about bill C-24 coming into effect then you can give 1-10 days of buffer. Please note, its your personal discretion to allow buffer or not.
I wish you good luck for your mother's citizenship application.
 

mazmax

Member
Apr 20, 2013
14
0
Great, Thanks for the link thecoolguysam, this form had given me precise idea how they are counting days before and after PR,

I have run 3 different dates and I notice (see the result below) if I sign application on 30th March instead of March 1st, it adds up only 15 more days in Basic and as well as in Physical presence,

Now, I don’t know what is more important, is it Basic residence ? or physical Presence ?

In all these calculations I got Basic Residence 1225 to 1240 days (far less than 1460)
&
Physical presence in between 1131 to 1146 days, (more than 1095)

Seeking your opinion again,

Thanks for your time and sorry if I am bugging,

Here are the Calculations;

Application date: March 1, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1225
Physical presence (days): 1131

Application date: March 15, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1232
Physical presence (days): 1138

Application date: March 30, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1240
Physical presence (days): 1146
 

thecoolguysam

VIP Member
May 25, 2011
4,821
382
Canada
mazmax said:
Great, Thanks for the link thecoolguysam, this form had given me precise idea how they are counting days before and after PR,

I have run 3 different dates and I notice (see the result below) if I sign application on 30th March instead of March 1st, it adds up only 15 more days in Basic and as well as in Physical presence,

Now, I don't know what is more important, is it Basic residence ? or physical Presence ?

In all these calculations I got Basic Residence 1225 to 1240 days (far less than 1460)
&
Physical presence in between 1131 to 1146 days, (more than 1095)

Seeking your opinion again,

Thanks for your time and sorry if I am bugging,

Here are the Calculations;

Application date: March 1, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1225
Physical presence (days): 1131

Application date: March 15, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1232
Physical presence (days): 1138

Application date: March 30, 2015
Basic residence (days): 1240
Physical presence (days): 1146
Please read the following:

Basic residence in Canada is the minimum time required to be eligible for a grant of citizenship (1,095 days). The calculation of basic residence does not include absences from Canada. However, any time spent serving a sentence in Canada must be deducted from the calculation of basic residence. If you apply with fewer than three (3) years (1,095 days) of basic residence, your application will be returned to you by the Case Processing Centre in Sydney, Nova Scotia (CPC Sydney).

Basic residence taking into account time spent serving a sentence (or basic residence less time served) is calculated by subtracting time spent serving a sentence in Canada (i.e. time spent in a prison, penitentiary, jail, reformatory, under a conditional sentence, on probation, and/or parole) from basic residence. Section 21 of the Citizenship Act states that any time spent imprisoned, on probation or on parole cannot be counted as a period of residence for the purpose of acquiring citizenship (please see Question 12 for exceptions). Your application will be refused if after examination of your court documents, it is determined that you have fewer than 1,095 days of basic residence less time served.

Physical presence in Canada is the amount of time you have lived in Canada within the relevant four-year period, minus time spent serving a sentence, and minus the days you have been physically absent from Canada. If you have fewer than three (3) years (1,095 days) of physical presence but at least three (3) years of basic residence less time served, the citizenship judge will evaluate the nature of your residence in Canada. However, your application will take longer to process and may be refused.


In short, you need to have 1095 days of basic and 1095 days of physical presence in past 4 years. So if you are signing on 15th March 2015 then 4 years prior to 15th March 2015 would be considered for residency requirement. 1/2 day would be counted for the days spent before becoming PR and 1 day would be counted after becoming PR.

Please read the following link thoroughly:

https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq


Once the new C-24 4/6 rule applies then you have to show 1460 days in past 6 years and the person has to stay atleast 183 days every year in Canada.

Here is the link:
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=832219

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=859509
 

mazmax

Member
Apr 20, 2013
14
0
I think I will take a chance on March 15, 2015, I know we still have to depend on credit for time in Canada prior to landing.

