Rejected.

[Pitt1234]

Cheer up Lena! I guess you would have faced worse that this in the past. These are some truly ret'ard questions. But said that, now you have to fight this. The good thing is that there was no procedural or malpractice involved. That's really good!

You can appeal and overturn this judgement. You may start your appeal process and get a copy of your entire file. They would have to give you a copy of ALL the questions they asked, and your answers, and their reasoning for visa rejection. Start collecting relationship proofs: photos, emails, call logs, chat logs, any cards, flight tickets, letters from friends/neighbors/relatives describing your relationship and other proofs.

I suggest you:
1) Submit appeal through a competent lawyer within 30 days deadline.
2) Try for ADR instead of full hearing. http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/ImmApp/Pages/IadSaiAdrMarGuideAppMarAdd.aspx
3) Prove by all means that the relationship is genuine. Again, collect as many docs as you can collect to demonstrate genuine relationship.

You're correct.
I just stopped writing that because I thought it didn't matter and people really don't want to get involved in cases like these.
Anyways, reasons for refusal were.
Lack of intimate pictures. I've never taken those in my whole life.
No knowledge about the vibrant Toronto gay community. I never said I was part of it. I honestly said that we do not go there. Why is it important to go.
They asked when Toronto pride is, and my husband said the wrong date.
Also they thought it was weird that he didn't know the exact date when I came out to his family. I knew a year. I don't even know when I came out to my family. Who remembers these dates?
Anyways, it's all fixable, we will get more pictures and go to gay bars if that's what it takes. I'm just wondering how to do all of that if he's not allowed to come back.

 

[lena2010]

Cheer up Lena! I guess you would have faced worse that this in the past. These are some truly ret'ard questions. But said that, now you have to fight this. The good thing is that there was no procedural or malpractice involved. That's really good!

You can appeal and overturn this judgement. You may start your appeal process and get a copy of your entire file. They would have to give you a copy of ALL the questions they asked, and your answers, and their reasoning for visa rejection. Start collecting relationship proofs: photos, emails, call logs, chat logs, any cards, flight tickets, letters from friends/neighbors/relatives describing your relationship and other proofs.

I suggest you:
1) Submit appeal through a competent lawyer within 30 days deadline.
2) Try for ADR instead of full hearing. http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/ImmApp/Pages/IadSaiAdrMarGuideAppMarAdd.aspx
3) Prove by all means that the relationship is genuine. Again, collect as many docs as you can collect to demonstrate genuine relationship.

Hello
Thanks for the info guys. But how will I get any more proof if he does not get his trv so he can come here? I mean, we will be exchanging E mails, I will be sending him money. If he doesn't get his trv to come back I might even go back to Bosnia to visit him.
I really hope to hey
What is the shorter procedure, appeal or reapplying again?

 

[Landagirl]

I am thinking reapplying may be quicker than appealing. It doesn't sound like there was any misrepresentation going on so that is good. I would try to get the proof they are looking for as quick as possible so you can reapply. I know it is hard on both of you but keep your heads held high and good luck on his TRV and hopefully this time the outcome will be in your favour.

 

[lena2010]

Thanks guys
Well, first of all I need to sleep.
This has brought up such a burden on both of us on so many levels. I don't even know what am I gonna do without him financially if he's not approved for trv so he can continue working. He says we should just wait and see if he will get the trv, but I'm thinking we should be making plans as if there's no chance of getting it.
Here's what I have thought. I will borrow some money and visit him back home, if he doesn't come back. I cannot stay longer than 10 days as I have to work to pay for our bills here. In those 10 days we will take as many intimate pictures as we can and maybe some with our family members who are more open minded and could accept the fact that we are gay. During that time we will travel all over the place and maybe get involved I gay community, although that is really not our cup of tea. But if that's what it takes so be it. I will also figure out a precise date to state when I came out to my ex common law partner, although I never really came out to her, she figured it out. Pictures with my children are out of the picture because they do not accept my marriage, and they would never come to Bosnia to visit him. So if we collect all tickets, receipts, pictures, more letters from our friends and members of the Bosnian gay community, would that be enough?
I don't even know if there's Bosnian gay community, but I will find one

 

[lena2010]

I am thinking reapplying may be quicker than appealing. It doesn't sound like there was any misrepresentation going on so that is good. I would try to get the proof they are looking for as quick as possible so you can reapply. I know it is hard on both of you but keep your heads held high and good luck on his TRV and hopefully this time the outcome will be in your favour.

