Rejected Due to Sending Updated Job Letter After Applying

[Mel P]

Did you mention the same employment dates on both the new and old IMM0008 forms?

The initial letter was dated
Mar 1,2010 to present
but the header says Jan.16.2012

The reason it says "Present" is because I had the letter drafted on Jan.2012 while I was still with the company. When I left in May 2012 I didnt get a new one drafted up because Mar.2010 - Jan. 2012 is more than 1 year full time experience and I thought it would be fine.

The new job letter above job duties says
Mar.1.2010 to May. 2012

but the header of the letter says Mar.1.2013 because that was when it was written.

The IMM form has the same dates however
Mar.2010 - May-2012

 

[Andy2109]

Mel P,

Sorry to say this but when it comes to duties and responsibilities, the decision by VO always has an upper hand. You did a mistake in not providing a detailed employment letter in the first go. It is the strongest weapon with them to nail your application down. Your case will not hold its ground and you will not be able to argue on the consistency of your job duties and responsibilities based on the letters your submitted.
Try your luck with an appeal my friend. But strongly suggest, get ready with a new package.

 

[jes_ON]

The "updates" that CIC wants are changes to contact information and/or family status. It is not an "update" to change your NOC code. You can certainly try to correct errors, but this one was, unfortunately, a big error.

I agree with SenoritaBella, your application was refused because your experience was evaluated as unskilled. You initially applied with an unskilled NOC (the letter itself was not the big problem), and the VO cannot ignore your initial submission. Then your second letter looks so much like the NOC duties (not 100% word for word, but close), that it suffers from credibility.

Even if you had originally applied with NOC 1241, this is one of those "problem" NOCs where the duties overlap with unskilled NOCs, and several have had their applications refused.

I would love to encourage you to reapply, but unfortunately, I think there is a high probability of being refused again. So it may benefit you to speak to an immigration lawyer.

 

[Mel P]

The "updates" that CIC wants are changes to contact information and/or family status. It is not an "update" to change your NOC code. You can certainly try to correct errors, but this one was, unfortunately, a big error.

I agree with SenoritaBella, your application was refused because your experience was evaluated as unskilled. You initially applied with an unskilled NOC (the letter itself was not the big problem), and the VO cannot ignore your initial submission. Then your second letter looks so much like the NOC duties (not 100% word for word, but close), that it suffers from credibility.

Even if you had originally applied with NOC 1241, this is one of those "problem" NOCs where the duties overlap with unskilled NOCs, and several have had their applications refused.

I would love to encourage you to reapply, but unfortunately, I think there is a high probability of being refused again. So it may benefit you to speak to an immigration lawyer.

Fair enough, thanks for your response. Guess i am just screwed lol

 

[jes_ON]

Fair enough, thanks for your response. Guess i am just screwed lol

Not saying that!!! Just that in your case, it would help to have professional representation ~

 

[preet0988]

Hi there, My case rejection is similar, what are you going to do now?
Is there any way we can reach them to update them with current application or do we have to apply again?

 

[Mel P]

Hi there, My case rejection is similar, what are you going to do now?
Is there any way we can reach them to update them with current application or do we have to apply again?

I sent them a detailed email and fax and I got a response this morning but it was a copy and paste reply.

This refers to your e-mails dated April 20, 2013, regarding the above captioned.

"Your application for permanent residence in Canada in the Canadian Experience Class was considered on its substantive merits but was refused. You were provided with the decision containing the reasons for refusal of this application in our message thereby fully concluding this application.

Should you have different or additional information, you may wish to submit a new application. You should understand, however, that a new application would require submission of new processing fees and that any such application would be assessed according to the criteria in effect at that time. As a result, no assurance of success can be offered."

I am still going to push the issue because i feel they arent truly looking into the case but rather shrugging it off. I am also asking for a very clear reason for the rejection so as to help me reapply.

Was it the 2 NOC Codes?
Was it the 2 letters?
Did they feel my duties didnt match?
Was their an error on the application?

If i dont get a clear answer how can I know for sure I wont make the mistake again? So I am going to follow up every week.

I am not going to bother with a lawyer unless i get rejected again. I heard the cost is in the 1000's and I rather save that as a last last resort.
-------

I also when going through my old app again I realized i made 2 additional mistakes. I accidently IMM008 set my work length to mar 2009 instead of 2010.

the next mistake was that Schedule 8 economic class, for job duties because there are only 3 boxes i only put 3 duties. This time I attached a sheet and have all of my duties.

I am also going to reapply using the new job letter and correct NOC from the beginning. I am combing through my applications and have been through it no less than 50 times today alone and wont stop till everything is perfect.

