Reported. Appealed. Now what ?

[GodsGiftToCanada]

I entered Canada (British Columbia) last week by land (US border) after slightly more than three years of absence (fourteen years to be exact). I was reported for failing to meet the residency obligation, issued a Departure Order, and given an appeal form in case I wanted to appeal. I just sent my appeal notice. What happens next, and what are my options ?

From reading this forum for the last year, my understanding is that I can get a one year temporary PR card. When can I do that exactly ? Can I contact CIC right away, or do I need to wait for IAD to send me some kind of acknowledgment that they received my appeal ?

The minister's delegate who issued me the departure order told me I have to leave Canada within 30 days, and might be able to come back as a visitor, even if I appeal. I believe he is wrong, and that I don't have to leave Canada until my appeal is rejected/denied (whatever the right term is). What do the experts in this forum think ? He did tell me that they don't issue many of these at his location (I didn't cross near Vancouver - instead, I crossed near smaller towns on both sides of the border). So, maybe he just misunderstood the law. Or am I one who is misunderstanding it.

Tip for people who don't want to be reported. I was reported after I was sent to secondary. The guy didn't tell me why he sent me to secondary, but I believe it's for one or two of the following two reasons:

1) My SUV was full of stuff. I had vacated two days earlier my apartment in the US, put most of the stuff that I kept into storage (outdoor storage inside a van parked outdoors), and brought all my clothes, newer computers (desktop and two laptops), scanner, two boxes of books, tons of supplements, some food .. and all that filled my SUV. When I told the border guy am coming for three months (which was my plan), he told me "it looks like you are moving to Canada".

2) He asked me "when was the last time you have been to Canada", and I told him "August 2003". Yet, I suspect my US passport didn't show any record of entry into Canada, as I had never entered Canada with that passport before.

Before secondary, the guy at the border didn't ask me what my status was in Canada. So, if I traveled light, he might have let me through without sending me to secondary. So, if you want to avoid being reported, travel light to reduce the risk.

I am a US citizen. So, ultimately losing the appeal and the Canadian residency is not a big deal for me. But I need it in the short term, as I had made a commitment to house and cat sit for three months this Summer here in BC, and I in discussions with another BC home and cat owner to house and cat sit four months in Fall and Winter. Trying to enter as a visitor is risky (as in they might not let me in), as I don't have attachments to the US (no residence, no job, no family, no friends, no pets), and it would be hard for me to convince those secondary inspection people that I do intend to leave Canada within six months.

My question again is what's my next step ? Do I wait for IAD to reply, or do I contact CIC right away for a one year PR card.

By the way, I am using my own health issues as grounds for "Human and Compassionate Grounds". I believe I will lose the appeal, as my understanding is that H&C grounds are for caring for somebody else, not for oneself. But, if you can send me any link to any successful case where an immigrant used his own health issues as H&C grounds, that would be very helpful. At this point, since I believe I will lose my appeal, I don't see the point of hiring a lawyer.

One more question: how long is the backlog in Vancouver's IAD office ? That will tell me how long I can stay here.

Final question for today: if CIC grants me a one year PR, can I then leave Canada and come back as I please while the appeal is pending, or do I need additional documents to come back if I were to travel back to the US ? I would like to be able to leave in three months, stay out a little over one month, then come back for four months.

 

[Rob_TO]

You are right, if you appeal then you are still a PR and can stay in Canada indefinitely until your appeal is heard (which can take years in some cases). There is no need to leave Canada. You should also be able to get temporary 1-year validity PR cards while your appeal date is pending.

Also you are right, that your own health reasons are not usually suitable H&C reason to win an appeal. As a Canadian PR, you could have received free healthcare in Canada. It was your personal decision to remain in the US all this time for healthcare. I highly doubt your appeal will be successful, but you never know as each case is unique.

 

[montrealita]

note that before 2017 it used to take years to the hearing, but now they're moving fast my husband got his after only 3 months

 

[GodsGiftToCanada]

... You should also be able to get temporary 1-year validity PR cards while your appeal date is pending.
....

Thanks Rob_TO for your reassuring reply. How do I go exactly about getting the temporary 1-year validity PR card ? Should I just call CIC this Monday, or do I need IAD to send me some reply first so I can prove to CIC that I have a pending appeal ?

 

[GodsGiftToCanada]

note that before 2017 it used to take years to the hearing, but now they're moving fast my husband got his after only 3 months

Thanks Montrealita for that information. In which city did your husband appeal in ?

If he lost his appeal, how long after he lost such an appeal did have to leave ? Did they give him a 30 days delay to leave ?

 

[montrealita]

Thanks Montrealita for that information. In which city did your husband appeal in ?

If he lost his appeal, how long after he lost such an appeal did have to leave ? Did they give him a 30 days delay to leave ?

we're in Montreal. his appeal is on the 10th of July

 

[kishorsankaran]

Hi I am Kishor. I had received my COPR and passport with visa stamped last week. But it is valid only upto Jan. I am skeptical if I may get a job before that. So my friend suggested that I just come to Toronto for 2-3 days next month and complete the formalities and go back to India. I can stay at his place for those days [visit Niagara of course ] and I will give their address as my address and I can get the PR card [which comes in 45 days] delivered it to his place.

My question is " Do we have to physically be present to get the PR card? Can it be couriered to friend's place and we get it from him once he lands India?" Kindly confirm so that I can plan my journey accordingly. Thanks a ton in advance.

Regards,

Kishor Sankaran

 

[GodsGiftToCanada]

I was asked a few questions in a private message by somebody who didn't meet RO, is outside Canada, and hoping to enter Canada by land and not be reported. I don't like responding to private messages as, if I am going to go through the effort of replying, I want several people to learn from it.