There was no misrepresentation, just one Vos opinion. His whole rejection letter is bull.... I kid you not.
Why would we ever try to fake a marriage, especially this kind of marriage when he could've just stay in Canada as a worker for as long as he wanted.

 

[carolbb23]

I swear those are the reasons. I couldn't believe them either.
I'm way beyond heart broken.
I didn't sleep for three days.
Completely falling apart.
I've been crying for two days, and I didn't even cry when my dad died. And now that I know that he might not be coming back at all for a long time, it's killing me. He loves his work, and this is the last year he can do it, afterwards he has has offers as a coach. If he doesn't come back it will kill him, it will kill me.
I don't know.
For now I'm just really broken.
One of these days I will get back up on my feet and we will fight this together, if that means be flamboyant

I am sorry lena I am tearing up too you have to fight for your man my dear, he wants you to be strong and get an excellent lawyer it's you and your man vs cic you need faith

 

[lena2010]

Thank guys.
I appreciate it.
Anyways, he applied for trv with his work permit, record of employment etc.
Tell me he has some chance of getting it.

 

[OhCanada77]

Ah man, i'm so sorry. What a one sided and stereotypical reason for rejection. We don't take many pictures either. The odd selfie but only maybe 5 over a 7 year relationship.
You say your family accept the relationship. Letters from them stating you're committed to each other etc... can help and be used as proof of a genuine relationship, i'm just thinking in terms of appeal.

You have all my sympathy, everyone is very quick to say to me "You should just move out there" but they don't realise what it takes. Money, visas, money etc.. all get in the way

 

[Pitt1234]

Unfortunately, the chances of him getting a TRV for tourism purposes are very low. The problem with TRV is that we have to justify that we have more ties back home and intend to visit temporarily. In your case, your husband (by default) has more ties to Canada than his own country and (since he applied for a PR) has immigration intent. TRV allows dual intent, but still, it will be really hard for him to demonstrate that he will necessarily return back to his home country after a visit. Also, the PR rejection reason is bad for his TRV application.

One thing that I found confusing was the status of his work permit? Is it still valid? If yes, why did he have to leave Canada? TRV is only for the entry but he is perfectly fine to stay with a valid work permit. I think, it may be easier to get a TRV if he already has a work permit and the reason for visit is work (and not tourism).

Also, if I were you I would do a parallel ExpressEntry application, if possible (and let the spousal PR appeals process/re-application etc go in parallel). I personally know people who have got a PR within 5 months on an express entry application this year. The score requirement actually fell around 430+ recently. A job offer would actually move his score much higher. Why not try that? As long as he was not charged with misrepresentation for spousal sponsorship, express entry may be much much faster (but do confirm that because misrepresentation can bar him from 2-5 years from all visas). Of course, that's more pain and more money down the drain, but there is no relationship proof etc required for that, if that's coming in your way. I say that because you mentioned he already worked for 4 years in Canada.

Thank guys.
I appreciate it.
Anyways, he applied for trv with his work permit, record of employment etc.
Tell me he has some chance of getting it.

 

[Jeffuk88]

Unfortunately, the chances of him getting a TRV for tourism purposes are very low. The problem with TRV is that we have to justify that we have more ties back home and intend to visit temporarily. In your case, your husband (by default) has more ties to Canada than his own country and (since he applied for a PR) has immigration intent. TRV allows dual intent, but still, it will be really hard for him to demonstrate that he will necessarily return back to his home country after a visit. Also, the PR rejection reason is bad for his TRV application.

One thing that I found confusing was the status of his work permit? Is it still valid? If yes, why did he have to leave Canada? TRV is only for the entry but he is perfectly fine to stay with a valid work permit. I think, it may be easier to get a TRV if he already has a work permit and the reason for visit is work (and not tourism).

Also, if I were you I would do a parallel ExpressEntry application, if possible (and let the spousal PR appeals process/re-application etc go in parallel). I personally know people who have got a PR within 5 months on an express entry application this year. The score requirement actually fell around 430+ recently. A job offer would actually move his score much higher. Why not try that? As long as he was not charged with misrepresentation for spousal sponsorship, express entry may be much much faster (but do confirm that because misrepresentation can bar him from 2-5 years from all visas). Of course, that's more pain and more money down the drain, but there is no relationship proof etc required for that, if that's coming in your way. I say that because you mentioned he already worked for 4 years in Canada.

