Score calculator confusion

[Michau]

I have a question regarding the CRS score calculator linked on this forum. As I understand, it should provide a good estimate of what my actual CRS score will be when I submit an EE profile.

My problem is this: I have a Master of Engineering degree from a Polish technical university. Therefore I select the "Master" option in "Level of education", and the calculator correctly assigns me 126 points for education.

But then for calculating the skill transferability factors, the calculator asks me whether I have two or more post-secondary credentials. And here's a caveat: in Canada, and probably in most other countries, a Master's degree is preceded by obtaining a Bachelor's degree so the answer should be YES here. However, in Poland at the time when I was studying, there was no Bachelor's degree at all. Instead of doing 3-4 years for Bachelor and then 2 more years for Master, everyone just studied for 5 years and got Master. So technically speaking, I do not have two distinct university degrees so a logical choice should be NO here.

But if I choose NO for this question, the calculator is giving me only 25 instead of 50 points for skill transferability. I am under the impression that creators of the calculator thought that everybody with Master should have at least two degress, which is wrong. And since I don't have two distinct degrees, the calculator puts me on the "Post-secondary program credential of one year or longer (levels 3,4 & 5)" level.

However, I think that I should be put on the "Two or more post-secondary program credentials AND at least one of these credentials was issued on completion of a post-secondary program of three years or longer (levels 6,7 & 8)" level because logically level 6 should correspond to "Two or more post-secondary program credentials", level 7 to "University-level credential at the Master’s level" and level 9 to "University-level credential at the Doctoral level" in the Education factors.

So now I am not sure whether (1) the calculator is wrong as it misinterprets my education credentials or (2) I am wrong and the calculator is right, therefore my actual EE score will also be lower by 25 from what I think it should be?

Any help on this will be appreciated.

 

[jes_ON]

get your educational credentials assessment done, you will (likely) want/need to do it anyway, and you'll have a better idea of how to enter it.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/assessment.asp

 

[dobes]

You will have to have your credentials assessed. I will tell you, though, that my Slovak partner, who is applying for permanent resident as my dependent, had his Master's degree - obtained in Slovakia as a primary degree following 5 years of study - assessed as being at the Canadian bachelor's level. His degree was Mgr - I don't know if you get the same degree in Poland. Anyway, he had to accept the lower points, though he is now studying for a Master's in Canada, and will get full credit for that when he finishes next year.

 

[idefix]

I confirm dobes' answer: You will most likely have an equivalency of Bachelors' 4 years for your diploma.

You need it assessed by WES (best institution for ECA) anyway before creating your profile. They have an online tool that lets you simulate your ECA and you will have a better idea.

 

[Michau]

@dobes: Thanks for the reply. Yes, I also have the "mgr" title so it seems that I will be in the same situation as your partner. Can you possibly tell me what major he was studying?

@idefix: Thanks forpointing to the online tool, I haven't notived it before. The confusing thing is that it shows "Bachelor's and Master's degree" as the Canadion equivalency for me. But I guess it may be tailored to the new Polish system where we get two separate degrees.

My WES ECA shows status "Documents received - review in progress" so I think I will have to wait a few more weeks before it is issued.

 

[Michau]

@ dan_and: Yes, I will post my results here.

I wasn't aware of the CIC calculator! I used it now and indeed it gives me 25 points more than the calculator on this site. So now we can confirm that the calculator on this site is wrong.

Unfortunately, the difference between Master's (which I hoped to get) and Bachelor's (which I assume I will get from WES) is a whopping 39 points - really disappointing Let's wait for the ECA then.

 

[dobes]

His Mgr. is in teaching the English and Slovak languages. He's now finishing the second year in a 3-year Master's program in literacy and curriculum development at the University of Toronto. Since your degree is in the sciences, you may get full credit for the Master's - I hope so. I also think it's a little weird that in Slovakia, and apparently in Poland now, students are awarded a bachelor's degree after 3 years of study and then continue for 2 more years to get the Mgr. If they come to Canada when they finish, they will be able to claim the two post-secondary degrees, even though their course of study will have been identical to yours and my partner's, with just an extra piece of paper awarded in the middle!

