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RO not met by the time of entry

Ajerla04

Newbie
May 25, 2017
8
1
Hello
I am 20 years old and got my PR through my father in Jan 2014. We stayed for 15 days and returned back as I already started my engineering. My family moved to Canada in May 2016 so they are able to meet the RO requirements. I am going in July 2017 to permanently settle there. I even got a seat in Canadian university. Will there be a problem at the immigration in airport?
 

Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
Hello
I am 20 years old and got my PR through my father in Jan 2014. We stayed for 15 days and returned back as I already started my engineering. My family moved to Canada in May 2016 so they are able to meet the RO requirements. I am going in July 2017 to permanently settle there. I even got a seat in Canadian university. Will there be a problem at the immigration in airport?
If reported, yes. You are not compliant with RO. Was there a reason you didn't return with your family last year?
 
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spyfy

Champion Member
May 8, 2015
2,055
1,417
Job Offer........
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LANDED..........
26-08-2015
Hello
I am 20 years old and got my PR through my father in Jan 2014. We stayed for 15 days and returned back as I already started my engineering. My family moved to Canada in May 2016 so they are able to meet the RO requirements. I am going in July 2017 to permanently settle there. I even got a seat in Canadian university. Will there be a problem at the immigration in airport?
Aside from the question if you are let in at the border or not (see Tubsmagee's answer), do you have a valid Permanent Resident Card? I assume you applied to the University as a domestic student which means when you arrive at the University, to activate your student card and everything you must show them valid documentation that you are a Permanent Resident. Otherwise you will have to pay international tuition (best case) or you actually lose your spot in the program completely (worst case).

Note that the question if your PR card is still valid is completely independent if you are a PR or not. However, as pointed out, you need a valid PR card to prove your status at the university.
 
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Ajerla04

Newbie
May 25, 2017
8
1
Aside from the question if you are let in at the border or not (see Tubsmagee's answer), do you have a valid Permanent Resident Card? I assume you applied to the University as a domestic student which means when you arrive at the University, to activate your student card and everything you must show them valid documentation that you are a Permanent Resident. Otherwise you will have to pay international tuition (best case) or you actually lose your spot in the program completely (worst case).

Note that the question if your PR card is still valid is completely independent if you are a PR or not. However, as pointed out, you need a valid PR card to prove your status at the university.
My PR card is valid till Jan 2019 and my program is from Sep 2017-Sep 2018 . I applied as a domestic student and provided all my PR details to them during the time of admission. Will there be a problem at the university?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,438
3,183
I am 20 years old and got my PR through my father in Jan 2014. We stayed for 15 days and returned back as I already started my engineering. My family moved to Canada in May 2016 so they are able to meet the RO requirements. I am going in July 2017 to permanently settle there. I even got a seat in Canadian university. Will there be a problem at the immigration in airport?

My PR card is valid till Jan 2019 and my program is from Sep 2017-Sep 2018 . I applied as a domestic student and provided all my PR details to them during the time of admission. Will there be a problem at the university?
Since you are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation, having been outside Canada for more than three years now since landing, there is of course a risk you will be examined at the PoE regarding your time in Canada, your compliance or lack of compliance with the PR RO, and the reasons why you have been outside Canada so long.

Be prepared for such questions. Be prepared to answer them truthfully. Be prepared to simply honestly explain your situation, your family now being settled in Canada, your reasons (education) for your personal delay in coming to Canada, your plans in Canada, your enrollment in university in Canada. And perhaps have, in your hands (not in checked baggage), something to show where in Canada your family lives and to show your seat or enrollment in university in Canada.

It is difficult to guess whether or not you will be challenged about the PR RO, but you are obviously at risk, and technically in breach of the PR RO, so you should be prepared for a referral to Secondary and there being questioned about PR RO compliance.

No need to panic.

There is a good chance you will not be reported for the breach. If you are reported, you will have an opportunity to explain your situation to another CBSA immigration officer, and there is a good chance that officer might find the report valid in law but also find that H&C reasons warrant allowing you to retain PR status. Even if you fail to persuade that officer you should be allowed to keep your PR status, you will still be entitled to enter Canada. Worst case scenario is that you are issued a Departure Order. Again, no need to panic about this. If that happens, the Departure Order is NOT immediately enforceable, and you will be allowed into Canada. If that happens, yes you will need to appeal the Departure Order, and you should indeed do that.

No guarantee, and perhaps it would be a good idea to obtain the assistance of a lawyer, that is if you are issued a Departure Order and need to appeal that, but if you then stay in Canada, and your family is also settled in Canada, the odds should be good that ultimately you are allowed to keep PR status. Noting, however, that H&C cases can be very tricky and are usually difficult . . . but, from what you describe, it seems like you probably have a H&C case which will work at the PoE, and if not, then it should work a year or two later in the appeal, after staying in Canada in the meantime. Subject, of course, to whether or not there are other circumstances which could influence things otherwise.