Question 1: Which crossing did you use?

Answer 1: Osoyoos. That's south of Kelowna, British Columbia. Look it up on Google Maps.


Question 2: If you were traveling on a US passport, how did the officer know you were a PR?

Answer 2: The Primary Inspection Guy (PIG) didn't. But I am fairly confident that he quickly came to the conclusion that the US passport is not the only passport I ever had. The Secondary Inspection Guy (SIG) is the one who found out I was PR. He was talking to me from his desk while typing on his computer. His first question was whether I bought health insurance for my trip. When I told him no, he told me they make people buy health insurance before entering, and that if I brought my smart phone, there are companies that will sell it to me on the spot. As I was online searching for health insurance, he asked me whether I applied for PR in 2003. I told him yes. So, he found out while searching stuff on his computer. I assume he used my name and birthdate.

The real question is why was I sent to secondary. Here is to the best of my recollection of my conversation with PIG:

Me: Hello.
PIG: Have you been to Canada before ?
Me: Yes.
PIG: When was the last time you have been in Canada ?
Me: August 2003.
PIG: Where do you live ?
Me: I have been living in California for the last 13 years ?
PIG: Did you immigrate to California 13 years ago ?
Me: Well ... I immigrated to the United States, and it was in 1993.
Me: Actually, I came as a student in 1993, then immigrated in 1999.
PIG: How long will you be staying in Canada ?
Me: Three months ?
PIG: Open you back window ..... it looks like you are moving to Canada.
Me: I surrendered my apartment in California two days ago, so I brought a lot of my stuff.
PIG: Do you have any weapons at all ?
Me: No.
PIG: Where will you be staying ?
Me: Penticton.
PIG: Where will you be staying ?
Me: <I gave him the exact address> ..... it's a house.
PIG: You are renting the house ?
Me: No. I will be house sitting. The owners are going on vacation for three months.
PIG: How did you find out about that house ?
Me: HouseCarers.com ... it's a kind of match maker web site.
PIG: Pull over to the left right there, and come inside. They will talk to you.

So, there you go. Since he started asking me questions about my immigration to the US, I came to the conclusion that PIG came to the conclusion that the US passport is not the only passport I ever had. My guess is, he came to that conclusion because I told him that I have been in Canada before, and scanning my passport didn't show any entry into Canada.

I don't know whether he sent me to secondary because he couldn't see the records of my previous entry into Canada, or because I had almost filled my SUV with stuff, or because he wanted me to buy health insurance to cover my three months stay in Canada. The only thing SIG talked to me about before he found out I was PR was health insurance. The only thing I can think of that I could have done differently to minimize the risk of being reported was to leave even more stuff than I had in storage in the US, and travel light.


Question 3: What was the entire process like, for example what happened at Secondary, did the officer or the Minister's Delegate consider your H&C reasons and were they sympathetic? Did they give you any other options to not get issued a Departure Order?

Answer 3: The Minister's Delegate told me that my H&C reasons are not good enough. Prior to that, when SIG found out I was PR, he asked me what I was told about the Residency Obligation when I immigrated, then he told me we can do this two ways. The first option is for me to surrender to PR status and try to enter as a visitor. The second option is for him to report me to his boss, and, if his boss agrees, I will be issued a 30 days removal order. I told him I choose option 2.

 

[rish888]

As regard to you wondering how long you can stay, some people have waited 2 years to have an appeal date, but as an American you shouldn't worry. if you loose the appeal and are given a departure order, you can literally go to the border, get your departure confirmed, then immediately re-enter as an American visitor. (As long as no admissibility issues.) Canada is quite liberal with Americans, so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

As far as regards your question on how long appeals take in Vancouver, I don't know of any appeals tracker per se. But a quick search on Canlii.org for the Vancouver area shows IAD decisions made in the past 6 months involve PRTD denials/Departure Orders issued around 12-14 months before the hearing date.

I would say you should be safe for around a year at least.

 

[scylla]

As regard to you wondering how long you can stay, some people have waited 2 years to have an appeal date, but as an American you shouldn't worry. if you loose the appeal and are given a departure order, you can literally go to the border, get your departure confirmed, then immediately re-enter as an American visitor. (As long as no admissibility issues.) Canada is quite liberal with Americans, so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

I don't really agree with this. Americans can certainly have issues entering Canada if CIC believes they have plans on remaining long term or aren't genuine visitors. Americans are sometimes refused entry and we see 1 year exclusion orders from time to time as well (not due to admissibility issues, but due to looking like they're moving to Canada). If the OP receives a departure order, exits Canada and then immediately tries to re-enter from the US, I would expect problems. This isn't the behaviour of a visitor - it's the behaviour of someone who is attempting to live in Canada after being told they can't. That's the kind of stuff that results in exclusion orders.

 

[rish888]

I don't really agree with this. Americans can certainly have issues entering Canada if CIC believes they have plans on remaining long term or aren't genuine visitors. Americans are sometimes refused entry and we see 1 year exclusion orders from time to time as well (not due to admissibility issues, but due to looking like they're moving to Canada). If the OP receives a departure order, exits Canada and then immediately tries to re-enter from the US, I would expect problems. This isn't the behaviour of a visitor - it's the behaviour of someone who is attempting to live in Canada after being told they can't. That's the kind of stuff that results in exclusion orders.

Fair enough.

Sorry if I came across as being literal, I was saying this more in the context of an American being issued a departure order (usually) does not create the same inconvenience that other FN's would have. However, the OP can request admission as a visitor after certifying his departure order. (Not leaving Canada then trying to enter at another POE etc.) but make a request then and there to the same IO. I don't think that would result in an exclusion order, worst case the officer will deny his request.