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renewing PR card with RC1 PRTD

ndrmsvt

Newbie
Aug 8, 2021
4
0
Hi all,
My wife and I are in Canada with PRTD RC1 - with an approved H&S by IRCC in ABUDHABI.
we are in Canada now and still RO is not met. any experience/advise whether we should wait for meeting RO or apply for PR card renewal now?
note pls if we want to wait, it is a long wait until end of 2022. the main reason is that PRTD was taking so long, and so our travel arrangement so all our time in Canada is not counted anymore (only 5 previous year).
many thanks in advance
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,781
1,754
Job Offer........
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Hi all,
My wife and I are in Canada with PRTD RC1 - with an approved H&S by IRCC in ABUDHABI.
we are in Canada now and still RO is not met. any experience/advise whether we should wait for meeting RO or apply for PR card renewal now?
note pls if we want to wait, it is a long wait until end of 2022. the main reason is that PRTD was taking so long, and so our travel arrangement so all our time in Canada is not counted anymore (only 5 previous year).
many thanks in advance
Stay straight to the end of 2022 and wait until you meet your RO unless you have multiple entry PRTD.
 

ndrmsvt

Newbie
Aug 8, 2021
4
0
thanks, but both ABUDHABI officer who did interview with us and the border officer said renew PR now. Lots of different opinions are there, but how they can reject while we have multiple PRTD and they already accepted our H&S case?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
thanks, but both ABUDHABI officer who did interview with us and the border officer said renew PR now. Lots of different opinions are there, but how they can reject while we have multiple PRTD and they already accepted our H&S case?
How much time do you have in Canada in the past 5 years?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hi all,
My wife and I are in Canada with PRTD RC1 - with an approved H&S by IRCC in ABUDHABI.
we are in Canada now and still RO is not met. any experience/advise whether we should wait for meeting RO or apply for PR card renewal now?
note pls if we want to wait, it is a long wait until end of 2022. the main reason is that PRTD was taking so long, and so our travel arrangement so all our time in Canada is not counted anymore (only 5 previous year).
many thanks in advance
It is OK to apply for a new PR card soon. The positive H&C decision "overcomes" any breach of the PR Residency Obligation prior to that determination. So, as long as you are IN Canada since returning here using the RC1 coded PR Travel Document, you are NOT in breach of the RO regardless how long you were abroad, how little you were in Canada previously. Meaning you meet the eligibility requirements for being issued a PR card. Meaning you can apply for a new PR card without having to stay long enough IN Canada to meet the 730 days IN Canada within five years obligation.

To some extent, the positive H&C decision restarts the RO clock. But how that works in practice is not the same as how the clock starts for a new PR. So . . . So this comes with some caveats. Some reason to be cautious. Note, in particular, this does NOT guarantee it would be OK to travel outside Canada anytime soon. Particularly not for any lengthy period of time.

SUMMARY: If you are now IN Canada, staying in Canada, and do not leave Canada, it is OK to make the PR card application without waiting.


The Longer Explanation With Caveats:

The RC1 coding means that IRCC, in a visa office abroad, has made a determination that there are sufficient humanitarian and compassionate reasons that justify allowing you to keep PR status despite failing to spend at least 730 days in Canada within the five years preceding the date the PR TD application was made. This is a formal adjudication of your PR status. It is binding on the IRCC. And on CBSA as well. Thus, for example, not only did it mean you could board a flight headed to Canada, it also meant that upon arrival in Canada CBSA was required to acknowledge you had valid PR status and were not inadmissible due to any PREVIOUS breach of the RO.

Here is what the applicable statute, which is subsection 28(2)(c) IRPA (should link) states:
a determination by an officer that humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to a permanent resident, taking into account the best interests of a child directly affected by the determination, justify the retention of permanent resident status overcomes any breach of the residency obligation prior to the determination.

Just to be clear, assuming there are no children involved, this is not, NOT at ALL limited to cases involving children. That is, to understand this in any case not involving a child, you can ignore the phrase about the best interests of a child; that is, it means:
a determination by an officer that humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to a permanent resident . . . justify the retention of permanent resident status overcomes any breach of the residency obligation prior to the determination.

In other words, once the visa office made that determination, your status as a PR has been formally adjudicated. So subsection 31(1) IRPA mandates you are an individual who "shall" (in context meaning "must") be provided with a document indicating your status as a Permanent Resident.

Which means, again, that as long as you have returned to Canada and are IN Canada, staying in Canada, there is no problem (related to PR RO issues) with applying for a new PR card soon. NO need to wait like @steaky suggests.

