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Sending PR card outside Canada

faisal892

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Hi,

I will land in Canada in mid march and will be back to my home country after three weeks. My cousin who is living in Toronto will receive my PR card and will courier it to me. I want to know whether it is legal because I have heard from somebody that it is illegal to courier PR card out of Canada. Please if any body could advise.

Faisal
 

scylla

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You've already asked this question several times before and it has already been answered.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/returning-from-canada-without-pr-card-t257128.0.html;msg3803908#msg3803908

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/returning-from-canada-without-pr-card-t255833.0.html;msg3795678#msg3795678
 

faisal892

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Hi Scyllia,

I asked again because I read some where that it is illegal to send PR card through courier. I thought the rules may have changed. Therefore, thought to check again. Any way, thanks.

Faisal
 

Rano2013

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Sep 20, 2013
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Yes he can. I landed in Toronto in Jan 2013, and gave them my cousin's address in Montreal where they sent my PR and my kid's PR. Then he sent me the PR via DHL to Dubai without any problem.
 

faisal892

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scylla said:
You've already asked this question several times before and it has already been answered.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/returning-from-canada-without-pr-card-t257128.0.html;msg3803908#msg3803908

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/returning-from-canada-without-pr-card-t255833.0.html;msg3795678#msg3795678
Hi,

Please let me know your thoughts regarding this. http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=351&expID=120082&qID=4932127

Faisal
 

Rano2013

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Sep 20, 2013
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faisal892 said:
Hi,

Please let me know your thoughts regarding this. http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=351&expID=120082&qID=4932127

Faisal

I've ALREADY REPLIED, and this was my personal experience. It is OK TO SEND it.
 

Rob_TO

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faisal892 said:
Hi,

Please let me know your thoughts regarding this. http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=351&expID=120082&qID=4932127

Faisal
That "consultant" doesn't know what he's talking about.

For anyone that tells you it's illegal, simply ask them to show you the specific law or rule from CIC that states this is illegal. They will not be able to, because such a rule does not exist.
 

CanV

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faisal892 said:
Hi,

Please let me know your thoughts regarding this. http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=351&expID=120082&qID=4932127

Faisal
Just because the guy is a lawyer and has his contact info and membership number below whatever he said doesnt make him an expert, more like a bad expert.
 

eileenf

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I once forgot my PR card when traveling to the USA and had my father-in-law Fed-Ex it. No problem.
 

realtexdex

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Mar 7, 2012
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That is a gray area, but most people do it. There really isn't any rule that prevents them from sending it, but i am pretty sure CIC frowns on the practice.
 

Rob_TO

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realtexdex said:
That is a gray area, but most people do it. There really isn't any rule that prevents them from sending it, but i am pretty sure CIC frowns on the practice.
Can you provide any wording from any CIC document, manual or rule book, that suggests this?

If not, then CIC has no feeling one way or the other. It would be the same as mailing any other document like health card, license, passport, etc outside of Canada.
 

dpenabill

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faisal892 said:
I will land in Canada in mid march and will be back to my home country after three weeks. My cousin who is living in Toronto will receive my PR card and will courier it to me. I want to know whether it is legal because I have heard from somebody that it is illegal to courier PR card out of Canada. Please if any body could advise.

Faisal
I have little doubt that for many, if not most destination countries, the practice of having a trusted family member or friend receive the PR card in the mail (in Canada of course) and then using a trusted delivery service (brand courier service probably better than ordinary mail) to forward the PR card abroad, is OK.

I do not share, however, the view this is definitely sanctioned, and indeed I believe there are some countries for which this is risky and probably illegal.

So, sure, probably OK.

But . . .


The longer explanation:

As some others have similarly indicated, I likewise know of no Canadian law, regulation, rule, or policy which prohibits the private mailing of a Permanent Resident card.

That said, while I have done a lot of research into many aspects of what is prescribed by IRPA, I am no expert, and in particular I am no expert on Canada's import/export laws, regulations, or rules. I can say, though, it does not appear that Canada prohibits sending PR cards via private mail. Even if it is restricted or prohibited (in provisions other than IRPA for example), there is no obvious enforcement of any such restrictions, and as many anecdotal reports indicate, many do this without encountering any problems.

Caution regarding anecdotal reports of this sort: Just because a hundred (even a thousand) people report doing something without encountering a problem does not mean it is not in some way restricted, or even prohibited. Only experiences corroborated by and consistent with known regulatory context are at all a reliable indicator of what is lawful.

That is, just because it is easy to do something (have more than a few drinks and drive home for example; pad business expense deductions in a tax return) without encountering a legal problem, can be as much about how easy it is to get away it, not so much about whether it is lawful.



