Seniors Advice - Technical situation

[lanzie]

Hi there,

I am already in process with my application(AOR stage) however due to the technical nature of the scenario that I'm about to describe below I am seeking seniors advice on how to proceed if necessary.

I have worked seasonally and consecutively for the last four years to acquire the mandatory 24 months work experience( under the old rules). In the initial stages of my job I worked in a position for two and a half months before being promoted to a position in NOC B category( also required by CEC). After being promoted I approached my employer inquiring about what changes if any I would have to make to my existing work permit at that time to reflect my new position. I was basically ignored, accordingly I finished my first season with my work permit and LMO reflecting my old job title rather than that of my new promotion. In my job duties and description from my employer that I submitted with my application, my first two and half months before my promotion was not included. I did not think it was necessary because it was not relevant to the required job title and work experience. My first is question was I correct to assume this would not have any hindrance on my application?

Secondly since my employer refused to change my LMO, which in turn as a result prohibited any changes to my work permit in that first year, do you think this would affect my application in any way? Basically 5 months out of my 24 months work experience (although I was promoted) was still under the work permit with my old job title before my promotion.

Thirdly does the new 12 months work experience rule apply to my situation even though I applied and received my AOR before it was implemented, or will my application still be based on the 24 months work experience criteria?

I know this is a very technical scenario and I tried my best to explain as best as possible..hopefully this is understood.

All advice and comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jsm0085]

Hi there,

I am already in process with my application(AOR stage) however due to the technical nature of the scenario that I'm about to describe below I am seeking seniors advice on how to proceed if necessary.

I have worked seasonally and consecutively for the last four years to acquire the mandatory 24 months work experience( under the old rules). In the initial stages of my job I worked in a position for two and a half months before being promoted to a position in NOC B category( also required by CEC). After being promoted I approached my employer inquiring about what changes if any I would have to make to my existing work permit at that time to reflect my new position. I was basically ignored, accordingly I finished my first season with my work permit and LMO reflecting my old job title rather than that of my new promotion. In my job duties and description from my employer that I submitted with my application, my first two and half months before my promotion was not included. I did not think it was necessary because it was not relevant to the required job title and work experience. My first is question was I correct to assume this would not have any hindrance on my application?

No. You were required to document your work experience within Canada over the last three years.

Secondly since my employer refused to change my LMO, which in turn as a result prohibited any changes to my work permit in that first year, do you think this would affect my application in any way? Basically 5 months out of my 24 months work experience (although I was promoted) was still under the work permit with my old job title before my promotion.

Yes. If you have applied as a more skilled worker than what your work permit was for, there is a good chance cic will reject your application.

Thirdly does the new 12 months work experience rule apply to my situation even though I applied and received my AOR before it was implemented, or will my application still be based on the 24 months work experience criteria?

It's based on the time prior to your application. Your new experience would only count with a new application. However all the information you have provided will now be on the system. Technically the work you have mentioned was authorized - that's a big no no and may possibly cause you major problems.

I'd suggest you speak with an immigration lawyer.

I know this is a very technical scenario and I tried my best to explain as best as possible..hopefully this is understood.

All advice and comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[lanzie]

Thank you for your response.

If I can provide documentation from my employer of my promotion, do you think this would help my situation? Technically I did all I could to ensure all that I would not encounter any issues, however my employer would not re-apply for a new LMO and without that I could not get a new work permit.

 

[mydandelions]

hi lanzie!

i see your situation like this (but please correct me if i'm wrong for this is just my opinion)...

you submitted your application for CEC under the OLD rules. meaning, 24 months of skilled work experience was required. no exceptions here. if you are claiming 24 months skilled work experience, you should be able to prove that. now, if you are saying that you got promoted in a sense that you are doing the job without a valid and authorized work permit and the officer realizes it, i don't think this will count.

you should also have mentioned in your application what was your job on that certain period as all experiences, skilled or not, should be detailed and accounted for.

as for the letter of reference you want to ask your employer again, you can try but better not hope too much just in case you wouldn't get an answer in your favor.

good luck.

