@dpenabill I became citizen after a bloody loooooong process through CIT 0520 and then the full RQ 0171 versions which took very very long. I just want to thank you for the maybe not up to the point but (considering your limited knowledge of the cases) giving very full and honest advices. My case took very long because I was out of Canada. I was issued a removal order and I was so close to lose my PR. I only could survive it with getting a job in Canada, working my ass off to convince the IAD and at the same time begging citizenship not to process the case while IAD was pending. It was a discrection which citizenship mercifully gave to me but I do not suggest anyone to go my route. I had an AMAZING lawyer who submitted about 300 pages of documents (out of which it was a good 50ish pages of writing and explaining my situation. I have some advice? Yes, do not go my route. Stay in Canada, fulfill the days, become a citizen. Other advices that I have for people who are already in the trap of leaving and coming back to Canada with removal orders: you may lose the citizenship case, but if your PR is of value to you, stay in Canada, get a job and maybe just stay for good. You will get all the goodies of citizenship later once your PR case is resolved. Otherwise say goodbye to both the PR and citizenship. IF you are in a residence questionnaire situation, DO get advice from a professional lawyer. It is going to cost you a fortune but the good ones are so worth it. Good luck everyone.
RQ versus Physical Presence Questionnaires, including CIT 0205
- Thread starter dpenabill
- Start date
I submitted documents for CIT 0520 and I don't know how long I'll have to wait. It's been 2.5 yrs...
@dpenabill I forgot to mention something: although my CIT 0520 docs were satisfying enough (the ATIP notes from someone in citizenship showed they were finally reviewed at the grant of citizenship) yet as IRCC knew I am out of Canada, the chose to move me from CIT 0520 to CIT 0171 (the so called full RQ) just to make sure and I say it INTENTIONALLY so that one day that removal order could be issued. I mean if they are convinced that someone has met the requirements and then left Canada, they still may chose to not process the case until a removal order is issued. In my case, I had been in Canada for over 20 years (for family and work reasons it was difficult for me to fullfill the citizenship requirement). Yet this was given a very positive factor in my IAD case. It was overlooked by the original citizenship officer. To them, many of us are just shopping for passports (that is the mentality). It seem that at least in my case the original case processing agent reviewing my file did not give me the benefit of doubt and although might have been satisfied that I fulllfilled the residency requirement (once he/she noticed I am out of Canada) they decided to wait for the day I am issued the removal order. I reentered Canada multiple time in between and sent gizilion number of emails and ATIPS. Nonce were taken into consideration until the removal order was issued. The IAD panel found significant ties and humanitarian reasons to overrule the decision. I would like to consider myself a one off example. However, in the long long process I came across 2 more examples of people from the same country of origin: one lost his PR and the other lost the citizenship case. In my opinion the first one deserved to lose even the PR (he was warned by CBSA once to stay in the country but he chose to leave) but the second one was treated very very unfairly in front of a citizenship judge.
I just noticed: your RQ is very recent. Be patient! you are very well under the normal processing times for someone with a lite RQ. It shouldnt be too long for you to hear from them if all the docs are in good order.
Updates with detail are always appreciated.
While the IAD decisions (for PR Residency Obligation enforcement cases) and the Federal Court decisions (for RO and for citizenship appeals, albeit rather few year to year) are official accounts of actual cases and address the law and procedures actually employed, forum anecdotal reports (like yours) provide context and perspective that is an important part of advancing our collective understanding of how the process actually works. This is key to helping others navigate their way.
Not everyone abroad for an extended time after applying encounters serious difficulty, let alone the ordeal you describe, but the risk is real, as your experience illustrates.
What we do not know, what the jury is still out about, is how much risk there is for the applicant living abroad after applying, risk that IRCC will pursue non-routine processing resulting in lengthy delays that can put the applicant's PR status at risk for failing to meet the Residency Obligation. Since many still sail through the process relatively smoothly (incurring only those delays that applicants generally deal with), there is no indication that being abroad alone triggers deliberate delays (other than those associated with finalizing the process, such as not scheduling the oath unless or until it is readily apparent the applicant will be or actually is in Canada). But for sure, if the applicant is abroad approaching a RO compliance issue, the risk of serious problems increases significantly. Suggesting it is one thing to leave Canada for an extended time after applying, but another to relocate abroad indefinitely after applying, the latter tending to elevate the risk of RQ-related non-routine processing and related issues.