Thanks & keep up the good work, it Helps
 

thecoolguysam

VIP Member
May 25, 2011
4,821
382
Canada
mazmax said:
I think I will take a chance on March 15, 2015, I know we still have to depend on credit for time in Canada prior to landing.

Thanks & keep up the good work, it Helps
48 days of buffer is a lot of buffer. Which means physical presence on 15th March would be 1138 days whereas you actually need minimum of 1095 days, thus 1138-1095 = 43 which is a good buffer.

So there is nothing to worry about it. Cheers and best of luck!

It important that the application date used in the calculation and the date of signature on the application form and the calculation printout be the same which would be 15th March 2015.

As per your discretion you can apply anytime after 16th Feb 2015 onwards to have a good buffer
 

dumdumhogayamein

Champion Member
Oct 6, 2012
1,076
35
Ottawa
Category........
Visa Office......
CIC Mississauga - Sponsorship / IRCC Delhi - Spousal Immigration
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
18-07-2016
AOR Received.
AOR 1: 10-08-2016; AOR 2: 31-08-2016
File Transfer...
09-10-2016
Med's Request
Pre-Medical
Med's Done....
01-06-2016
Interview........
TBD
Passport Req..
21-03-2017
VISA ISSUED...
TBD
LANDED..........
TBD
Hello folks,

Just wanted to update you with my case. I got the letter to take the Citizenship test on Dec 4th 2015. After i passed the test i have received the Residence Questionnaire.....

Good luck to you all. and will keep u posted of my next steps.

Regards
 

nope

Hero Member
Oct 3, 2015
302
52
I'm sorry to hear that -- you've gone onto a track that is going to take a lot of time. Either you withdraw your application, and apply again with a status that makes it more likely that you get an RQ, or you go through the process you're in now, are denied, and apply again with a status that makes it more likely that you get an RQ. In both scenarios, you spend extra money and waste time.

I'm curious, I don't mean the question sardonically -- why did you go through this route, after the detailed analysis that suggested it was a waste of time? Or alternatively, why did you ask for advice when you were determined to go this route?
 

dumdumhogayamein

Champion Member
Oct 6, 2012
1,076
35
Ottawa
Category........
Visa Office......
CIC Mississauga - Sponsorship / IRCC Delhi - Spousal Immigration
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
18-07-2016
AOR Received.
AOR 1: 10-08-2016; AOR 2: 31-08-2016
File Transfer...
09-10-2016
Med's Request
Pre-Medical
Med's Done....
01-06-2016
Interview........
TBD
Passport Req..
21-03-2017
VISA ISSUED...
TBD
LANDED..........
TBD
Thanks nope for your response and comments. I had asked for an opinion of the masses to understand if someone had a similar case like mine. I did what i felt was important to me and frankly didn't want to wait another two years to apply. If for any reason, the route which i have taken, takes longer than usual or resolves sooner than i expect, atleast i don't have to feel bad about it as it was my undertaking.

No one here works for CIC and i respect every ones opinion but its just their opinion, we are just sharing our experiences so that the new folks on this thread can get some experience from our routes/paths which we have chosen. Since there wasn't anyone who had a similar case to mine or even if they had and chose to be a silent member atleast the newer folks can get some light from my experience.

Hopefully all works well from me and everyone here on this thread and good luck to all of us. :)

Regards and Best wishes
 

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
I am waiting for almost 5 months for CJ hearing after passing the test. My RQ was before test.
How many less days than 1095 of physical presence have u applied with?
I Applied in May 13 and test aug 15 with self declared less num of days.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,328
3,086
Short version:

Justice Barnes recently issued a decision (dated in September but just recently published) which affirms a Citizenship Judge's grant of approval to a shortfall applicant who relied on pre-landing credit.

See the decision in the Nena Felicilda Ampo case by Justice Barnes.



Long version:

Never say never.

This inherently self-contradictory imperative is perhaps among the most widely understood and agreed upon adages, despite being logically non-sense (as it is self-contradictory).

It really only means that there is always the potential for an exception to even the most definitive statement.

