Resettling in Canada, not meeting RO, questions on day count and SIN

[honnuck]

I landed in Canada in the 90s and went back to my country in 1998.
My daughter was born outside of Canada so she does not have PR status. She is going to study in Canada as an overseas student visa from this fall and I have arrived in Canada as a visitor from US in June 16 so I have not applied for the ETA.
I am planning to stay here for 2 years to meet the residence obligations.
I have the following questions and any advice is appreciated:
1. I have traveled back and forth many times as my parents live in Canada, is it going to be a problem when I apply for my residence card?
2. Also I have spent a few months in Canada over the last 3 years during her summer holidays, would I be able to count these towards the residence obligations?
3. Based on review of information on internet, I believe my SIN card has expired. I still have my record of landing but am anxious that I might get reported if I go to Service Canada to re-activate my SIN card. Any advice or comment?
4. I also need to apply for a driving licence, similarly I am a bit anxious but since it is provincial, I guess that it is less risky, again any advice or comment.
5. For application of PR card, documents to prove residence is required. If I do not have a job, how robust does the documentation needs to be?
6. In terms of sponsoring my spouse and daughter to Canada, I suppose I should wait till I have met the residence obligations again?
Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Rob_TO]

1. I have traveled back and forth many times as my parents live in Canada, is it going to be a problem when I apply for my residence card?
2. Also I have spent a few months in Canada over the last 3 years during her summer holidays, would I be able to count these towards the residence obligations?
3. Based on review of information on internet, I believe my SIN card has expired. I still have my record of landing but am anxious that I might get reported if I go to Service Canada to re-activate my SIN card. Any advice or comment?
4. I also need to apply for a driving licence, similarly I am a bit anxious but since it is provincial, I guess that it is less risky, again any advice or comment.
5. For application of PR card, documents to prove residence is required. If I do not have a job, how robust does the documentation needs to be?
6. In terms of sponsoring my spouse and daughter to Canada, I suppose I should wait till I have met the residence obligations again?

1. Any time you leave/re-enter Canada, you face the risk of being discovered as a PR that doesn't meet RO, and process will be started to revoke your PR status. You would then need to appeal this which can take years, but during which time you can stay in Canada until final decision made.
2. Yes, at the time you apply to renew your PR card they will look at past 5 years and all time you spent in Canada during that time will count to your RO.
3. Yes your SIN is probably dormant/inactive. I don't know if SIN and CIC departments talk to each other regularly regarding PRs that have been non-resident such a long time, but since they're both at federal level it may be possible. It's a risk you'll need to take else not work for 2 years.
4. I doubt provincial license dept will talk to CIC, but again you never know
5. You can prove by getting your entry/exit records to/from Canada, showing passport stamps, etc
6. Yes you must wait until you're in compliance with RO before you can sponsor your child. At the time you apply for her, she must meet the definition of dependent child (current aged 18 and under, but possibly increasing to 21 and under in the future).
If you are reported for not meeting RO and need to go through appeals to try and keep your PR status, I don't think you can sponsor her until your appeal is completed

 

[Bs65]

Ref 6 given your daughter is maybe attending uni in fall on a study permit then would assume she is no longer considered a dependant child being 19 or over by the time you have reset PR so can no longer be sponsored through the family stream. Not heard of any proposal to change dependant age to 21 as its only been dropped to under 19 in last couple years so unlikely to flip back again any time soon.

Overall having not been resident for 18 years despite visits there is still a possibilty that you might get challenged at some point for failing RO especially if you apply for a PR card given many of the forms ask for residency history. Worst case given 18 years you could end up with a removal order for not meeting RO just saying as has happened to others once they have been through various appeals.

 

[Rob_TO]

Ref 6 given your daughter is maybe attending uni in fall on a study permit then would assume she is no longer considered a dependant child being 19 or over by the time you have reset PR so can no longer be sponsored through the family stream. Not heard of any proposal to change dependant age to 21 as its only been dropped to under 19 in last couple years so unlikely to flip back again any time soon.

Liberals made this an election promise to increase the age of dependents which Conservative government previously reduced. So I imagine it would happen sometime in the next few years during their first term.

 

[frege]

I landed in Canada in the 90s and went back to my country in 1998.
My daughter was born outside of Canada so she does not have PR status. She is going to study in Canada as an overseas student visa from this fall and I have arrived in Canada as a visitor from US in June 16 so I have not applied for the ETA.
I am planning to stay here for 2 years to meet the residence obligations.
I have the following questions and any advice is appreciated:
1. I have traveled back and forth many times as my parents live in Canada, is it going to be a problem when I apply for my residence card?
2. Also I have spent a few months in Canada over the last 3 years during her summer holidays, would I be able to count these towards the residence obligations?
3. Based on review of information on internet, I believe my SIN card has expired. I still have my record of landing but am anxious that I might get reported if I go to Service Canada to re-activate my SIN card. Any advice or comment?
4. I also need to apply for a driving licence, similarly I am a bit anxious but since it is provincial, I guess that it is less risky, again any advice or comment.
5. For application of PR card, documents to prove residence is required. If I do not have a job, how robust does the documentation needs to be?
6. In terms of sponsoring my spouse and daughter to Canada, I suppose I should wait till I have met the residence obligations again?
Thanks in advance for your help.

