Returning to Canada with my wife

[v00d00]

Alright guys, I've been lingering around here reading about what others have gone through in the arduous process that they call immigration, and I've finally decided to post and get some advice. Here's the scoop:

I'm a born Canadian citizen. When I was younger, my mother brought me to the U.S. She filed for her PR and, long story short, completely ignored mine. I didn't even have a copy of my birth certificate, passport, or any other ID, so I returned to Canada with the hope of squaring everything away properly and then came back to the states. Because of this, I now face a 10 year bar from the U.S. and have decided to take my wife and 1 year old son to Canada in hopes that we can get her PR and be done with the red tape and headaches. Given this situation, I need to leave a soon as humanly possible and don't have time to file and wait for an outland PR application for my wife. Also, for what it's worth, my wife and I were married here in the states a little over a year ago. We had a legitimate ceremony and everything with both of our families in attendance and officiated by a justice of the peace. We have a marriage license and are legally married, and have been together for about three years total. Our son was born here in the U.S. as well, and as I understand through my research, is a Canadian citizen because he is the first generation born outside of Canada to a Canadian citizen, I simply need to file for a citizenship certificate for him, which I plan to do after we get to Canada.

My plan is to pack up everything we own into an international moving container and have it shipped to my cousin's house in my home town. We will be taking the bare minimum in our vehicle that a family of 3 would take for a 2 week vacation and head north. When we reach the border, we will tell them that we are visiting some of my family (who have legitimately never met our son) and that we will be visiting for 2 weeks. This will, of course, not be the case, and we will not be returning to America. I already have a few prospects for jobs and intend to get employed and get us housing ASAP. Here's where my questions begin.

Is it feasible that we can pull off the border crossing given that I have no status in the states and have been here for quite some time? I've seen that people on here have their spouse with them in Canada the whole time the application process is taking place. The problem is, if she gets denied at the border, I can't cross back into the states with her. There's other border crossings near where we will initially be attempting that she could theoretically try, but I just want to know the likelihood that this will work.

U.S. citizens are exempt from visa requirements in Canada (to an extent anyway), and the CIC website states specifically that she does not need legal status to obtain PR through me. Should we attempt to apply for temporary residence or some sort of visa for her when the 6 month mark approaches, sooner than that, or at all? I'll be filing for her PR as soon as possible, so extra expenditures would hamper this, however I don't want to risk denial of the application.

How should we handle our son on the application given that he already has citizenship?

I may need to get some government assistance temporarily until I find work. Will this affect her application? I intend to file after I find employment of course, I'm just curious if there's an amount of time I should wait after getting assistance to file.

Any help on this would be appreciated so that we can get the ball rolling. Let me know if you guys need any more information from me, and if I think of any other questions, I'll let you know. Thanks.

 

[Avadava]

I will try to answer a couple of your questions, but keep in mind that all my knowledge is from what I read in this forum and nor from personal experience.

1. As long as your wife says she is visiting and is not carrying a lot of luggage with her, then there shouldn't be any reason to deny her entry into Canada as a visitor. She will be able to stay for 6 months, but that can be extended within Canada. If she gets denied entry, you could try another border. I've heard of a case like this before. It depends a lot on the mood of the border officer too.

2. If you apply for any type of government assistance, other than disability, this will have a negative impact on your spousal application. You will not be eligible to sponsor a member of the family class.

Maybe other members can share their thoughts on this too.

 

[automaton82]

I'm a little confused, it sounds like when you were a child your mom brought you to the U.S. but you never got PR, or any ID. Since then, you've spent (presumably) over 10 years in the U.S., in school, getting married, working without status or ID? How did you manage to do that?

 

[bartjones]

Tricky situation you've got there.

There is never any guarantee that your wife will be admitted to Canada. It's always up to the particular CBSA agent whether they grant her admission. You've probably already gathered that by reading other posts here. Having said that, if you tell the CBSA agent that your wife is just coming to visit and intends to return to the US, I think you'll be okay. The only complication I see is the question of showing the CBSA agent that she will return to the US at the end of her stay. Since you have no status in the US and cannot re-enter that country to take her back, the CBSA agent may doubt your story and wonder how she's going to get back home. Would it be possible to get her a refundable bus/train/plane ticket home with a return date within 6 months of your entry date? I think that would solve your problem on that issue completely.

