Residency obligation vs employment

[Hoogenband]

It looks like when I arrive in Canada, I will have been resident only about 30 days in the 5 year period, with about 18 months remaining, so cannot get the 730 days required. I understand that the border officials will still let me enter the country, cos I have a PR card.
Let's assume I find a job, so stay for the following 18 months. What happens to me once my card expires?
Could I just sit tight, or would I have to reapply for new visa, perhaps employer sponsored?

thanks

Hoog

 

[scylla]

If you are able to enter Canada without being reported for failing to meet the residency obligation, then you should remain in Canada (without leaving) until you meet the residency requirement and then apply to renew your PR card.

 

[Hoogenband]

Thank you Scylla,

I am surprised by what you said but you seem to be an expert. The policy seems over generous. Maybe it is just the practicalities of deporting hardworking honest folk.

I think it was Scylla who elsewhere on this board described this as "stay for 2 years and your sins are forgiven" loophole.

If anyone disagrees with Scylla on this point, please point out the mistake.

So in my case, I presume I could enter with 18 months remaining, then outstay my card's validity by 6 months, then apply to renew. But there would be a 6 month period when I couldn't leave the country, even for something like a wedding or, God forbid, a funeral.

 

[zardoz]

Scylla is 100% correct. And, there is no concept of "overstay" for a PR...
You really should do some basic research as you seem not to know how the system works.

Start here... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf
Then read this... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf04-eng.pdf

Finally, work through the rest... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/index.asp

 

[meyakanor]

Thank you Scylla,

I am surprised by what you said but you seem to be an expert. The policy seems over generous. Maybe it is just the practicalities of deporting hardworking honest folk.

I think it was Scylla who elsewhere on this board described this as "stay for 2 years and your sins are forgiven" loophole.

If anyone disagrees with Scylla on this point, please point out the mistake.

So in my case, I presume I could enter with 18 months remaining, then outstay my card's validity by 6 months, then apply to renew. But there would be a 6 month period when I couldn't leave the country, even for something like a wedding or, God forbid, a funeral.

As scylla said, if you can get in without getting reported, then you should stay for two years (731 days) without leaving the country for EVEN A SINGLE DAY in the two year period (not for wedding, not for, God forbid, funeral, not for overseas employment, etc). If you leave (even before the expiration of your PR card), and then come back, you're once again running the risk of getting reported, which can lead to the loss of your PR status.

So come back to Canada as soon as possible, and if you are lucky enough not to be reported at entry, stay and don't leave at all (not even for a single day) for the next two years. If you are reported (which is a possibility since you are now technically already in breach of residency requirements), then you can appeal, but most likely you will lose since the reason for your absence is overseas employment. If you do get in without getting reported, and when your card is close to being expired, DO NOT renew the card until you have stayed more than 731 days (say if you come back tomorrow on Feb 25 2014, do not renew until Feb 26 2016).

 

[Leon]

What scylla said is 100% correct. If you manage to enter without being reported for being in breach of the RO (residency obligation), you would be able to stay for a full 2 years in which case you will meet the RO again and can apply to renew your PR card without any consequences. Immigration own manuals state that this is kosher, see OP 10:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

on page 7 where it says:

For persons who have been permanent residents of Canada for more than five years, the only
five-year period that can be considered in calculating whether an applicant has met the residency
obligation is the one immediately before the application is received in the visa office. A28(2)(b)(ii)
precludes a visa officer from examining any period other than the most recent five-year period
immediately before the date of receipt of the application.

Even if a person had resided away from Canada for many years, but returned to Canada and
resided there for a minimum of 730 days during the last five years, that person would comply with
the residency obligation and remain a permanent resident. An officer is not permitted to consider
just any five-year period in the applicant’s past, but must always assess the most recent five-year
period preceding the receipt of the application.

Maybe this is overly generous but it is the way it is. Maybe they will change it at some point but I haven't seen any plans to.

Your PR status is not dependent on your PR card. There is no obligation to renew your PR card when it expires. As long as you meet the residency obligation and your PR has not been revoked for other reasons such as criminality or misrepresentation, you are still PR.

 

[keesio]

Canada *is* generous (though they seem to be getting more strict). Canada is still one of the most generous nations out there. That's why I find it amusing and also disappointing when people get so critical and angry at Canadian immigration policies (and Canada in general).