In regards to my job letter, I feel my job duties are closely matched to 1241

Job Title: Training Agent/Marketing Assistant
-Respond to telephone and email inquiries from client and business partners
-Help Process client registrations and payments
-Preparation, proofreading and delivery of quotes to clients
-Keep records of customer interactions and transactions through CRM system
-Help maintain vendor course listings with up to date and accurate information
-Inform staff of any important changes and updates by vendors
-Forwards telephone calls and emails to individuals or department
-Receive and greet visitors and direct to appropriate person
-Train new employees in regards to office procedure and website functions
-Notify staff of appointments and meetings
-Performing other tasks to support management when needed

There are only 2 or 3 duties that arent directly close matches which I underlined, all the rest match and I bolded the ones that are exclusively 1241. So in my mind my duties are a 9/11 match.

I understand this is one of those problem nocs and There is nothing I can do about that, I can only cross my fingers and make sure I do everything perfectly from the beginning
----


Honestly my biggest fear in regards to reapplying is that my prior rejection will be a black mark on all my future CEC applications, that because the prior officer rejected due to unskilled that the second officer will too.

 

[Mel P]

This was such a huge mistake a immi consultant turned me dow
n

Based on the information you have provided to us, we will not be able to take on your case. Your refusal letter states that your work duties do not correspond with NOC 1241. Your employer will not be able to re-write the letter for you as the government does not believe you work as NOC 1241.

We wish you the best of luck

 

[SenoritaBella]

Sorry to hear that. The good thing is they were honest with you about their ability to take on your case. I think the biggest challenge for you is that there is a huge difference between the two NOC codes; one is unskilled, the other skilled. It would be different if both codes were skilled. I also wonder if a visa officer will find your employment letter to be credible even if you re-apply? This would be a good time to order your GCMS notes(the physical file might be better, as I hear it actually has the officer's hand written notes) and it may take some time to receive.

This may be difficult for you but you should consider finding a new job that is skilled and then re-apply after working for 1 year. This time even if you don't want to spend a lot on lawyer fees, at least pay for one to go over your application with you and ensure it is properly done.

This was such a huge mistake a immi consultant turned me dow
n

Based on the information you have provided to us, we will not be able to take on your case. Your refusal letter states that your work duties do not correspond with NOC 1241. Your employer will not be able to re-write the letter for you as the government does not believe you work as NOC 1241.

We wish you the best of luck

 

[Mel P]

Sorry to hear that. The good thing is they were honest with you about their ability to take on your case. I think the biggest challenge for you is that there is a huge difference between the two NOC codes; one is unskilled, the other skilled. It would be different if both codes were skilled. I also wonder if a visa officer will find your employment letter to be credible even if you re-apply? This would be a good time to order your GCMS notes(the physical file might be better, as I hear it actually has the officer's hand written notes) and it may take some time to receive.

This may be difficult for you but you should consider finding a new job that is skilled and then re-apply after working for 1 year. This time even if you don't want to spend a lot on lawyer fees, at least pay for one to go over your application with you and ensure it is properly done.

Yea i definitely appreciate their honesty. I continued the conversation with the consultant and he essentially said i can no longer apply under 1241. I am looking for another NOC code that is similiar but no luck.

WHat is a GCMS? never heard of it. I would love more clarification on this rejection because the letter is slightly ambiguous.

I am no longer on my post grad work permit and the only way for me to get a work permit is via the PNP program or to return to school then do post grad work permit again.

I am looking for options but I am really having trouble coming up with any. I wish i could go back in time and never send in that letter.

 

[davidlee85]

They are the same job. I only worked at one company and it was 2 years. My work permit was from March. 2009 - 2012 I think I have to check and I worked at the company from March 2010 to May 2012 (between March and May of 2012 I was under implied status.) So I have more than enough job experience. I worked 40 Hours.

I did a 3 year program and only need 1 year experience. I am well over the mark.

After further combing his email. I believe the mistake is this.

With the new job letter, he thinks I change positions in the company, from a unskilled NOC to a skilled noc. Which is why he says "NOC 6552 & NOC 1241"

I put 6552 in my initial application but when I sent in a new job letter. I sent a updated application changing my NOC to 1241 because I realized that with my full duties and after speaking with HRSDC that most closely represents my NOC.

The officer then now thinks since I am newly positioned in 1241, I do not have enough experience but really I was in the NOC 1241 from the very beginning I just filled the application wrong. Initially hence the confusion.

So when I sent in the updated forms instead of using them as the REPLACEMENTS they consider them to be ADDITIONS to my application.


That's how I interpret it anyway. I emailed them back clarifying in hopes of a reconsideration and I also have a meeting with a lawyer about making a formal appeal on Monday.


