Rejections due to no duties on ref. letter - VO tracking & MP pressure group

[sashali78]

Hi All,

As there have been more and more cases of CEC applications rejected simply due to the fact that an applicant could not provide a letter detailing his/her duties and responsibilities i think its time to build a database of VO's who have been rejecting applications on the aforementioned grounds.
I'd like to track only cases where the reason for rejection was due to unability to prove SKILLED work experience although additional/alternative supporting documents were provided and it is clear that the ruling of VO was made on purely technical reasons in contrast with the rest of supporting evidence.
The request for detailed reference letter is absurd by itself, it is not a legal or government document which can be obtained for 100% of applicants. Employers often refused to provide such a letter and as such it simply CANNOT be classified as the only document which can prove skilled work experience.
I think anybody who had their case refused for such reasons have a good opportunity to complain to their local MP's. Moreover, we might want to make a pressure group through MP's to request CIC to reopen the cases and change their operating procedures.

 

[jaihanuman]

Same here.
My case was refused on nov 23rd.
I reapplied again in december with duties.

 

[gta-tor-etob]

Same here,

First Submitted Feb 2012, Refused July 2012
Second Submitted 2012/08/13

Category........: CEC
Status...........: Reapplied
Visa Office......: CPP-O
NOC Code......: 2281
App. Filed.......: 2012/08/08
AOR Received..: 2012/08/13
IELTS Request.: Sent Together
MR................: Waiting
App. Status....: Recieved

 

[gta-tor-etob]

I am really wondering about you, applicants, who apply with such letters without duties!
it is really very clear and explicitly indicated in the application guidelines that you have to put your duties.
I think CIC guys follow a flowchart evaluation, so if you miss something; simply expect a rejection.

Good luck for all of you in next times and please follow up guidelines CAREFULLY.

Hi eng3a:

In my case, as i have 2 jobs added: 1st job worked 8 months, 2nd job worked 9 months. 3 of my friends got their PR with same sanereo (same companies, previous and present) as 1st company letter was submitted with job title, hours and from-to info. My file was rejected while submitted same info/docs. So there is definately some kind of error in process/workflow..



gta-tor-etob

 

[sashali78]

Here is a Google shared file, please put your details in it:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aui2RQO5umnddFA5cFR4Z3J4Y2d5ODZlUDZpaE9RV3c#gid=0

Once we have enough data about VO and cases we can approach MP.

 

[sashali78]

I am really wondering about you, applicants, who apply with such letters without duties!
it is really very clear and explicitly indicated in the application guidelines that you have to put your duties.
I think CIC guys follow a flowchart evaluation, so if you miss something; simply expect a rejection.

Good luck for all of you in next times and please follow up guidelines CAREFULLY.

You are missing a point. Not everyone can get such a letter. It is not a legal or government document. Not every company will issue it. duties on such letter may be different than NOC classifications. All this reference letter matter puts too much force and judgement in the hands of office clerk.

 

[shibinp]

I personally know 3 cases which got refused recently for the same reason - "no roles and responsibilities".
All these guys are working for big MNCs (including me) and the reality with MNCs are they have a "system" in place for all processes instead of persons, so it is hard to get a letter according to our wish. If we request an experience letter it would "automatically" created based on a pre-existing format and the manager only need to fill just name, date etc. The main format for that letter is already accepted and approved by company policy and it is real hard to get that changed or bias the manager to take the risk him/herself to give special consideration for one or two employees.

But yea, we can give other proofs and if it is valid I see no reason in rejection by a VO by just telling it is not mentioned in the company letter.

I support sashali78 for this cause..

 

[gta-tor-etob]

I personally know 3 cases which got refused recently for the same reason - "no roles and responsibilities".
All these guys are working for big MNCs (including me) and the reality with MNCs are they have a "system" in place for all processes instead of persons, so it is hard to get a letter according to our wish. If we request an experience letter it would "automatically" created based on a pre-existing format and the manager only need to fill just name, date etc. The main format for that letter is already accepted and approved by company policy and it is real hard to get that changed or bias the manager to take the risk him/herself to give special consideration for one or two employees.

But yea, we can give other proofs and if it is valid I see no reason in rejection by a VO by just telling it is not mentioned in the company letter.

I support sashali78 for this cause..

Agree to the point, famous big companies like telephone/internet companies in Canada (name can not be listed) their HR are only via phone and they simply mail you these job reference letter with basie info, if you get lucky which is 1% and you have friendly relation with your manager/TL, they will write the letter on their own risk. but normally does not happen. I sent my file 2nd time with email notarised showing rudely declined of letter by HR Manager "no letter will be provided with job info and we will not respond to any inquiry in future". Now if someone still think getting letter is possible, i will more than welcome to discuss!

gta-tor-etob

 

[sashali78]

I personally know 3 cases which got refused recently for the same reason - "no roles and responsibilities".
All these guys are working for big MNCs (including me) and the reality with MNCs are they have a "system" in place for all processes instead of persons, so it is hard to get a letter according to our wish. If we request an experience letter it would "automatically" created based on a pre-existing format and the manager only need to fill just name, date etc. The main format for that letter is already accepted and approved by company policy and it is real hard to get that changed or bias the manager to take the risk him/herself to give special consideration for one or two employees.

But yea, we can give other proofs and if it is valid I see no reason in rejection by a VO by just telling it is not mentioned in the company letter.

I support sashali78 for this cause..

Thanks! If you can get their details it will help. If nobody complains the current situation will just prevail.

Johnny31 - you are mistaken. MP's are usually very helpful, besides, everybody understands that CEC applicant , even if once rejected, will eventually become PR and a voter.