 

[lanzie]

hi lanzie!

i see your situation like this (but please correct me if i'm wrong for this is just my opinion)... Thanks so much for the response, your opinion is useful.


you submitted your application for CEC under the OLD rules. meaning, 24 months of skilled work experience was required. no exceptions here. if you are claiming 24 months skilled work experience, you should be able to prove that. now, if you are saying that you got promoted in a sense that you are doing the job without a valid and authorized work permit and the officer realizes it, i don't think this will count.
The fact of this very touchy and unfortunate matter is that my employer placed me in a very precarious position by not requesting a new LMO. I sent everything one could possible think of to reflect my job even pay slips(although optional) which detailed my job title during this period in the first year..it sucks that I will most likely get penalized for something that was beyond my control. How do workplaces like this NOT have audits and get away with such things is beyond my comprehension.

you should also have mentioned in your application what was your job on that certain period as all experiences, skilled or not, should be detailed and accounted for. Unfortunately I miss understood this


as for the letter of reference you want to ask your employer again, you can try but better not hope too much just in case you wouldn't get an answer in your favor. Regarding the reference letter it will be a copy of an internal promotion document which indicated the title change , change in pay and effective date.



good luck. once again thank you

 

[CEC2013]

Check this out..

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/june-2012-applications-t107340.0.html;msg2091093#msg2091093

Specifically: "It states: You have been authorized to work in Canada in as a Quality Assurance Analyst, NOC 2171, a Skill Level A occupation. You are not authorized to work as an Information systems testing technician, NOC 2283, a Skill Level B occupation."

If you were not authorized to work in your newly promoted role, it will most likely not count. This rejection above was the most recent, which demonstrates CIC's firm stance on work permit authorizations. Perhaps you could inquire with an immigration lawyer or consultant, and maybe they provide you with useful advice on how to approach this. Sad to say, but this is quite the predicament.

Good luck to you though!

 

[jes_ON]

Thirdly does the new 12 months work experience rule apply to my situation even though I applied and received my AOR before it was implemented, or will my application still be based on the 24 months work experience criteria?

No, your application is subject to the rules in effect at the time your application was received by CIC. It sounds like your initial work permit was for an unskilled position, but you mentioned that you were working for the past 4 years - does this mean that the employment under discussion was more than 3 years old at the time you applied?

In any case, it is possible that the VO will overlook that, but if not - as long as you are not accused of misrepresentation, you can reapply under the new rules...

 

[lanzie]

I am not sure if I quite understand what you are referring to with respects to the employment being more than three years old . I worked with the company from 2009-2012. I applied for CEC in Oct 2012. So from what I think you are asking then the answer to your question would be no. The promotion took place about 2.5 months after I commenced in 2009. Hence I have like about 5months work experience in my promotion under the work permit of an unskilled job code. ( hope this clarifies) I also submitted all pay slips dating back to 2009, contracts as well as work permits(yes optional) however documents will reflect my title with my Employer, esp the contracts signed off by said employer.

It just seems that I am the subject of negligence from my Employers end, further placed in the most precarious position when said employer did not update their LMO in an effort to make it possible for a new work permit with the correct title. I don't see why I would even be considered to have misrepresented when clearly this is a situation I had no control of, especially as I provided numerous documents to support my job title agreed by both myself and employer.

Thanks again for your comment..I appreciate all feedback in this very frustrating matter.

No, your application is subject to the rules in effect at the time your application was received by CIC. It sounds like your initial work permit was for an unskilled position, but you mentioned that you were working for the past 4 years - does this mean that the employment under discussion was more than 3 years old at the time you applied?

In any case, it is possible that the VO will overlook that, but if not - as long as you are not accused of misrepresentation, you can reapply under the new rules...

 

[jes_ON]

It just seems that I am the subject of negligence from my Employers end, further placed in the most precarious position when said employer did not update their LMO in an effort to make it possible for a new work permit with the correct title. I don't see why I would even be considered to have misrepresented when clearly this is a situation I had no control of, especially as I provided numerous documents to support my job title agreed by both myself and employer.

I appreciate your frustration and hope it works out for you, but I am sorry - I completely reject your statement that you had "no control." I don't know if your employer was abusive or just ignorant, but you weren't. You knew you needed a new LMO and new work permit. You are NOT a slave, and I'd have more sympathy if you took responsibility for your own role in this situation.

Your work permit is not issued to your employer, it is issued to YOU, and it is your responsibility to comply with its terms. What you did is little different than working with no work permit. If your work permit expired and your employer said, "please continue working for me illegally, I'll give you a promotion," would you take it? If you say yes, then you only have yourself to blame.

 

[lanzie]

All pieces of the puzzle were not shared on the forum for several reasons. My work permits were NOT done my myself individually because of a contractual agreement between the government of my home town, Canada and said employer. I guess if I were in your shoes reading all the above details I would have these thoughts as well but definitely not formulate the opinion that no responsibility was taken.