I never agreed with the widely offered proposition that shortfall applications were doomed, guaranteed to be denied. I did agree that shortfall cases had become increasingly problematic, increasingly at risk of a denial, and the larger the shortfall the more so. In contrast, indeed, over time and until now, there continues to be at least a trickle of reports of successful shortfall applications, shortfall applicants taking the oath.

But there was one type of shortfall case for which I suggested the odds are so against, that there was at best only the most remote chance of success, and that is the shortfall case also relying on credit for time in Canada prior to landing. In many years of following reports in multiple forums, and following virtually every published Federal Court decision regarding a citizenship application, I can recall only one report of success in the forums (subject, of course, to all the relevant caveats about the trustworthiness of reports in forums like this), and in the published Federal Court decisions only one instance in which a Citizenship Judge had approved a shortfall applicant who also relied on pre-landing credit . . . regarding the latter, the Minister's appeal was granted, so the approval by the CJ was set aside, and the case went back to another decision-maker, ultimate outcome unknown. Thus, no official cases reflecting the grant of citizenship to any shortfall applicant relying on pre-landing credit.

Until now.


Reminder:

There is no longer any question about applying with less than the threshold number of days physically present specified in the Citizenship Act. Applicants now are simply not eligible for a grant of citizenship if they fall short of the current requirements. But prior to June 11, 2015, many PRs did elect to apply for citizenship, based on the old requirements pursuant to which they would be eligible despite falling short of 1095 days actual physical presence, subject to a Citizenship Judge deciding whether or not they nonetheless were resident-in-Canada for three years and thus also qualified for citizenship.

Thus, it is now a matter of who did apply with a shortfall, and how is that working out.

As I noted, I gave virtually no chance of success for a shortfall application which also depended on credit for pre-landing time. But, never say never, so I did not suggest there was no chance at all, just such a poor chance it was practically equivalent to no chance. Like buying a ticket in the U.S. big powerball lottery. Well, actually a better chance than that, a lot better chance (chances of any given ticket being the winner in the U.S. powerball is now approaching one in three million) . . . and there are literally many, many millions of people buying that chance. It is not as if we are a rational species (more like the most sophisticated and pervasive form of locust nature has to date produced).

So while my sense is that the OP did not gamble so much, applying with a significant shortfall and (as I understand it) relying on a substantial amount of credit for time in Canada prior to becoming a PR, but wasted time and money pursuing what is pretty much a lost cause. Better odds than a buying a ticket for the U.S. powerball lottery, but a much, much higher cost.

Despite the decision in the Nena Felicilda Ampo case by Justice Barnes, which dismisses the Minister's appeal of a CJ decision which, indeed, did approve a shortfall applicant who relied on pre-landing credit, my appraisal of the OP's odds is mostly the same, not good, no where near reason for much hope.

That said, the case does offer a glimmer of more hope than what any reasonable person would have had before seeing this decision.

While it was a shortfall, it was a shortfall by just TWO days.

That said, there were other issues, in particular some conflict regarding what the evidence was before the CJ. The Minister advocating the failure of the CJ to include photocopies of certain evidence in the Certified Tribunal Record as warranting an inference that evidence was not actually presented or did not support the decision made.

I do not know what the shortfall is in the OP's case. If it is minimal, and the OP has a strong case showing both the extent of actual presence nearly meeting the threshold, and of establishing and maintaining residence in Canada, and that the OP's life was centralized in Canada, this decision in the Nena Felicilda Ampo case by Justice Barnes does offer some hope, some chance of success.

If the shortfall is significant, say more than thirty days for example, and the OP is in fact relying on pre-landing credit, exerting much effort let alone spending money to continue pursuing it seems a waste . . . but of course it is already in process, and riding it out is perhaps not a problem, no major inconvenience, so how much effort, time, or money to invest going forward is a personal decision. A negative outcome will not have any detrimental impact on the OP, so there is no big reason to give it up now.

Again, though, the subject about whether to apply with a shortfall is now moot. Either those PRs who might have did so, before June 11, 2015, or they did not. For those who did, the cards are dealt and just need to be read.