Thank you for pointing that out Koz. I believe the rejection is due to that misunderstanding.

Come on this is NOT a misunderstanding. You should know your NOC from the very beginning. Changing your NOC from 6552 to 1241 certainly makes ur VO doubt about your work experience.

 

[davidlee85]

I sent a letter of explanation along with the forms and job letter. To be rejected based on a updated forms, would imply that you are unable to send a correct job letter and NOC form then. If that is the case it shouldnt be stated that you can send update forms after applying.

I agree I made a mistake initially I am human but I sent corrected forms that were added to my file long before the decision was made. I sent my duties to HRSDC which is why initially prompted me to change my noc and send the forms. I still have the email reply form them stating I am more closely related to 1241.

You can update any forms you want but you SHOULD NOT update your job duties.

 

[Mel P]

Come on this is NOT a misunderstanding. You should know your NOC from the very beginning. Changing your NOC from 6552 to 1241 certainly makes ur VO doubt about your work experience.

hindsight being 20/20 i can understand the case officers view point, his doubt. But it was genuinely a mistake. I was not trying to fool him and at any point he could call my employers and they would confirm those duties.

So yes i accept the mistake on my part and i am not blaming him. I am just trying to figure out how to resolve it or accept that i will not be able to migrate to Canada under these circumstances.

 

[SenoritaBella]

GCMS notes(Global Case Management S... forget what the 'S' stands for) contains the visa officer's detailed notes and would shed more light on what the issue is. As you are in Canada, you can get yours free under the Privacy Act.

Unfortunately, the post-graduation work permit is a one time deal. If your employer applies for and receives a positive a LMO(labor market opinion), it will enable you apply for a work permit tied to this employer. As you were originally hired on a post-graduation work permit, find out whether the employer needs to show that they tried to get Canadians/PRs for the job.

If you don't mind, perhaps consider sharing the province you live in to elicit more suggestions. Some nominee programs have streams for lower skilled jobs. May be you could see if your province has such a stream and if you can apply using NOC 6552(original application)?

I strongly encourage you to seek legal representation(experienced lawyer) for your subsequent application. It's costly but you can save some money by filling out all the forms yourself then have the lawyer go over it thoroughly and help you write any explanations needed as well as represent you till end of processing. If you go for this option, limit correspondence with the lawyer to very important matters because they charge each time they read/answer your emails or take your calls. LOL

If you have a partner who is Canadian/PR, they could sponsor you.

Yea i definitely appreciate their honesty. I continued the conversation with the consultant and he essentially said i can no longer apply under 1241. I am looking for another NOC code that is similiar but no luck.

WHat is a GCMS? never heard of it. I would love more clarification on this rejection because the letter is slightly ambiguous.

I am no longer on my post grad work permit and the only way for me to get a work permit is via the PNP program or to return to school then do post grad work permit again.

I am looking for options but I am really having trouble coming up with any. I wish i could go back in time and never send in that letter.

 

[Mel P]

GCMS notes(Global Case Management S... forget what the 'S' stands for) contains the visa officer's detailed notes and would shed more light on what the issue is. As you are in Canada, you can get yours free under the Privacy Act.

Unfortunately, the post-graduation work permit is a one time deal. If your employer applies for and receives a positive a LMO(labor market opinion), it will enable you apply for a work permit tied to this employer. As you were originally hired on a post-graduation work permit, find out whether the employer needs to show that they tried to get Canadians/PRs for the job.

If you don't mind, perhaps consider sharing the province you live in to elicit more suggestions. Some nominee programs have streams for lower skilled jobs. May be you could see if your province has such a stream and if you can apply using NOC 6552(original application)?

I strongly encourage you to seek legal representation(experienced lawyer) for your subsequent application. It's costly but you can save some money by filling out all the forms yourself then have the lawyer go over it thoroughly and help you write any explanations needed as well as represent you till end of processing. If you go for this option, limit correspondence with the lawyer to very important matters because they charge each time they read/answer your emails or take your calls. LOL

If you have a partner who is Canadian/PR, they could sponsor you.

Thanks Senorita you have been very helpful and I appreciate that. I left my employer last year, when he applied for the LMO they said that the job wasn't skilled enough that a Canadian couldn't do it so we received a negative LMO.

Finding a job then asking them to go through the process of applying for a LMO is quite difficult ive been told. Most places will just go with another candidate.

After some consideration, this is what I am leaning towards

I am going to reapply under the 1241 NOC with the new job letter I received in March. It will probably get declined but there is no harm in trying right?

My 3 year canadian girlfriend and I are going to move in together during the process of the CEC. If the application get rejected again, I assume around the 8 month mark again, we will continue to live together until the 1 year mark and apply for common law sponsorship.