While border officers should not push a PR to surrender PR status at the border, some reports suggest this sometimes happens when it is clear the PR is in breach of the PR RO. The suggestion might include a recommendation that you could then be eligible for a student visa or vistor visa. From what you have reported, most likely your best approach will be to press that you are returning to Canada as soon as you could, needing to finish your degree, as politely as possible, and assert that you think you deserve to keep PR status.

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that you have good odds of being waived into Canada, or at least allowed to enter without being reported after an interview in Secondary. But again, you are in breach of the PR RO, so there is a risk it could be more difficult than that, but the worst case scenario is you keep your PR card, you get to come into Canada, and even though given a Departure Order all you will need to do then is be sure to make an appeal on time, and go from there.

In the meantime, it would be appreciated if you could return and report here about how things do go at the PoE.
 
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Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
13,187
2,420
In addition to what dpenabill said always with CBSA only answer questions that are asked, do not volunteer any information unless asked , such as in your case that you have been away so long. Only give that information if asked which you may well be anyway.

Of course always be honest with CBSA but volunteering information can just lead you down a path unecessarily you might not want to go, it is not being dishonest or misrepresenting yourself as long as all answers are truthful.
 
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Ajerla04

Newbie
May 25, 2017
8
1
Since you are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation, having been outside Canada for more than three years now since landing, there is of course a risk you will be examined at the PoE regarding your time in Canada, your compliance or lack of compliance with the PR RO, and the reasons why you have been outside Canada so long.

Be prepared for such questions. Be prepared to answer them truthfully. Be prepared to simply honestly explain your situation, your family now being settled in Canada, your reasons (education) for your personal delay in coming to Canada, your plans in Canada, your enrollment in university in Canada. And perhaps have, in your hands (not in checked baggage), something to show where in Canada your family lives and to show your seat or enrollment in university in Canada.

It is difficult to guess whether or not you will be challenged about the PR RO, but you are obviously at risk, and technically in breach of the PR RO, so you should be prepared for a referral to Secondary and there being questioned about PR RO compliance.

No need to panic.

There is a good chance you will not be reported for the breach. If you are reported, you will have an opportunity to explain your situation to another CBSA immigration officer, and there is a good chance that officer might find the report valid in law but also find that H&C reasons warrant allowing you to retain PR status. Even if you fail to persuade that officer you should be allowed to keep your PR status, you will still be entitled to enter Canada. Worst case scenario is that you are issued a Departure Order. Again, no need to panic about this. If that happens, the Departure Order is NOT immediately enforceable, and you will be allowed into Canada. If that happens, yes you will need to appeal the Departure Order, and you should indeed do that.

No guarantee, and perhaps it would be a good idea to obtain the assistance of a lawyer, that is if you are issued a Departure Order and need to appeal that, but if you then stay in Canada, and your family is also settled in Canada, the odds should be good that ultimately you are allowed to keep PR status. Noting, however, that H&C cases can be very tricky and are usually difficult . . . but, from what you describe, it seems like you probably have a H&C case which will work at the PoE, and if not, then it should work a year or two later in the appeal, after staying in Canada in the meantime. Subject, of course, to whether or not there are other circumstances which could influence things otherwise.

While border officers should not push a PR to surrender PR status at the border, some reports suggest this sometimes happens when it is clear the PR is in breach of the PR RO. The suggestion might include a recommendation that you could then be eligible for a student visa or vistor visa. From what you have reported, most likely your best approach will be to press that you are returning to Canada as soon as you could, needing to finish your degree, as politely as possible, and assert that you think you deserve to keep PR status.

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that you have good odds of being waived into Canada, or at least allowed to enter without being reported after an interview in Secondary. But again, you are in breach of the PR RO, so there is a risk it could be more difficult than that, but the worst case scenario is you keep your PR card, you get to come into Canada, and even though given a Departure Order all you will need to do then is be sure to make an appeal on time, and go from there.

In the meantime, it would be appreciated if you could return and report here about how things do go at the PoE.
I cannot thank you enough for your help. This helped me calm my nerves. I will go prepared with all the paperwork. I applied to UofA but couldn't proceed further due to my passport being held at PR processing in 2013. Apart from that I have a job offer in India which I am rejecting to study in Canada. Maybe all these will be helpful in persuading then during worst case scenarios. I will surely report here how things went on. Again thanks for your patience that was very informative.
 

Ajerla04

Newbie
May 25, 2017
8
1
In addition to what dpenabill said always with CBSA only answer questions that are asked, do not volunteer any information unless asked , such as in your case that you have been away so long. Only give that information if asked which you may well be anyway.

Of course always be honest with CBSA but volunteering information can just lead you down a path unecessarily you might not want to go, it is not being dishonest or misrepresenting yourself as long as all answers are truthful.
I do tend to talk more than necessary when I am nervous. Thank you I will surely keep that in mind.
 

Ajerla04

Newbie
May 25, 2017
8
1
Hello guys.. I was reported at the POE. I was asked to talk to the immigration officer where they asked stuff like what was the reason of your absence and are you going to stay like that.. Then after that I had to meet a senior immigration officer where he interviewed me and decided whether I will keep my PR status or not. As my whole family is here and I am planning on settling here too they allowed me to retain my PR status under humanitarian grounds.
 
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