Assuming she does get admitted I believe you can still submit an outland PR application. You don't have to be physically present in the US to do that. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

In addition, if she gets in as a visitor, and submits a PR application you can then apply to extend her visitor's visa for another year. Assuming she has no other admissibility issues, you have a place to stay and the means of supporting her, that extension will probably be granted.

I'm not sure what the answer is to your question regarding your son. If he gets his Canadian citizenship formalized here (don't ask me how you accomplish that, others here will know), I think, other than reporting his existence on the PR application forms, he will not be part of the PR application at all, since he's already Canadian.

Avadava is correct. Do not apply for social assistance. That will adversely affect your sponsorship application.

Hope that helps.

 

[v00d00]

I'm a little confused, it sounds like when you were a child your mom brought you to the U.S. but you never got PR, or any ID. Since then, you've spent (presumably) over 10 years in the U.S., in school, getting married, working without status or ID? How did you manage to do that?

It hasn't been easy. I'm a skilled computer and electronics technician and guitar player. I supported myself by running a small cash repair business and buying and reselling broken electronics, mostly through Craigslist. On the weekends, I played guitar in two bands for cash every Friday and Saturday night. It's quite a unique story actually, and I intend to author a book on my experiences after I return to Canada.

2. If you apply for any type of government assistance, other than disability, this will have a negative impact on your spousal application. You will not be eligible to sponsor a member of the family class.

Even if I simply apply to help get on my feet and then become employed? I don't intend to file my wife's PR application while on assistance. Is it not a good idea to do this at all?

Would it be possible to get her a refundable bus/train/plane ticket home with a return date within 6 months of your entry date? I think that would solve your problem on that issue completely.

We could definitely do that, however she will be driving our vehicle, which has U.S. license plates on it, up to Canada. I'm trying to figure out another way to show some obligation to return. If I say that I've hired a lawyer and am attempting to adjust status and have a job offer in the states, would that help at all? I'm also considering having my cousin come to pick me up on the American side and bring me back to Canada separately, and then have my wife and son cross on their own, which would both allow me to file the papers claiming all the stuff in the shipping container at customs right away, and alleviate any suspicion that may be caused by my lack of status.

Another question, has anyone gone through the process of attempting to import a vehicle some time after bringing it across and not right away at customs? It would be nice to not have to buy another vehicle when we get to Canada.

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[bartjones]

We could definitely do that, however she will be driving our vehicle, which has U.S. license plates on it, up to Canada. I'm trying to figure out another way to show some obligation to return. If I say that I've hired a lawyer and am attempting to adjust status and have a job offer in the states, would that help at all? I'm also considering having my cousin come to pick me up on the American side and bring me back to Canada separately, and then have my wife and son cross on their own, which would both allow me to file the papers claiming all the stuff in the shipping container at customs right away, and alleviate any suspicion that may be caused by my lack of status.

I guess you could do it that way but I'm wondering why.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I understand your situation. You are a Canadian citizen who wants to move back to Canada after having lived illegally in the US. Your wife is an American citizen who wants to accompany you, initially as a visitor, and then make a PR application as your spouse. You have a son who is a Canadian citizen.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but, as Canadian citizens, CBSA cannot deny you or your son entry into Canada, regardless of what you've done in the US. Your wife is, I assume, otherwise admissible to Canada (i.e. no criminal convictions or other reasons for being denied entry). The only obvious reason she could be denied admission is if the CBSA officer doesn't think she will return to the US at the end of her stay. A return ticket of some sort should solve that issue.