I would definitely get advice from a lawyer on whether Service Canada can/does share information with CIC when they investigate a dormant SIN, and whether this could trigger CIC action.

When I returned to Canada a few years back, I had to answer a ton of questions to reactivate my SIN. Even though I was born here and had all the ID imaginable to prove I was me, they still wanted a complete accounting of where I'd been and who I'd worked for since I left. I thought it was quite intrusive considering that I had regularly renewed my Canadian passport during that time and that should have sealed it.

I don't remember whether there would have been any penalty for making false statements to the Service Canada investigator. In any case, reporting that you'd been abroad for many years working for non-Canadian employers wouldn't *on its own* show that you probably hadn't met the residency obligation, because for all they know you could have been married to (and living with) a Canadian citizen. I don't remember getting any questions about my marital status. (But then again, I was a citizen, so even if they had had an interest in enforcing immigration laws, there would have been no point in asking.)

The following post says that plastic SIN cards are valid regardless, but I don't know if that's entirely accurate. The link is dead. http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/old-pr-no-card-no-imm-1000-working-overseas-for-canadian-company-t202012.0.html;msg3117231#msg3117231

With respect to Question 5, Canada is going to be introducing a comprehensive record of when people enter and exit the country pretty soon. That's a double-edged sword because it will be much harder for people who fail the residency obligation to get back in unnoticed, but also much easier for people who have been in Canada to prove they were in Canada. http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1085449

 

[honnuck]

A belated thank you to both for your advices.
It has been almost two years since I resettled in Canada and I my residence obligations were fulfilled since end of March 2018.
Since information in the forum has helped me immensely, I would like to leave some notes just in case someone might find them useful.

I reactivated my dormant SIN back in October 2016 and it went smoothly. I had to show them my landing paper IMM1000 (as I left Canada before PR card was introduced) and old SIN card. They did ask me some questions but there had been no issues.

I am residing in BC and was able to get my driving licence with IMM1000.
Got MSP after the normal wait period, again with IMM1000.

My daughter came to Canada on a student visa for high school. I paid international student fee for the first year. After the first year, with proof that I am residing in BC, I was able to pay local student tuition (she attends an independent school).

I waited for an additional month after my residence obligation was satisfied before I submit an application for PR for my daughter. It was submitted to Mississauga in May and I got a confirmation that it will be processed by Mississauga office last Tuesday (AOR, SA, medical check request also received).

 

[canuck78]

A belated thank you to both for your advices.
It has been almost two years since I resettled in Canada and I my residence obligations were fulfilled since end of March 2018.
Since information in the forum has helped me immensely, I would like to leave some notes just in case someone might find them useful.

I reactivated my dormant SIN back in October 2016 and it went smoothly. I had to show them my landing paper IMM1000 (as I left Canada before PR card was introduced) and old SIN card. They did ask me some questions but there had been no issues.

I am residing in BC and was able to get my driving licence with IMM1000.
Got MSP after the normal wait period, again with IMM1000.

My daughter came to Canada on a student visa for high school. I paid international student fee for the first year. After the first year, with proof that I am residing in BC, I was able to pay local student tuition (she attends an independent school).

I waited for an additional month after my residence obligation was satisfied before I submit an application for PR for my daughter. It was submitted to Mississauga in May and I got a confirmation that it will be processed by Mississauga office last Tuesday (AOR, SA, medical check request also received).

Congratulations .....but the CBSA sucks. There is no way you should not have been caught at the border if you have visited many times since the 90s. Assume you neglected to mention your PR status. Happy to hear that a new computer system that can track time within Canada is coming soon. At least the university should receive a few years of international fees.

 

[honnuck]

Congratulations .....but the CBSA sucks. There is no way you should not have been caught at the border if you have visited many times since the 90s. Assume you neglected to mention your PR status. Happy to hear that a new computer system that can track time within Canada is coming soon. At least the university should receive a few years of international fees.

I actually agree with you that the system is broken and would not have complained if they had removed my PR status. Honestly I was not even aware that I was still a PR and have declared myself as visitor many times when I came to Canada to visit my parents. I only found out that I am still a PR when I was researching for immigration.

 

[dpenabill]

The fact that there are anomalies in outcomes does not mean the system is broken.

