Sending additional documents with initial application (NOA, T4s, etc)

[nadeem55]

Nice survey with the limited data but still there are some point why CIC officers issue RQ to some applicants, there might be bunch of factors before they consider RQ including:

- Frequent or infrequent travel history or travel record declaration
- Not mentioning old passport or lost passport (name changes without proper prove)
- Days toward Physical residence (less then 1095)
- Ties to Canada including education, employment, and other records including health...
- Criminal or any engagement with court in past
- Previous Citizenship Applications
- Use of a suspect residential address
- Previous nationality (could be a possible with red-flagged countries)

and list could be more than what I mentioned but these are some of the general issues which triggered RQ, I hope this helps.

This could

 

[Trex25]

Arambi, and all,

I think the sample of 10 applicants does not give any accurate conclusion at all. In the matter of fact, and statistically speaking, it could give out false conclusions from probability perspective. The sheet that contains 775 applicants gives a more accurate ( NOT in the least very accurate ) conclusion that a certain percentage of the applicants will get an RQ irrelevant of what documents they would supply. Now from what I read in this forum, and based on many cases I encountered, there were people who had multiple what we would call " RQ triggers " but did not get any RQ, and others with so many documents provided and they GOT RQ. So, my conclusion, until a good number specimen is analyzed, would be that you will get an RQ if you are unlucky enough to be part of the Quality control sample that CIC are choosing based on arbitrary Quality check algorithm.

Cheers!

 

[brzykanadan]

Given the fact that a total of about 20% of all applicants for citizenship will receive a RQ, a sample of 10 applicants who sent in additional documents, and 2 of those receiving an RQ only reinforces the statistical fact that about 20% of all applicants will receive and RQ. It does not support a hypothesis that sending extra documents is helpful. From your mini study it seems more like it is not helpful nor harmful. What interests me is why do people choose to send extra documents if they are not prompted to do so? Citizenship times are what they are, we all want to become Canadians and it will happen for those who are patient...apparently.

 

[arambi]

arambi,

we wont let you go just like that...we need a Journal Citation ! ;D

Happy Friday guys !

Happy Friday my dear !!!

 

[arambi]

I partially agree with you.

1-) You made a great connection between the RQ % in the general population of applicants and the RQ% in the sample (ONLY applicant who sent extra docs) which suggest that extra docs have no impact on RQ (i.e. you will not receive RQ solely because you sent extra docs)

Now that we know that sending extra docs will not harm one application, we have two questions:

2-) Do we have evidence that extra docs help application? No. This does not mean that extra docs DOES not help... It just means statistically speaking, we don't have evidence supporting the assertion that extra docs help.

This is where I disagree with you. Given that there is no downside (risk) in sending extra docs? Why not take the chance when they can be some upside?
I will again advise to take the chance of sending limited extra docs, I will never harm, it may help.

Given the fact that a total of about 20% of all applicants for citizenship will receive a RQ, a sample of 10 applicants who sent in additional documents, and 2 of those receiving an RQ only reinforces the statistical fact that about 20% of all applicants will receive and RQ. It does not support a hypothesis that sending extra documents is helpful. From your mini study it seems more like it is not helpful nor harmful. What interests me is why do people choose to send extra documents if they are not prompted to do so? Citizenship times are what they are, we all want to become Canadians and it will happen for those who are patient...apparently.

 

[us2yow]

Prof Arambi,

Yes....fully agree....should we set up a randomized control trial and a further follow up evaluation to study the topic in depth and publish the results in the Canada Gazette ? ;D

 

[era1521]

.........
2-) Do we have evidence that extra docs help application? No. This does not mean that extra docs DOES not help... It just means statistically speaking, we don't have evidence supporting the assertion that extra docs help.

This is where I disagree with you. Given that there is no downside (risk) in sending extra docs? Why not take the chance when they can be some upside?

.......

How did you come to this conclusion and what exactly is that "upside"?

 

[Sisifo]

i applied with family in Sept and i included additional documents - NOAs , T4s, 1 random payslip from each quarter ( so 3 in total ) and a confirmation of employment letter with my app and spouse did the same. We did not get RQ and we sit the test next week.

 

[arambi]

i applied with family in Sept and i included additional documents - NOAs , T4s, 1 random payslip from each quarter ( so 3 in total ) and a confirmation of employment letter with my app and spouse did the same. We did not get RQ and we sit the test next week.

Thanks Sisifo. We now have 10 out of 12 did not receive RQ

 

[informatics]

Thanks Sisifo. We now have 10 out of 12 did not receive RQ

To add a little here , one of my friend who applied in Dec 2014 and his application is in process ,also send T4s , employment letter and NOAs . No RQ so far for him .

 

[arambi]

To add a little here , one of my friend who applied in Dec 2014 and his application is in process ,also send T4s , employment letter and NOAs . No RQ so far for him .

Thanks Informatics. It looks like we are approaching a consensus on the following:
NOA / T4
+
Employment Letter / most recent pay stub
+
Lease or Home-ownership docs

Are the key extra docs one should send with application

 

[Politren]

I don't understand, why the people who doesn't sent extra documents seems to get their citizenship faster?

 

[arambi]

Hello Politren,
We may first need to understand how you arrive at the below conclusion. Any data you looked at? Please walk us through your process or methodology in arriving at this conclusion.

people who doesn't sent extra documents seems to get their citizenship faster

 

[era1521]

Hello Politren,
We may first need to understand how you arrive at the below conclusion. Any data you looked at? Please walk us through your process or methodology in arriving at this conclusion.

I can walk you through my timeline:
- from send to oath - 4 mts and 2 weeks (Sep 29 - Feb 18)
- 3 years out of last 4 self-employed
- 4 different addresses in last 4 yrs (last address moved in 2 months before sending the application)
- and, of course, I followed the guideline and requirements and did not include any piece of documents except Language test, copies from DL, OHIP, PR, biographical page of passport and my daughter school reports.

You still did not explain your statement:
>>>
Given that there is no downside (risk) in sending extra docs? Why not take the chance when they can be some upside?
<<<
What actually is the upside and how did get to that conclusion? Please walk us through your process or methodology in arriving at this conclusion.

 

[arambi]

Hello my dear Era,

My request was: "Please walk us through your process or methodology in arriving at this conclusion" and not "Please walk us through your timeline in arriving at this conclusion"

Not sure if I need to explain the difference between process/methodology and one's individual timeline... let me know...

When talking about statistics or probabilities, Upside refers to a potential reward and downside to a potential loss.... And my process or methodology in arriving at my conclusion is well documented on this tread..

I can walk you through my timeline:
- from send to oath - 4 mts and 2 weeks (Sep 29 - Feb 18)
- 3 years out of last 4 self-employed
- 4 different addresses in last 4 yrs (last address moved in 2 months before sending the application)
- and, of course, I followed the guideline and requirements and did not include any piece of documents except Language test, copies from DL, OHIP, PR, biographical page of passport and my daughter school reports.

You still did not explain your statement:
>>>
Given that there is no downside (risk) in sending extra docs? Why not take the chance when they can be some upside?
<<<
What actually is the upside and how did get to that conclusion? Please walk us through your process or methodology in arriving at this conclusion.