I believe he had to go to Vienna for an interview if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Pitt1234]

That truly sucks. But I guess, a valid work permit and a job in Canada may be somewhat helpful. I hope some angel star smiles on him and he gets a visitors visa for his work permit. My friend was allowed entry to Canada at Buffalo border with just a work permit (and no visa) by a nice border agent.

I believe he had to go to Vienna for an interview if I'm not mistaken.

 

[lena2010]

You guys are so awsome.
I will write more later but for now I have to say that there was no misrepresentation.
He just didn't believe I was gay.
Is it ok if I paste parts of our rejection mail here?

 

[sylvain1]

You guys are so awsome.
I will write more later but for now I have to say that there was no misrepresentation.
He just didn't believe I was gay.
Is it ok if I paste parts of our rejection mail here?

First, I add my voice to say that I'm sorry by what is happening to you. That story frustrates me a lot and I hope you will be able to find a way to solve it as soon as possible.
Then yes, you can copy/paste your rejection letter here but remove any personal information.

Have you tried contacting your MP? I know he/she will not be able to change CIC decision, but he might guide you on what is the best way for you to get him back. Short story here, my wife's sister wanted to come to Canada back in 2015 to attend our wedding. Her visitor visa was refused. We came to our MP and he took care of us. He told us the reasons for the refusal, told us what to change and told us to reapply as soon as possible. With minor changes to the application, she got a multi-entry visa valid for the duration of her passport. I'm not saying your MP will magically solve everything, but he/she might be of great help to bring him back, at least on a temporary status and might guide you on how to address CIC's concerns.

Best of luck with this process!

 

[lena2010]

Again, many of the photos include other persons and represent group events. While most of
the photos demonstrate a certain friendship between you and the sponsor, there are very few
photographs demonstrating a clear intimacy between the two of you. Given the fact that you and your
sponsor resided together since September 2013 and have indicated that you have been romantically
involved since December 2013, this does not represent the level of photographic evidence one could
expect from a genuine relationship.

I'm not really sure what kind of photos demonstrate clear intimacy? We just do not take many photos as it is, let alone photos that show clear intimacy. Did he mean kissing, licking, ducking on each others ears? I really don't know.

Finally, I found that you contradicted yourself on a few occasion when I questioned you about Toronto’s
vibrant gay community. First, you indicated that you did go to gay bars in Toronto, albeit rarely. But
when I questioned about the name of a single gay bar in Toronto, you finally admitted that you didn’t go
at all. Then, I asked you if you were aware of what happens in the gay community of Toronto. You first
stated to be a little bit aware through your sponsor, but when I asked you when the next Gay Pride
Parade would be, you didn’t know. You could not remember when the Gay Pride parades takes place in
Toronto every year and limited your answer to “at some point during the summer”. While I find
perfectly reasonable that members of this community may not participated in such events or prefer to
keep to themselves, your general lack of knowledge about Toronto’s gay community and the Gay Pride
Parade, whose reputation far exceeds the gay community, and your contradictions on these topics does
not satisfy me that you have answered truthfully all questions at your interview.

We do not go to gay bars, period. We are not members of the gay community. We keep to ourselves. We have few close friends who we hang out with and that's it. It's not like we are completely out and open about our sexual orientation. We don't care about any of that. It was hard enough admiting it to ourselves let alone the whole freaking world. We don't want to be members of any vibrant community. Our home, which is freaking torn apart because of this VO is vibrant enough.

You do not
remember precisely when your sponsor came out about his sexual orientation to this ex-common-law
partner or his children. You do not know precisely when he discovered himself to be attracted to male
individuals. One could reasonably expect a couple in a genuine relationship to be able to share more
intimate and relevant personal details that go beyond simple cohabitation and include their past. One
can also expect that the act of coming out so late in your life would have been an important event in
your sponsor’s life that would have been worth remembering and talking between the two of you.

Wtf. I do not even know when did I precisely discovered. What is that even supposed to mean. I never told my husband 'oh well honey, I remember vividly when I was 13 years okd

 

[lena2010]

I don't know precisely, so how should he know. I never came out to my ex partner. She just figured it out. She kinda always knew. And the kids, well the kids also know, but we do not really talk about it nor they want to be a part of it. In time, it will be easier for them to accept. I'm not gonna push it. Asking for precise dates is crazy.

So there you go.
Isn't this just crazy.