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REFUSED.....BY CANADA IMM.....IS THIS EVEN RIGHT??????

mrs B

Star Member
Dec 5, 2009
98
8
I hope some of you remember my posts.....I am sponsering my husband (married 6 years) have known each other since 1983.........AIP in Nov 2009....then they asked for my husband to get meds for his 21 and 19 year old whom live with the ex in the Netherlands, we have send them THREE letters explaining there has never been contact since they were 4 and 2 also no custody papers, just a verbal agreement that they would remain with the mother......
well today we received a letter


IT SAYS: you have not show evidence of any custody agreements nor any evidence of any contact information
Therefore your application for the spouse or common law partner in Canada class is Refused.

Then some standard stuff info , phone number ect.....

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????????????????????????
I have lived here for 26 years my husband has been here since 2006, are they throwing us out????????
 

mrs B

Star Member
Dec 5, 2009
98
8
mrs B said:
I hope some of you remember my posts.....I am sponsering my husband (married 6 years) have known each other since 1983.........AIP in Nov 2009....then they asked for my husband to get meds for his 21 and 19 year old whom live with the ex in the Netherlands, we have send them THREE letters explaining there has never been contact since they were 4 and 2 also no custody papers, just a verbal agreement that they would remain with the mother......
well today we received a letter


IT SAYS: you have not show evidence of any custody agreements nor any evidence of any contact information
Therefore your application for the spouse or common law partner in Canada class is Refused.

Then some standard stuff info , phone number ect.....

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????????????????????????
I have lived here for 26 years my husband has been here since 2006, are they throwing us out????????
Also why no advise from them????does anyone know what we do now??? the letter said nothing JUST A BIG REFUSED
 

eyeoftheocean

Hero Member
Sep 14, 2010
603
13
Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Jan 2009
AOR Received.
Jan 2009
File Transfer...
June 2009
Med's Done....
Dec 2008 2nd Meds done Jan 2011 Medical Results have been received March 11
Interview........
AIP interview Aug 09 Security interview May 2010
LANDED..........
29-11-2013
I don't know much on this subject, I can only try and comfort you with big hugs and maybe call a lawyer .
 

Baloo

VIP Member
Nov 30, 2009
4,879
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I will defer to others on this, as my knowledge is limited.

This refusal document, is there any note or other document that states your husband has to leave yet?

I have lived here for 26 years my husband has been here since 2006, are they throwing us out????????
As a citizen, you would not be asked to leave.


Although no appeals are allowed on inland applications, it may be possible to ask for "leave to appeal" on a refused inland application.
I have heard of this being used, but I have no direct evidence it would be successful.

Details in here - look for "right to seek judicial review" in section 5.2
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf09-eng.pdf

Of course this is likely to be a long and expensive process.


Another option is, to re-apply outland, after arranging custody documents (countering the reason for refusal in this case).

You may want to contact the owners of this site, Campbell Cohen - their web page is at http://www.canadavisa.com/
 

annabruce

Hero Member
Jan 15, 2010
320
21
Ottawa
Category........
Visa Office......
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Received: 01-11-2010
File Transfer...
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Med's Done....
30-11-2011, x-ray delayed (pregnancy), redone on August 31, 2012
I suggest your husband get some kind of proof from the ex. I don't blame immigration one bit. No proof, no nothing, just a statement that he has had no contact since they were toddlers. He has made himself look like an irresponsible ass who has failed to make child support payments.

Get the proof, and submit it. I have heard of some people getting rejection letters who subsequently submitted new info and their application was then approved.
 

HoneyBird

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Jul 26, 2010
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annabruce said:
I suggest your husband get some kind of proof from the ex. I don't blame immigration one bit. No proof, no nothing, just a statement that he has had no contact since they were toddlers. He has made himself look like an irresponsible ass who has failed to make child support payments.

Get the proof, and submit it. I have heard of some people getting rejection letters who subsequently submitted new info and their application was then approved.
I can't believe he has never had contact with his children after 4 and 2. Wow. How does someone do that?
 