 

[jes_ON]

You are missing a point. Not everyone can get such a letter. It is not a legal or government document. Not every company will issue it.

Two of the above posters stated that they re-applied with duties, so they were evidently ABLE to get it, they simply failed to do it the first time. Many applicants, for some reason, are unable to read/understand the instructions and do it correctly the first time.

For my part, the problem isn't the CIC requirement - it is a perfectly reasonable and non-controversial request to ask for a letter of employment, and the vast majority of legitimate Canadian employers will happily provide these letters. This is an expected norm.

The problem is the handful of companies that won't - in a few cases, some of them won't because they are violating various laws and don't want to put it in writing. But my impression is that the vast majority who have this problem appear to be from India, working for Indian MNC IT companies. (And since they are large, it happens to a disproportionate number of applicants).

I could be wrong, tho, so, my suggestion would be to add company info to your file to collect evidence about which companies are violating your rights. This information would benefit other applicants, of course, but more importantly, could possibly suggest a different strategy to pursue, one that is more likely to succeed.

 

[gta-tor-etob]

Two of the above posters stated that they re-applied with duties, so they were evidently ABLE to get it, they simply failed to do it the first time. Many applicants, for some reason, are unable to read/understand the instructions and do it correctly the first time.

For my part, the problem isn't the CIC requirement - it is a perfectly reasonable and non-controversial request to ask for a letter of employment, and the vast majority of legitimate Canadian employers will happily provide these letters. This is an expected norm.

The problem is the handful of companies that won't - in a few cases, some of them won't because they are violating various laws and don't want to put it in writing. But my impression is that the vast majority who have this problem appear to be from India, working for Indian MNC IT companies. (And since they are large, it happens to a disproportionate number of applicants).

I could be wrong, tho, so, my suggestion would be to add company info to your file to collect evidence about which companies are violating your rights. This information would benefit other applicants, of course, but more importantly, could possibly suggest a different strategy to pursue, one that is more likely to succeed.

Hi JEs,

In my case, i DID NOT get the letter on 2nd time. I sent my file on behalf of my current/2nd/present job. But i added email lettter saying "We wont give you anything" to explain why i didnot added the letter in my first attempt/file.

 

[sashali78]

Two of the above posters stated that they re-applied with duties, so they were evidently ABLE to get it, they simply failed to do it the first time. Many applicants, for some reason, are unable to read/understand the instructions and do it correctly the first time.

For my part, the problem isn't the CIC requirement - it is a perfectly reasonable and non-controversial request to ask for a letter of employment, and the vast majority of legitimate Canadian employers will happily provide these letters. This is an expected norm.

The problem is the handful of companies that won't - in a few cases, some of them won't because they are violating various laws and don't want to put it in writing. But my impression is that the vast majority who have this problem appear to be from India, working for Indian MNC IT companies. (And since they are large, it happens to a disproportionate number of applicants).

I could be wrong, tho, so, my suggestion would be to add company info to your file to collect evidence about which companies are violating your rights. This information would benefit other applicants, of course, but more importantly, could possibly suggest a different strategy to pursue, one that is more likely to succeed.

Thanks for the suggestion JES. However, I do not think it is wise to put company/employers names, file #, etc on a public document/forum. I think once the group is organized we can track it as a private information.
BTW, are you sure that company violates any laws by not providing a detailed letter? As far as I am aware they are only lawfully obliged to provide the short version (start/end of employment, salary , position). If you have a specific information regarding this , please elaborate as it would be helpful to all readers.

 

[gta-tor-etob]

Two of the above posters stated that they re-applied with duties, so they were evidently ABLE to get it, they simply failed to do it the first time. Many applicants, for some reason, are unable to read/understand the instructions and do it correctly the first time.

For my part, the problem isn't the CIC requirement - it is a perfectly reasonable and non-controversial request to ask for a letter of employment, and the vast majority of legitimate Canadian employers will happily provide these letters. This is an expected norm.

The problem is the handful of companies that won't - in a few cases, some of them won't because they are violating various laws and don't want to put it in writing. But my impression is that the vast majority who have this problem appear to be from India, working for Indian MNC IT companies. (And since they are large, it happens to a disproportionate number of applicants).

I could be wrong, tho, so, my suggestion would be to add company info to your file to collect evidence about which companies are violating your rights. This information would benefit other applicants, of course, but more importantly, could possibly suggest a different strategy to pursue, one that is more likely to succeed.

Just so I clear everyone, here is the communication message from email chain i added in my file, from HR manager from MNC Mississauga:

XXMY NAMEXX, I will not submit anything in writing. This is my last communication with you.

 

[shibinp]

The problem is the handful of companies that won't - in a few cases, some of them won't because they are violating various laws and don't want to put it in writing. But my impression is that the vast majority who have this problem appear to be from India, working for Indian MNC IT companies. (And since they are large, it happens to a disproportionate number of applicants).

2 of the 3 cases I explained above are US head quartered MNCs, not Indian. I am not sure if you are working for a corporate company / MNC, if you are then you would have understood the situation..

 

[shibinp]

to add to this, this is the response I got from manager:

"Hello, XYZ, I have sent you a 'XYZ' letter - this is the only approved letter by XYZCompany Canada Legal, that I am authorized to provide you. "

So as I said in my another thread, I am planning to send below to prove my employment:

1. Petition prepared by company for WP - It is on company letter head and has roles and responsibility and many other detail. Also has LMO
2. Original offer letter and extension letters (if applicable)
3. Pay-stubs / T4
4. Print out of the email from my manager which states that as per company policy this is the approved format and they can give the letter only in that format.
5. The letter I received from company (as per company approved format)
6. Cover letter explaining the situation of company letter and what extra we have submitted to prove that.