Sympathy would not solve this process, only a feasible solution.!

I appreciate your frustration and hope it works out for you, but I am sorry - I completely reject your statement that you had "no control." I don't know if your employer was abusive or just ignorant, but you weren't. You knew you needed a new LMO and new work permit. You are NOT a slave, and I'd have more sympathy if you took responsibility for your own role in this situation.

Your work permit is not issued to your employer, it is issued to YOU, and it is your responsibility to comply with its terms. What you did is little different than working with no work permit. If your work permit expired and your employer said, "please continue working for me illegally, I'll give you a promotion," would you take it? If you say yes, then you only have yourself to blame.

 

[jsm0085]

All pieces of the puzzle were not shared on the forum for several reasons. My work permits were NOT done my myself individually because of a contractual agreement between the government of my home town, Canada and said employer. I guess if I were in your shoes reading all the above details I would have these thoughts as well but definitely not formulate the opinion that no responsibility was taken.

Sympathy would not solve this process, only a feasible solution.!

I'm sorry you are in this position but I agree with Jes. No matter what excuses you use, the work permit was issued to you. The work permit was put in your passport and outlines the terms of your employment.

You are looking for a solution that doesn't exist. The advice given above outlines clearly what position you are in.

 

[lanzie]

Thanks to you all for the responses. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[SenoritaBella]

Some parts are still unclear:

If you were issued a 3 year permit for skilled work and did 5 months of unskilled work initially(which you have not included in your application), perhaps the visa officer will not notice.

If the 3 year permit was issued initially for unskilled work, and you spent over 2 yrs working in a skilled position without the required change to your work permit, that's a bigger problem. The LMO confirmation # is on the permit and if the officer looks it up, he/she may notice the discrepancy.

Note that the charge of misrepresentation can be applied whether you did it intentionally or by mistake.

I sympathise with you because I know that feeling of helplessness; when you rely on and trust those in position of authority to do their job, the right thing, etc and they fail you or worse, their actions put you in a precarious position. This may turn out to be an expensive lesson for you but if you learn from it, you will do better in the future for sure.
It's also important to acknowledge your own part in this mess -you could have quit the job or reported them to your home gov't and you didn't perhaps because of fear or may be you didn't want to lose your job, etc. Hope everything works out well for you no matter what happens with this application.

 

[lanzie]

My work permits were issued on a 6-8months basis from 2009-2012 based on my seasonal position.( although I was a guaranteed returning employee , the company was not interested in acquiring longer LMO and work permits, quite senseless)

My initial work permit from 2009 was 7 months, for a low skilled position in the first 2.5 months I worked in a low skilled position before being promoted to a skilled position.

Regarding the discrepancy I did report it to my government office and nothing was done..the levels of this situation run very deep and unfortunately I just cannot go into any more details regarding the relationship between my government and my former workplace.

Thanks for your concern and response.

Some parts are still unclear:

If you were issued a 3 year permit for skilled work and did 5 months of unskilled work initially(which you have not included in your application), perhaps the visa officer will not notice.

If the 3 year permit was issued initially for unskilled work, and you spent over 2 yrs working in a skilled position without the required change to your work permit, that's a bigger problem. The LMO confirmation # is on the permit and if the officer looks it up, he/she may notice the discrepancy.

Note that the charge of misrepresentation can be applied whether you did it intentionally or by mistake.

I sympathise with you because I know that feeling of helplessness; when you rely on and trust those in position of authority to do their job, the right thing, etc and they fail you or worse, their actions put you in a precarious position. This may turn out to be an expensive lesson for you but if you learn from it, you will do better in the future for sure.
It's also important to acknowledge your own part in this mess -you could have quit the job or reported them to your home gov't and you didn't perhaps because of fear or may be you didn't want to lose your job, etc. Hope everything works out well for you no matter what happens with this application.

 

[jsm0085]

My work permits were issued on a 6-8months basis from 2009-2012 based on my seasonal position.( although I was a guaranteed returning employee , the company was not interested in acquiring longer LMO and work permits, quite senseless)

My initial work permit from 2009 was 7 months, for a low skilled position in the first 2.5 months I worked in a low skilled position before being promoted to a skilled position.

Regarding the discrepancy I did report it to my government office and nothing was done..the levels of this situation run very deep and unfortunately I just cannot go into any more details regarding the relationship between my government and my former workplace.

Thanks for your concern and response.

Discrepancy? Why report it to your country when the issue was in Canada?