As noted, to some extent this restarts the RO clock. What this actually means in practice, or how it works when the PR is examined for RO compliance, can be a little complicated, as I also noted, subject to caveats, some CAUTIONS.

A PR can be examined for RO compliance any day. On any day the PR is examined for RO compliance, the calculation is based on THAT day.

Typically a PR is only examined for RO compliance attendant particular events:
-- screening PR at a Port-of-Entry upon arrival from abroad, for which the RO calculation is based on that date, the date of arrival​
-- determining whether to issue a PR TD to a PR abroad, for which the RO calculation is based on the date of the application​
-- determining whether to issue a PR card, for which the RO calculation is based on the date of the application OR the date of a formal examination during processing of that application (PR gets the benefit of meeting the RO either date)​
-- determining whether the PR is eligible to sponsor a family member for PR attendant a sponsorship application; here too, the date of the application is the primary date of the RO calculation, but the PR would generally get the benefit of meeting the RO as of the date of a formal examination even if the PR was not in compliance on the date the application was made​

A PR who is IN Canada can thus avoid triggering any RO compliance examination by simply NOT making any applications and NOT traveling outside Canada. Thus the conventional wisdom for any PR who is in Canada but who has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, to WAIT until they have been IN Canada long enough to be in compliance, BEFORE they do any of these things.

Example: even though a PR failed to comply with the RO in the past, if the PR has been IN Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years as of the day the PR makes a PR card application, the PR is in compliance, is not "inadmissible" for failing to comply with the RO, and thus is safe to make an application for a new PR card.

Your situation is different. You have already benefitted from an adjudication that there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status despite failing to comply with the RO.

This is where it gets complicated. But first, it warrants emphasis that there is NO NEED for things to get complicated . . . the PR who has already benefitted from a formal positive H&C decision can (1) rely on that decision, and thus for example return to Canada using the PR TD issued based on that decision, and (2) once IN Canada, and staying in Canada, can rely on that decision to apply for a new PR card. This PR can then, just like any other PR who is IN Canada, but who has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, avoid any further examination of their compliance with the RO by STAYING in Canada until they have been in Canada long enough to be in compliance counting days. Simple (if staying in Canada is simple). Not complicated. And, mostly, SAFE.

If that is your plan, with no foreseeable travel outside Canada for the next two years, or at least close to that, no need to grapple with the more complicated aspects of how a formal H&C decision works.

So I will just skim the surface of the more complicated aspects:

If you travel abroad before spending two years in Canada, this would be particularly risky if you do not yet have a new PR card and must apply for a new PR TD in order to return to Canada. The relevant date for calculating RO compliance will be the date of that PR TD application. That is a different date, a different calculation, than the one done for the PR TD you were already issued. Different circumstances. Potentially a different outcome. A lot of weight would be given to the previous H&C decision, but the circumstances have changed. Very, very difficult to forecast HOW-RISKY this would be. Obviously, the less time spent in Canada since before, and the more time abroad, the bigger the risk.

If you travel abroad before spending two years in Canada but you have gotten your new PR card, this is a lot less risky but here again a PR can be examined for RO compliance upon arrival at the PoE when returning to Canada, and that examination will be based on THAT DAY. So, for example, if the PR has been settled and staying in Canada, and the trip abroad was brief, the risk should be quite low.

BUT the PR who has received a favourable H&C decision does not get the benefit of counting future days like a new PR does. There is a difference with how RO compliance is calculated for a new PR. The new PR gets credit for all the days in the five years AFTER the date they became a PR unless, that is EXCEPT, those days the PR is actually outside Canada. So, for example, the PR who landed two years ago today, who has spent 35 days in Canada so far, has 1130 days credit toward meeting the RO. Of course if that PR is abroad, that number goes down every day. BUT how it works for the PR who benefitted from the positive H&C decision depends on the circumstances for the last five years, as of the date the PR arrives at a PoE returning to Canada, with the previous H&C decision carrying a lot of weight, but not with credit for any future days. So it can get very complicated.

Best to avoid travel abroad for as long as practical. At least long enough to more or less be fully settled in Canada. And until in full compliance, limit travel abroad to brief trips.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,605
13,529
It is OK to apply for a new PR card soon. The positive H&C decision "overcomes" any breach of the PR Residency Obligation prior to that determination. So, as long as you are IN Canada since returning here using the RC1 coded PR Travel Document, you are NOT in breach of the RO regardless how long you were abroad, how little you were in Canada previously. Meaning you meet the eligibility requirements for being issued a PR card. Meaning you can apply for a new PR card without having to stay long enough IN Canada to meet the 730 days IN Canada within five years obligation.