Sure, so I am going to hide some details and also move my actual dates a bit to keep my privacy, but the essence of the case will be the same:
I applied around Nov 2017 with around 30 days of buffer days with many, many, many travels abroad, but my calculation was EXACT and bulletproof (something that finally came to my help at the very end of the road). So yea, I applied and I left the country. Around April 2018 about 6 months after I applied, I got the test in person which I passed 20/20. Then the officer immediately after the test requested additional docs (she/he) was very polite and didnt give me any hints about the process which was about to follow. She requested CIT 0520 which I replied with great details. In July 2018, I got an ATIP request in which I noticed the had put a tick on the calendar which seemed she agreed with all the dates I had mentioned as entries and exits. I must mention that I was honest about the fact that I was not in Canada. This was highlighted when I contacted the local MP to request information (this was around Aug 2018). The MP insisted that it is better that I stay in Canada and I told him/her that I would return as soon I hear about the oath. Instead I got the full RQ in around Aug 2018 and then visited Canada all the way until due to corona and some other factors which I can not go into detail (but was given SOME weight in the IAD ruling in my favor) about why I could not full fill the 730 days. So nothing happened on my citizenship case after sending the full RQ reply which had enough evidence to satisfy the most peculiar person or judge that I had indeed more that 3 years. Yet, IRCC did not do anything until around early 2021 when I was issued the removal order in the airport. I WORKED MY ASS OFF FROM THEN, to both have a positive IAD ruling and to beg IRCC not to render a decision as they sent the letter (I forgot the term) that they intend to finalize my case following the removal order. To make it short, IRCC was waiting patiently to see the removal order. To give you some more details about why they agreed to wait, I must mention that since the removal order, I showed extreme endeavor about my previous experience in Canada, my education, my work (past and current), family ties and etc which I guess might have been a factor the final decision by the citizenship division to accept holding my application pending the IAD ruling. I got lucky with the IAD as one week before the hearing, CBSA (noticing the 300 page submission by my angel lawyer) gave me a positive ...(I forgot the term) to avoid the actual hearing and so the IAD hearing was cancelled and the ruling was given in my favor. THIS PERIOD WAS EXTREMELY STRESSFUL. Then the citizenship was given notice about the IAD ruling and in couple of months they FINALLY processed the case and reviewed the CIT 0520 (this was mentioned in the final ATIP that I requested) in JUST ONE DAY: I was waiting for about 5 years and checking my evidence took ONLY 1 DAY. ONE FREAKIN DAY. Still I am grateful to them to grant me the citizenship but I always ask myself: why they couldn't give me the benefit of the doubt when originally deciding to wait for the removal order to happen. Why they missed all those years of great education and work? Why they couldn't see my 20 years of being in Canada in a more positive way which was obviously against their normal passport shopper profile. Regardless, it finally ended. So, you be the judge. I tried to explain in full details of what happened. I must also stress that without my lawyer, I could have NEVER done it. I am grateful both to my lawyer and to the decision maker in IRCC citizenship who mercifully agreed to withhold my application pending IAD ruling.
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Congratulations! All's well that ends well. It's great you came back to the forum to share your experience. All the best in the years ahead.
I am not sure how common are RQs these days. However, I can speak of the 2 people with RQ 0171 whose paths crossed with me while my RQ was being processed (or I should say my application was not being processed pending the review of RQ). One of these people was in the same shoes as me: he was given a removal order, he tried to fix it with humanitarian reasons but lost and left Canada. This person was also given the equity letter by citizenship but IRCC citizenship division did not wait for IAD and rejected his citizenship BEFORE the IAD ruling. This means that IRCC citizenship is in full power to either reject or suspend the processing an application as soon as the removal order is issued. In this case, this guy did not use a lawyer but instead went with an immigration consultant.
The second case: the guy went in front of a CJ. The CJ rejected the case but the guy is in Canada hoping to reapply one day. This guy did not use any consultant and it seemed that he did not put a good effort in collecting all the docs to be in order. To be fair, someone close to him was suffering a serious condition that made the citizenship to be of less important than collecting some docs which needed him to leave the country (like proof of entry and exit stamps from certain countries that can only be ordered in person).
None of these cases made it in full to these forums.
The second case: the guy went in front of a CJ. The CJ rejected the case but the guy is in Canada hoping to reapply one day. This guy did not use any consultant and it seemed that he did not put a good effort in collecting all the docs to be in order. To be fair, someone close to him was suffering a serious condition that made the citizenship to be of less important than collecting some docs which needed him to leave the country (like proof of entry and exit stamps from certain countries that can only be ordered in person).
None of these cases made it in full to these forums.