 

[Kaa2020]

Your PR status is not dependent on your PR card. There is no obligation to renew your PR card when it expires. As long as you meet the residency obligation and your PR has not been revoked for other reasons such as criminality or misrepresentation, you are still PR.

This is very interesting. I thought the PR status was connected to the PR card as there is a date of expiry on the card. Then the whole purpose of renewing the PR card is to make sure every PR meets the Residency Obligations and give the CIC the chance to revoke any PR who does not meet them, correct?

Then, if the PR status does not depends on the PR card, what kind of problems will face the person that holds an expired card? Travelling, filing tax, applying for any service that requires a government issued ID?

 

[Msafiri]

This is very interesting. I thought the PR status was connected to the PR card as there is a date of expiry on the card. Then the whole purpose of renewing the PR card is to make sure every PR meets the Residency Obligations and give the CIC the chance to revoke any PR who does not meet them, correct?

Then, if the PR status does not depends on the PR card, what kind of problems will face the person that holds an expired card? Travelling, filing tax, applying for any service that requires a government issued ID?

Under the IRPA the PR Card was meant to be a status card for travel purposes. The presumption when you show up at the border with a valid PR Card is that your are a PR on the basis that the document is more secure than the unreal for a travel document that was Form IMM1000 record of landing - too many forgeries. Its not a pass though since you must also meet the RO -depending on who you find at the border you may slide by or it may be the beginning of the end for your PR.

However as time has gone by function creep has developed (Governments know this will happen) and more organizations, businesses, government bodies etc are now requiring a valid PR Card as the only proof of PR status e.g. BC for DL issuance. If you want to take the BC government or any other body to court then you can always challenge this but since most people with this issue probably are in breach of the RO then its a no takers zone. In a few years the Provincial Health Card issuers are bound to go this route.

The RO eh!!

 

[Hasher]

Apparently you are Okay and no one would bother you unless you apply for sponsorship or renewal of PR Card or you travel abroad.

The only problem I can see is when your employer (especially new employer) wants you to prove your legal status in Canada, no matter if you say PR card is only a Travel document and you are legally entitle to live and work in Canada. They are always suspicious. Many suggestions posted on this Forum to convince the companies but sometimes they are stuck with PR Card, with mind set if you are legal then why you are not holding a Valid card.

I hope with the next 18 months you would be able to secure all your IDs, like health card, DL, SIN etc. In some cases it happens to some folks that when they reached to renew their DL they were asked to provide the valid PR card, hope this would not happen with you as you have 18 months.

 

[Hoogenband]

thanks for the replies.
Yeah, the employer issue seems crucial. I have a BC driver's license valid for another 4.5 years, maybe that would help. And I if I could get a health card too, would employers be satisfied? Hope so.

Hoog

 

[subodh12001]

Hi Leon/Scylla,

Does it mean that after getting my PR Card, I return back to India (Home Country), and then in next 5 years, I just make the sole trip to Canada just 10 days before the expiry of PR Card and libe there for 731 days and apply for renewl of PR card. Will my card be renewed???

What scylla said is 100% correct. If you manage to enter without being reported for being in breach of the RO (residency obligation), you would be able to stay for a full 2 years in which case you will meet the RO again and can apply to renew your PR card without any consequences. Immigration own manuals state that this is kosher, see OP 10:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

on page 7 where it says:

Maybe this is overly generous but it is the way it is. Maybe they will change it at some point but I haven't seen any plans to.

Your PR status is not dependent on your PR card. There is no obligation to renew your PR card when it expires. As long as you meet the residency obligation and your PR has not been revoked for other reasons such as criminality or misrepresentation, you are still PR.

 

[zardoz]

Hi Leon/Scylla,

Does it mean that after getting my PR Card, I return back to India (Home Country), and then in next 5 years, I just make the sole trip to Canada just 10 days before the expiry of PR Card and libe there for 731 days and apply for renewl of PR card. Will my card be renewed???

In theory, yes. However, you are likely to be detected when you enter Canada as not having already met the Residency Obligations, reported and risk losing your PR status altogether.

The basic rule in YOUR situation is that from the day you land, you must not spend more than 1094 days outside Canada.