To some extent, the positive H&C decision restarts the RO clock. But how that works in practice is not the same as how the clock starts for a new PR. So . . . So this comes with some caveats. Some reason to be cautious. Note, in particular, this does NOT guarantee it would be OK to travel outside Canada anytime soon. Particularly not for any lengthy period of time.

SUMMARY: If you are now IN Canada, staying in Canada, and do not leave Canada, it is OK to make the PR card application without waiting.


The Longer Explanation With Caveats:


The RC1 coding means that IRCC, in a visa office abroad, has made a determination that there are sufficient humanitarian and compassionate reasons that justify allowing you to keep PR status despite failing to spend at least 730 days in Canada within the five years preceding the date the PR TD application was made. This is a formal adjudication of your PR status. It is binding on the IRCC. And on CBSA as well. Thus, for example, not only did it mean you could board a flight headed to Canada, it also meant that upon arrival in Canada CBSA was required to acknowledge you had valid PR status and were not inadmissible due to any PREVIOUS breach of the RO.

Here is what the applicable statute, which is subsection 28(2)(c) IRPA (should link) states:
a determination by an officer that humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to a permanent resident, taking into account the best interests of a child directly affected by the determination, justify the retention of permanent resident status overcomes any breach of the residency obligation prior to the determination.

Just to be clear, assuming there are no children involved, this is not, NOT at ALL limited to cases involving children. That is, to understand this in any case not involving a child, you can ignore the phrase about the best interests of a child; that is, it means:
a determination by an officer that humanitarian and compassionate considerations relating to a permanent resident . . . justify the retention of permanent resident status overcomes any breach of the residency obligation prior to the determination.

In other words, once the visa office made that determination, your status as a PR has been formally adjudicated. So subsection 31(1) IRPA mandates you are an individual who "shall" (in context meaning "must") be provided with a document indicating your status as a Permanent Resident.

Which means, again, that as long as you have returned to Canada and are IN Canada, staying in Canada, there is no problem (related to PR RO issues) with applying for a new PR card soon. NO need to wait like @steaky suggests.

As noted, to some extent this restarts the RO clock. What this actually means in practice, or how it works when the PR is examined for RO compliance, can be a little complicated, as I also noted, subject to caveats, some CAUTIONS.

A PR can be examined for RO compliance any day. On any day the PR is examined for RO compliance, the calculation is based on THAT day.

Typically a PR is only examined for RO compliance attendant particular events:
-- screening PR at a Port-of-Entry upon arrival from abroad, for which the RO calculation is based on that date, the date of arrival​
-- determining whether to issue a PR TD to a PR abroad, for which the RO calculation is based on the date of the application​
-- determining whether to issue a PR card, for which the RO calculation is based on the date of the application OR the date of a formal examination during processing of that application (PR gets the benefit of meeting the RO either date)​
-- determining whether the PR is eligible to sponsor a family member for PR attendant a sponsorship application; here too, the date of the application is the primary date of the RO calculation, but the PR would generally get the benefit of meeting the RO as of the date of a formal examination even if the PR was not in compliance on the date the application was made​

A PR who is IN Canada can thus avoid triggering any RO compliance examination by simply NOT making any applications and NOT traveling outside Canada. Thus the conventional wisdom for any PR who is in Canada but who has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, to WAIT until they have been IN Canada long enough to be in compliance, BEFORE they do any of these things.

Example: even though a PR failed to comply with the RO in the past, if the PR has been IN Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years as of the day the PR makes a PR card application, the PR is in compliance, is not "inadmissible" for failing to comply with the RO, and thus is safe to make an application for a new PR card.

Your situation is different. You have already benefitted from an adjudication that there are sufficient H&C reasons to allow you to retain PR status despite failing to comply with the RO.

This is where it gets complicated. But first, it warrants emphasis that there is NO NEED for things to get complicated . . . the PR who has already benefitted from a formal positive H&C decision can (1) rely on that decision, and thus for example return to Canada using the PR TD issued based on that decision, and (2) once IN Canada, and staying in Canada, can rely on that decision to apply for a new PR card. This PR can then, just like any other PR who is IN Canada, but who has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, avoid any further examination of their compliance with the RO by STAYING in Canada until they have been in Canada long enough to be in compliance counting days. Simple (if staying in Canada is simple). Not complicated. And, mostly, SAFE.

If that is your plan, with no foreseeable travel outside Canada for the next two years, or at least close to that, no need to grapple with the more complicated aspects of how a formal H&C decision works.