A gray area?

I suspect some others say this is a "gray" area because there are other considerations, including the laws of the country into which something is mailed, also including provisions governing the possession and use of PR cards, including provisions governing the use of undisclosed representatives, as well as provisions governing the veracity of information given to CIC (such as the address where an individual is or will be residing).

Remember, what can be lawfully mailed within or from Canada does not necessarily answer the question what can be lawfully mailed internationally, exported from Canada and imported into another country. There are multiple elements in play: what can be lawfully sent into (imported into) another country, and the requiremed means for importing that thing into another country. These are NOT governed by Canadian law, but by the law of the respective country into which the item is sent.

I doubt anyone here knows the importation laws of every country in the world, so no one here can definitively say, categorically, that it is lawful to mail an official government Travel Document abroad, a document which does not belong to the PR but is the sole property of the Government of Canada (which the PR, and no one else, is given permission to possess and use) abroad.

In particular, there are countries which explicitly make it a criminal offence to import certain types of Travel Documents through the mail (some which prohibit the importation of TDs through any means other than specifically enumerated means, such as on the person entitled to use the document, or through official government courier/diplomatic services).

I am unsure of the extent to which the restrictions governing possession of a PR card are relevant to this issue, but here too there is probably a distinction between what is technically provided and what is, as a pragmatic matter, generally the practice. Technically no one other than the PR is supposed to hold or possess the PR card. Practically of course there is leeway. In between, though, is what many will refer to as a gray area. But this may loom as a more significant matter in the destination country, which may have stricter laws regarding possession of official Travel Documents, or which may more strictly enforce such laws.


CanV said:
Just because the guy is a lawyer and has his contact info and membership number below whatever he said doesnt make him an expert, more like a bad expert.
To be clear: the individual giving information in the referenced link is NOT a lawyer. Immigration consultants are not lawyers.

(While lawyers are authorized to act in the capacity of an immigration consultant, most individuals and businesses representing themselves to be an "immigration consultant" are not lawyers.)

It is an important distinction. I have a lot, lot more respect for information and advice obtained from a lawyer than I would from an immigration consultant.
 

Rob_TO

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dpenabill said:
Caution regarding anecdotal reports of this sort: Just because a hundred (even a thousand) people report doing something without encountering a problem does not mean it is not in some way restricted, or even prohibited. Only experiences corroborated by and consistent with known regulatory context are at all a reliable indicator of what is lawful.

That is, just because it is easy to do something (have more than a few drinks and drive home for example; pad business expense deductions in a tax return) without encountering a legal problem, can be as much about how easy it is to get away it, not so much about whether it is lawful.
Anecdotal reports aside, for something to be illegal there must be an actual law written somewhere that states it's illegal. Since this does not exist, you can conclude with some certainty that the practice is indeed fully legal.

You can't compare at all to drunk driving or tax fraud, since while many people may do those things and get away with it, there is a very clear and specific law that states those actions are illegal, and what possibly punishments could be if caught. No such thing exists for mailing PR cards out of Canada.

Even if there was some policy of CIC (in some internal document we are not aware of) that they didn't want PR cards being mailed out of Canada and they instructed Canada Post and other couriers to seize cards where they find them being mailed, that would still be different from the action being illegal. Breaking a policy would not be the same as breaking a Canadian law, and even if "caught" in this case one would not need to fear legal action, they would just get told that they can't do it. If any punishment was possible, they would need to make this available to the public record. Not that any policy exists though.

I doubt anyone here knows the importation laws of every country in the world, so no one here can definitively say, categorically, that it is lawful to mail an official government Travel Document abroad, a document which does not belong to the PR but is the sole property of the Government of Canada (which the PR, and no one else, is given permission to possess and use) abroad.
True some countries may have their own laws around this, and that would need to be looked at on a case by case basis.

The main risk I can see though, is that a PR card is a valuable document to some people. In mailing to certain countries out there, I would be more worried a less-than-scrupulous customs or postal employee of that country could see it's a PR card, pocket it to sell on the black market, and claim the package was lost. Certainly not uncommon for other valuable items mailed internationally.
 

smk_ujs

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When they ask at Fedex or DHL what we are sending, what should we say?

pr cards or just say personal documents?
 

kateg

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Rob_TO said:
Anecdotal reports aside, for something to be illegal there must be an actual law written somewhere that states it's illegal. Since this does not exist, you can conclude with some certainty that the practice is indeed fully legal.
Exactly. I spend a lot of time going through the IRPA, the enforcement manuals, etc. I've read every single law related to the PR card, and quite a few of the rulings.

From a Canadian standpoint, it is not illegal to mail a PR card.