Kaycee1

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Jan 17, 2011
398
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Edmonton, Alberta
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HoneyBird said:
I can't believe he has never had contact with his children after 4 and 2. Wow. How does someone do that?
I don't think anyone has a right to be judgmental without knowing the whole situation!! Obviously its unusual to not have contact with your children, but you don't know the whole story, maybe he wasn't able to for some reason.
 

annabruce

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Jan 15, 2010
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Kaycee1 said:
I don't think anyone has a right to be judgmental without knowing the whole situation!! Obviously its unusual to not have contact with your children, but you don't know the whole story, maybe he wasn't able to for some reason.

.... but Canada Immigration DOES have thee authority to judge!! Appearances are everything. How you present yourself is everything! No contact with your children for so many years is weird by any normal person's standards. He needs to provide a better explanation than a simple letter. They mentioned contact number; provide the name and last know address of the ex, phone number if it exists!!
 

Kaycee1

Hero Member
Jan 17, 2011
398
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Edmonton, Alberta
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-01-2011
Nomination.....
Sponsor Approved 24-02-2011
AOR Received.
02-03-2011
Med's Request
In process 20-05-2011
Med's Done....
26-04-2011
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
17-06-11
VISA ISSUED...
15-06-11
LANDED..........
14-08-11
Yes, CIC needs proof and I can understand that, but calling someone an irresponsible ass and saying "how could they do that" is not exactly fair when you don't know the whole story! I wasn't commenting on CIC's request, just people's responses here. And it may be impossible to find his children after all these years, does that make his relationship here any less valid??
 

annabruce

Hero Member
Jan 15, 2010
320
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Ottawa
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Received: 01-11-2010
File Transfer...
09-10-2012 (Ottawa)
Med's Done....
30-11-2011, x-ray delayed (pregnancy), redone on August 31, 2012
Kaycee1 said:
Yes, CIC needs proof and I can understand that, but calling someone an irresponsible ass and saying "how could they do that" is not exactly fair when you don't know the whole story! I wasn't commenting on CIC's request, just people's responses here. And it may be impossible to find his children after all these years, does that make his relationship here any less valid??
Kaycee1, if someone fails to provide evidence for something as strange as this, then yes, to any normal person, they would appear an irresponsible ass. The very act of assuming so loudly that immigration has made a mistake demonstrates this irresponsibility. They MUST explain themselves, and prove it!! This is very, very, very strange, and I don't blame immigration one bit!

I want to repeat that my original response was a comment about "appearances" - how this man appears. To immigration, he appears very irresponsible without better proof.
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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He should have taken it more seriously. Immigration asked him to get the children's medicals so he should at least have tried to look for the children and get their medicals. Maybe they also would have wanted to get PR and would have been happy to get the medicals, that is after the initial shock of hearing from their father again after so many years. Then again, maybe they would have told him to go suck on a lemon but if he'd had a witness to that, he could have honestly said that he tried, they refused and he can't make them because regardless of custody agreements, they are not minor children any more and you can not take them to the doctor if they don't want to go. It is the fact that he did not even try to find them that immigration doesn't like. They are still his children and should be given the right to get the medical to be sponsored now or later.

With an AIP, I suppose he had an open work permit. I assume that is now invalid as the application has been refused and he will need to get an LMO and apply for a regular work permit or get accepted to a college and get a study permit or change his status to visitor or go back to the Netherlands. If you want to apply for sponsorship again, inland or outland, he needs to find the children and get it verified that they either will or wont do the medicals or the alternative is to wait for 3 years until the younger child turns 22 because then they will not be dependant any more.
 

Kaycee1

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Jan 17, 2011
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My comment was in regards to the personal nature of comments being made here, not whether or not CIC was right in their decision. I agree that the proof should have been provided and stronger. But to say the things that have been said on this thread about this person I don't think are right - no one knows the whole situation but him.
 

HoneyBird

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Jul 26, 2010
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Dec 2010
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Jan 2011
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I am sorry but any normal person would ask the question.

This is also forum.
Its a discussion/advice..whether you like it or not.
And its freedom of speech.