So I will just skim the surface of the more complicated aspects:

If you travel abroad before spending two years in Canada, this would be particularly risky if you do not yet have a new PR card and must apply for a new PR TD in order to return to Canada. The relevant date for calculating RO compliance will be the date of that PR TD application. That is a different date, a different calculation, than the one done for the PR TD you were already issued. Different circumstances. Potentially a different outcome. A lot of weight would be given to the previous H&C decision, but the circumstances have changed. Very, very difficult to forecast HOW-RISKY this would be. Obviously, the less time spent in Canada since before, and the more time abroad, the bigger the risk.

If you travel abroad before spending two years in Canada but you have gotten your new PR card, this is a lot less risky but here again a PR can be examined for RO compliance upon arrival at the PoE when returning to Canada, and that examination will be based on THAT DAY. So, for example, if the PR has been settled and staying in Canada, and the trip abroad was brief, the risk should be quite low.

BUT the PR who has received a favourable H&C decision does not get the benefit of counting future days like a new PR does. There is a difference with how RO compliance is calculated for a new PR. The new PR gets credit for all the days in the five years AFTER the date they became a PR unless, that is EXCEPT, those days the PR is actually outside Canada. So, for example, the PR who landed two years ago today, who has spent 35 days in Canada so far, has 1130 days credit toward meeting the RO. Of course if that PR is abroad, that number goes down every day. BUT how it works for the PR who benefitted from the positive H&C decision depends on the circumstances for the last five years, as of the date the PR arrives at a PoE returning to Canada, with the previous H&C decision carrying a lot of weight, but not with credit for any future days. So it can get very complicated.

Best to avoid travel abroad for as long as practical. At least long enough to more or less be fully settled in Canada. And until in full compliance, limit travel abroad to brief trips.
Agree that normally there is no issue with PRTD RC1 renewing their PR card but I also wonder if there is more to this story. They received a multiple entry PRTD which is very unusual unless you are a spouse living with a Canadian abroad. I wonder why. PRTD took so long that none of their time in Canada counts also suggest they’ve been out of Canada for over 5 years which makes the multiple entry even more unusual.
 

ndrmsvt

Newbie
Aug 8, 2021
4
0
Thank you guys,
we have spent around 500 days in Canada for the past 5 years. we have also 4 kids born in CANADA.
I will apply to renew as I also believe since my H&C is approved, it should remain valid. And I should not make further gaps.
my question now is since the PR renewal form has no place for H&C, should I explain everything in the cover letter?
Thanks again
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Thank you guys,
we have spent around 500 days in Canada for the past 5 years. we have also 4 kids born in CANADA.
I will apply to renew as I also believe since my H&C is approved, it should remain valid. And I should not make further gaps.
my question now is since the PR renewal form has no place for H&C, should I explain everything in the cover letter?
Thanks again
The fact there are Canadian citizen children involved helps explain more than a little. As the statutory provision I previously cited and linked rather saliently indicates, the best interest of a child tends to be among the most important H&C factors, enough to get it explicitly referenced in that statute.

As for "my question now is since the PR renewal form has no place for H&C, should I explain everything in the cover letter?"

Probably not necessary but should help. Probably a good idea. No need to go into extensive detail. Object is to be sure the initial processing agent reviewing the application does not overlook the GCMS record showing the favourable H&C determination, which could help to avoid a more lengthy processing time.


Agree that normally there is no issue with PRTD RC1 renewing their PR card but I also wonder if there is more to this story. They received a multiple entry PRTD which is very unusual unless you are a spouse living with a Canadian abroad. I wonder why. PRTD took so long that none of their time in Canada counts also suggest they’ve been out of Canada for over 5 years which makes the multiple entry even more unusual.
I overlooked the OP's reference to having "multiple PRTD" and if that is in reference to a multiple-entry PR TD, rather than multiple PR TDs, one for each individual, that would suggest something at least somewhat different than most H&C cases. It would indeed be unusual to see a multiple-entry PR TD issued on H&C grounds.

OP appears to have answered why there is "more to this story," as in there are four Canadian citizen children involved.
 

ndrmsvt

Newbie
Aug 8, 2021
4
0
yes - it is 'multiple' PRTD for each of us - 1 year. I think it is because of possible delays in processing due to COVID.
I think the best is to follow ABUDHABI officer's advise (each of us did interview with him explained the travel bans, my father's medical surgeries, reasons being away, etc) on renewing PR when in Canada. so things will be straight forward.
thanks,
pls let me know of any similar case, RC-1 and renewing IN Canada upon arrival?
 
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