CBSA processed more than 20 Million travelers entering Canada last year. More than 20 MILLION! IRCC processes upwards of a HALF MILLION or so immigration and citizenship applications YEAR IN, YEAR OUT. The vast, vast, vast majority of these have outcomes consistent with government policies and objectives.

The evidence strongly suggests that both CBSA and IRCC are functioning remarkably well considering the nature and scope of their mandate.

As for a PR living abroad for many, many years nonetheless being allowed to enter Canada without being reported for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation, there are many potential factors which can have a big influence. And this was more so prior to the full implementation of the eTA process. And in particular was far easier prior to the Harper-era policy changes toward more aggressively enforcing the PR Residency Obligation. The continuing enhancement of border control records and technology supporting maintenance and access has also, over the last eight to ten years, had a big impact.

Until eTA, in particular, a PR with a visa-exempt passport who regularly came and went, and particularly one who at times stayed in Canada for a significant duration, could quite often continue to come and go with little regard for compliance with the PR RO. Similarly, though perhaps a more robust history of entries would have been necessary, for a PR without a visa exempt passport but one who could travel via the U.S. and enter Canada via a land crossing.

For a relatively young PR with extensive family in Canada, with parents in Canada in particular, who has regularly spent time in Canada, it is not particularly surprising there was no interdiction at the PoE two plus years ago. AND, even if there had been a more probing examination, the frequency and duration of time in Canada in conjunction with extensive ties in Canada (parents looming large in this regard) could have been enough to tip the scales toward allowing the PR to retain status.

These days a DIFFERENT outcome is perhaps either probable, or at least has a higher risk, because the PR would likely need to make a PR TD application, in which the full extent of the breach of the PR RO would be recognized (and Visa Offices tend to be more strict about the PR RO than PoE officers). Or if the PR traveled via the U.S., there appears to be more stringent scrutiny if it appears the traveler has come via the U.S. and is apparently evading the eTA process. And again, there are multiple other factors continually elevating scrutiny, enforcement, and CBSA ability to identify potential breach cases.

Of course I do not know how or why this particular outcome occurred. But in general it is not surprising, even if going forward the odds of repeating this scenario tend to be declining.

 

[canuck78]

The fact that there are anomalies in outcomes does not mean the system is broken.

CBSA processed more than 20 Million travelers entering Canada last year. More than 20 MILLION! IRCC processes upwards of a HALF MILLION or so immigration and citizenship applications YEAR IN, YEAR OUT. The vast, vast, vast majority of these have outcomes consistent with government policies and objectives.

The evidence strongly suggests that both CBSA and IRCC are functioning remarkably well considering the nature and scope of their mandate.

As for a PR living abroad for many, many years nonetheless being allowed to enter Canada without being reported for a breach of the PR Residency Obligation, there are many potential factors which can have a big influence. And this was more so prior to the full implementation of the eTA process. And in particular was far easier prior to the Harper-era policy changes toward more aggressively enforcing the PR Residency Obligation. The continuing enhancement of border control records and technology supporting maintenance and access has also, over the last eight to ten years, had a big impact.

Until eTA, in particular, a PR with a visa-exempt passport who regularly came and went, and particularly one who at times stayed in Canada for a significant duration, could quite often continue to come and go with little regard for compliance with the PR RO. Similarly, though perhaps a more robust history of entries would have been necessary, for a PR without a visa exempt passport but one who could travel via the U.S. and enter Canada via a land crossing.

For a relatively young PR with extensive family in Canada, with parents in Canada in particular, who has regularly spent time in Canada, it is not particularly surprising there was no interdiction at the PoE two plus years ago. AND, even if there had been a more probing examination, the frequency and duration of time in Canada in conjunction with extensive ties in Canada (parents looming large in this regard) could have been enough to tip the scales toward allowing the PR to retain status.

These days a DIFFERENT outcome is perhaps either probable, or at least has a higher risk, because the PR would likely need to make a PR TD application, in which the full extent of the breach of the PR RO would be recognized (and Visa Offices tend to be more strict about the PR RO than PoE officers). Or if the PR traveled via the U.S., there appears to be more stringent scrutiny if it appears the traveler has come via the U.S. and is apparently evading the eTA process. And again, there are multiple other factors continually elevating scrutiny, enforcement, and CBSA ability to identify potential breach cases.

Of course I do not know how or why this particular outcome occurred. But in general it is not surprising, even if going forward the odds of repeating this scenario tend to be declining.

Wasn't picked up during visits n the past 4 years on top of earlier visits. Seems crazy that the CBSA and their computer systems didn't pick that up. Not even a flag when his daughter applied for a study permit. Shocking how limited the computer systems are. That is what I find so shocking.