So why not just drive up here together. Tell the CBSA agent that you are repatriating to Canada after having lived in the US, and have goods to follow you. Bring a list of those goods so you can complete the B4 form and avoid the taxes/duties. Tell him that your wife plans to visit with you (emphasis on the 'visit' part) and would like a visitor's visa. Show him her return ticket to prove that she will in fact return to the US if necessary. Once here, make your PR application. At some point before her 6 months visitor's status are up, apply to extend her visitor's visa for an additional year. If you are working and have a place to stay, chances are very good that extension will be granted.

I'd be interested in what others here think about your situation but, on reflection, it seems to me that you don't need to be dishonest with the folks at the border in your situation. Why do you think your lack of status in the US would concern the agents at CBSA?

Another question, has anyone gone through the process of attempting to import a vehicle some time after bringing it across and not right away at customs? It would be nice to not have to buy another vehicle when we get to Canada.

I don't know about this, but there was a very recent thread about that topic here. Maybe you can search around here, or, better yet, CBSA'a website. I'm sure you will find the answer there somewhere.

 

[Avadava]

Even if I simply apply to help get on my feet and then become employed? I don't intend to file my wife's PR application while on assistance. Is it not a good idea to do this at all?

No, it's not a good idea. It must have passed at least one year from the time you received social assistance till the time you file your application. CIC will ask for Printout C from last taxation year just for this reason. If you received any assistance, be it for one month only, they will find out. And it won't look good for your or your wife. You, as a sponsor, are financially responsible for your spouse, so the fact that you need government help as soon as you arrive to Canada, will raise red flags. This shows them that you are not capable of offering financial support to your spouse and both of you are likely to go on social assistance.

 

[truesmile]

Agreed. AND I'd stick with your 'visiting' story, you'll get through WAY faster than the repatriation act. That could tie you up at the border for a while. If you do "search" the topic, you will find that's what others have done also.

 

[steerpike]

Have a really good story for why your wife has to return after 2 weeks. It seems a bit suspicious, the whole family crossing but the wife isnt going to stay with her husband? hey will probably ask and will probably want a really good answer. I mean they may ask, why doesnt she stay a month? 2 weeks is so short. So whats your answer?

Dont have any documents that suggest she will be staying longer, such as her resume. They go thru your phone and everything too, so no suspicious text messages.

 

[bartjones]

Agreed. AND I'd stick with your 'visiting' story, you'll get through WAY faster than the repatriation act. That could tie you up at the border for a while. If you do "search" the topic, you will find that's what others have done also.

But the repatriation story isn't an act. It's true. And if he says he is just visiting, how is he going to avoid all those taxes/duties on the goods he is shipping?

 

[v00d00]

Have a really good story for why your wife has to return after 2 weeks. It seems a bit suspicious, the whole family crossing but the wife isnt going to stay with her husband? hey will probably ask and will probably want a really good answer. I mean they may ask, why doesnt she stay a month? 2 weeks is so short. So whats your answer?

Dont have any documents that suggest she will be staying longer, such as her resume. They go thru your phone and everything too, so no suspicious text messages.

This is why I'm considering having us each cross separately. That way, I can tell them that I'm returning to live in Canada, I can file the forms to get our stuff and vehicle imported into the country duty and tax free and put that it's arriving later (which it is), and when my wife comes across later it will be just her and my son with their suitcases, which makes it seem more plausible that she's just visiting. It would be nice if we could all cross together hassle free, but I think all of us attempting to enter Canada while at the same time attempting to square away the paperwork really makes everything seem suspicious. It's a 1000 mile drive back to where we'll be coming from, so I really want to keep the risk of denial of entry or intense scrutiny as close to zero as possible. We will of course leave any record of attempting her PR and related paperwork behind and get new copies of everything once we've entered Canada.

I really appreciate everyone's input here, this is the most stressful part of the move and it's nice to get some thoughts from you guys that help keep my mind at ease. Thanks guys.