I am merely stating what numerous people would have said in their heads. And maybe if she explains better, people here will be able to tell her what the issue is. And how to approach it. The question has to be asked and answered. Otherwise if she doesnt want to expose her business here, then go to a lawyer and pay the money to sort out the issues.

The only advice I can give him is to check social networks like Facebook. Maybe immigration did a search and found them.

BTW you are blowing this way out of context.
 

RobsLuv

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Jul 14, 2008
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annabruce said:
.... but Canada Immigration DOES have thee authority to judge!! Appearances are everything. How you present yourself is everything! No contact with your children for so many years is weird by any normal person's standards. He needs to provide a better explanation than a simple letter. They mentioned contact number; provide the name and last know address of the ex, phone number if it exists!!
CIC cannot refuse an application based on "appearances" . . . or because they believe someone is an "ass" for not having contact with his/her children. And it's ridiculous to suggest that CIC checked Facebook and found the children there! It's my understanding, from what the OP posted, that the children were included on the application but not examined because they have been living with their mother and he has not had contact with them since they were toddlers. Lots of people are vindictive and withhold the children in spite - so don't just go assuming this person is at fault for not seeing his kids. We are not here to JUDGE, we're here to provide information, and the info that's been given so far is nothing but opinion.

mrs B: As far as the refusal, CIC has to give a reason that is based on the IRPA and Regulations, and the specific paragraph of the IRPA has to be referenced in the refusal letter. Children who are defined as "dependents" by the IRPA Regulations MUST be included in the application - and they must be medically examined (and submit police clearances, too, if over the age of 18). CIC makes it very clear in the application instructions that they are not going to get involved in "custody disputes" - all custody issues must be sorted out before someone makes application to immigrate to Canada. Because your husband does not have any paperwork that proves he does not have custody of the children - and because he (apparently) did not get them examined - it caused a problem. I'm not certain that they really had the authority to just refuse the application for this reason - I don't know that there are really grounds for them to do that. Normally they will just keep delaying processing until the applicant complies - either by submitting a notarized letter of separation, or by having the children examined. But the fact is that trying to immigrate when someone has "dependent" children who are non-accompanying is VERY complicated - mostly because, apparently, the guidelines concerning how to deal with the myriad of "issues" that can come up are not terribly clear. Our application was refused also, based on a situation with my non-accompanying "dependent" and the refusal went against everything that was written in the manuals and the IRPA and Regs - yet they still refused and we had to go through the entire appeal process to get it sorted out. Unfortunately, you don't have that option, so my advice: make some real noise with your MP. S/he has contacts at the Minister's office and maybe they can get the file re-opened - especially if the officer who refused the application did not reference a particular paragraph of the IRPA as grounds for the refusal. It's not clear to me whether your husband just neglected to respond in any "official" capacity to requests to have the children examined - simply stating that he does not have contact with them is not really what CIC wants.

This needs to happen soon, though, because of the fact that there is no right of appeal with an inland application and that means that as soon as his temporary status expires, he has to leave Canada unless this thing gets resolved. The suggestion to apply again outland is definitely an option - but not one that allows him to stay in Canada with you. Whenever he applies to extend his temporary status, they're likely to refuse based on the refusal of the PR application. I would maybe even consult with a lawyer - but, really, your MP can do more for you . . . especially if CIC did not follow proper procedure in the refusal.
 

Kaycee1

Hero Member
Jan 17, 2011
398
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Edmonton, Alberta
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Med's Done....
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Interview........
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Passport Req..
17-06-11
VISA ISSUED...
15-06-11
LANDED..........
14-08-11
RobsLuv said:
CIC cannot refuse an application based on "appearances" . . . or because they believe someone is an "ass" for not having contact with his/her children. And it's ridiculous to suggest that CIC checked Facebook and found the children there! It's my understanding, from what the OP posted, that the children were included on the application but not examined because they have been living with their mother and he has not had contact with them since they were toddlers. Lots of people are vindictive and withhold the children in spite - so don't just go assuming this person is at fault for not seeing his kids. We are not here to JUDGE, we're here to provide information, and the info that's been given so far is nothing but opinion.
EXACTLY!