When we entered the information for EE, we put that he has a Master's degree, because he does - but we also put that it was assessed at the Canadian bachelor's level, because it was. Good luck with yours!

 

[idefix]

@ dobes: Thanks for the reply. Yes, I also have the "mgr" title so it seems that I will be in the same situation as your partner. Can you possibly tell me what major he was studying?

@ idefix: Thanks forpointing to the online tool, I haven't notived it before. The confusing thing is that it shows "Bachelor's and Master's degree" as the Canadion equivalency for me. But I guess it may be tailored to the new Polish system where we get two separate degrees.

My WES ECA shows status "Documents received - review in progress" so I think I will have to wait a few more weeks before it is issued.

If you get Bachelors and Masters you will get max points in both. Masters is worth more than Two degrees.

I got the same and I got the 50 points on transferability.

 

[Michau]

@dobes: Not necessarily just an extra title. Right now (I guess in Slovakia it is the same) we need to prepare two thesis papers: One for Bachelor's (lic.) and second one for Master's (mgr). In the old system, there was only one thesis for Master's. So the number of years studied is the same, but the amount of work is (theoretically) not. Maybe that's what makes the difference for ECA.

I said "theoretically" because in many cases people just extend the thesis they did for Bachelor's and present it for Master's, at least when doing both degrees at the same university. So no much additional work as well... but apparently for ECA it's still not the same.

And the most pitiful thing is that I attended the university right when the system was changing. So some students did only Master's and some Bachelor's and Master's, but this required an extra year (4+2) so nobody wanted this. So the university put students with better grades on Master-only, and those with worse grades on the unwanted Bachelor+Master.

So, apparently, I would have much better chances to immigrate to Canada if I got worse grades at the university. How ironic is that? ;-)

 

[Michau]

@dan_and: Here is the update you requested. WES did my ECA in three business days (!) and here's the outcome:

Credential Authentication: Official transcripts were sent directly by the institution
Country: Poland
Credential: Tytul magistra inzyniera (Title of Master in Engineering)
Year: 2003
Awarded by: Warsaw University of Technology
Institution Status: Recognized
Major/Specialization: Computer Systems and Software Engineering
Canadian Equivalency: Bachelor's and master's degree

So there's hope! I think maybe the difference between me and @dobes and others was that it was an engineering / technical title. Or maybe it depends on the specific university (Politechnika Warszawska is one of the top universities here). Or maybe it's just random, depending on the person who is doing the evaluation? I have no idea. But I got Master's and will land somewhere at 420 - yay!

 

[YamPower]

I think what it really comes down to is the courses completed to earn the degrees. Congrats Michau!

 

[Michau]

I think what it really comes down to is the courses completed to earn the degrees. Congrats Michau!

Yes it is possible.

Maybe also it's because I obtained a new transcript from my university which showed ECTS grading for each course - my old transcript from 2003 did not have them. As there is a standardized system now in European Union on how much ECTS credits are required for Bachelor's, Master's etc it's quite easy to rate the curriculum. If the transcript for @dobes' partner did not have ECTS information, this could also make the difference.

 

[YamPower]

Yup. Do you know of any programs like yours in Canada? I know that Hunter College in New York City did a 5 year Bachelors/Masters degree combo.

But I'm wondering how WES did your evaluation in 3 days. That's crazy. My account has been saying Evaluation in Progress for two weeks :-\

 

[Michau]

I never heard of courses like mine in Canada (we don't have them here as well these days - it was a post-Communist legacy). I was told that normally Bachelor's takes 4 years in Canada and Master's is considered postgraduate, this is very different to Poland.

My WES account was showing estimated completion date of 19 March but they did it in three days! From which country is your university?

 

[YamPower]

My universities are in Jamaica. I know several people who have used WES who have degrees from both of my schools and their evaluations turned out fine so I'm not concerned about that. What I really don't want is for me to have 465 points and they have a draw where I would have gotten ITA if only the ECA was complete :-\