 

[bartjones]

This is why I'm considering having us each cross separately. That way, I can tell them that I'm returning to live in Canada, I can file the forms to get our stuff and vehicle imported into the country duty and tax free and put that it's arriving later (which it is), and when my wife comes across later it will be just her and my son with their suitcases, which makes it seem more plausible that she's just visiting. It would be nice if we could all cross together hassle free, but I think all of us attempting to enter Canada while at the same time attempting to square away the paperwork really makes everything seem suspicious. It's a 1000 mile drive back to where we'll be coming from, so I really want to keep the risk of denial of entry or intense scrutiny as close to zero as possible. We will of course leave any record of attempting her PR and related paperwork behind and get new copies of everything once we've entered Canada.

I really appreciate everyone's input here, this is the most stressful part of the move and it's nice to get some thoughts from you guys that help keep my mind at ease. Thanks guys.

I'm still not clear why you're so concerned about the crossing. I came here with my Korean wife last May, told the CBSA agent that she had a PR application in process, was coming to 'visit' with me for 6 months and would thereafter be applying to extend her visitor's visa status so she could wait out the PR process with me here in Canada. He gave us a little lecture about how the PR application gave her no status to remain in Canada beyond her 6 month status or any extensions thereof and let us go. Another guy in the Korea thread did the same thing last fall without incident as have many others here on this board.

Ultimately it's your choice and I'll stop pushing advice on you after this post, but I'm still having difficulty understanding why you can't do the same thing.

 

[screech339]

I was able to come back to Canada with my wife who I was going to sponsor inland. I told the border that we were moving back to Canada and intend to sponsor her inland. They let us in no problem. The border agent gave my wife a 6 month visitor visa and advised us to send in a visitor extension application for 1 year in with the PR sponsorship papers. My wife's visitor visa even had PR sponsorship in progress written on it even though I haven't even submitted the application until 2 months later.

BTW: my wife was not even American. She was a foreign national living in US with me on a dependent US visa.

 

[steerpike]

I'm still not clear why you're so concerned about the crossing. I came here with my Korean wife last May, told the CBSA agent that she had a PR application in process, was coming to 'visit' with me for 6 months and would thereafter be applying to extend her visitor's visa status so she could wait out the PR process with me here in Canada. He gave us a little lecture about how the PR application gave her no status to remain in Canada beyond her 6 month status or any extensions thereof and let us go. Another guy in the Korea thread did the same thing last fall without incident as have many others here on this board.

Ultimately it's your choice and I'll stop giving you advice after this post, but I'm still having difficulty understanding why you can't do the same thing.

Technically, a visitor visa is for visitors, and all CBSA officers should always send back people who come on a visitor visa and are not planning to return home. Thats how the rules are written. Apparently they have a lot of discression on this matter, but you are completely at the whim of that CBSA officer. Many people dont like having their lives depend on the whim/mood of a random border guard. So thats why people worry about it and try to minimize the risk.

 

[keesio]

I'm still not clear why you're so concerned about the crossing. I came here with my Korean wife last May, told the CBSA agent that she had a PR application in process, was coming to 'visit' with me for 6 months and would thereafter be applying to extend her visitor's visa status so she could wait out the PR process with me here in Canada. He gave us a little lecture about how the PR application gave her no status to remain in Canada beyond her 6 month status or any extensions thereof and let us go. Another guy in the Korea thread did the same thing last fall without incident as have many others here on this board.

Ultimately it's your choice and I'll stop giving you advice after this post, but I'm still having difficulty understanding why you can't do the same thing.

I watched a rerun of that show "Border Security" last night. It was interesting because on the episode there was a case where a Korean woman was traveling with her Canadian fiance. She told immigration that she was just planning on visiting but would be going back to Korea in a few months. They checked one of her bags and found I think some farewell card that made it clear she wasn't planning on returning anytime soon. The official was asking questions and she confessed that her fiance told her to say she is "just visiting", etc. The official verbally scolded her, told her all she needs is a visitor record and told the truth and she would have been fine. He then let the couple through and told them to be honest in the future as lying is much worse. The couple definitely caught a break there. Anyway, being honest like you were seems to be the best bet.

I was trying to find a video of the episode but the best I could do was this youtube video that was dubbed in Italian. But just watching the video you can see what happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGBo68JrLIg