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Refugees Applying For Citizenship; Issues & Concerns (other than cessation)

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
In Form, the Citizenship Process Same For Refugees As All Others:

The eligibility requirements, the application forms and checklist, and the procedures for obtaining naturalized citizenship, apply the SAME for PRs with protected person or refugee status as they do for those who obtained PR in any other class, be that skilled workers or family class sponsored PRs, provincially sponsored, or even those who became a PR as a member of a discontinued class. Same qualifications apply, including physical presence requirement, language and knowledge of Canada requirements, and prohibitions.

But the factual background and other personal elements can often be very different for refugees and protected persons, and sometimes these differences can have a big influence on how things go for the refugee applying for citizenship.

Cessation of protected person status, which is unique to refugees and protected persons (does not apply to other PRs), for example, is totally separate from qualifying for and being granted citizenship, but for refugees and protected persons who have done things like obtain or use a home country passport, or who have traveled to their home country, an application for citizenship may crash if CBSA prosecutes cessation of their status based on reavailment. This is specifically covered in another thread here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/ Note that the consequences of "reavailment" and cessation are severe. That is a subject very much suitable for its own topic.

Occasionally other more or less refugee-oriented issues have come up in the Cessation thread. I have started this thread to have a more specific place, in the forum, to address such matters, the particular issues and concerns (other than cessation) that refugees and protected persons might encounter that other PRs don't or at least not ordinarily, or not so much.

Here is a recent example from the cessation topic:

Hello all,
I’ve noticed that applicants should copy all home country passport and refugee travel document papers as well.
My friend got back his home country passport last year,coz he didn’t need it and was expired,he tore it up.
So what should he do for the citizenship application?the only RTD is acceptable?
Unlike other PRs, most (not necessarily all) PRs in the Protected Person class surrender their passports and do not get them returned (they can . . . for discussions about asylum class claimants and PRs and getting their passport returned see https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/get-passport-back.720701/ in the Refugees and Asylum part of the forum . . . CAUTION: even if the passport is still valid, most in this class should NOT use their home country passport, not for any travel to anywhere, AND for sure NOT get it renewed, which again is about reavailment and cessation).

So first, @NaAzaAn is spot on about making and keeping complete copies of things like passports. Good idea. Very good idea. Of course this applies to all PRs not just refugees.

But generally refugees are far more likely to NOT have a passport to submit with the citizenship application. Which is the situation underlying the query posed by @NaAzaAn.

Question 14 in the Citizenship application (current CIT 0002 version, from 10-2020) requires the applicant to declare travel documents and passports, and list them.

There is a box for explaining the absence of a passport, travel document, or a gap in time for which the applicant did not have a travel document or passport.

And that's what the refugee applicant without a passport does: list any passport the refugee had that could have been used in the five year eligibility period, and explain why they do not have it now, and explain why they do not have another . . . basically because they are refugees (that might be too brief an explanation but it really does not need to be much more than that).

So yes, the RTD will suffice if that is what the refugee-citizenship-applicant has. Many refugees will not have even this. Again, they just explain in the box for Question 14 in the application.

The checklist item is a little trickier, but my sense is it is OK to check that item, maybe circle the text where it says "an explanation in question 14 of the application form"

If the applicant has a passport but no longer has it, and does not have a copy, list as much information about it as the applicant can remember and in the explanation acknowledge the information about the passport is limited to memory, as part of the explanation about why the applicant does not have it (lots of possible explanations: surrendered to authorities and it was not returned; it was destroyed; it was lost or stolen (give some details, including police report information if applicable, along with the explanation about being a refugee as the reason for not currently having a passport).

By the way: how the absence of a passport might affect the process can vary widely. And largely depend on the nature, frequency, and duration of international travel by the refugee.


In Any Event . . . the object of this thread is to provide space for questions asylum class citizenship applicants have that might be particular to asylum class applicants.

There is another post from the Cessation thread I will quote and address here. It is not clear what issues, IF ANY, that applicant has, so it is not clear that the timeline for their application has been affected by their protected person status. But obviously there is no cessation investigation stalling it. Does not appear to involve a security related concern, but it is worth mentioning that asylum class citizenship applicants might be at higher risk, generally, for complicated security background checks. This would be about the individual refugee's background. As I previously noted, differences in background and history, recognizing that many refugees come from complicated if not chaotic circumstances, and that can invite some non-routine unraveling when going through the citizenship application process.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
This is another post taken from the Cessation thread. Obviously cessation is not an issue.

I also doubt this is about the individual's protected person status, but since @rousseau obtained status in Canada as a protected person, and is posed this in the Cessation thread, I will address it further here.

I want to share my story about citizenship application delays, to get advice and to help another applicant. I applied in June 2019 from Montreal and I've not been invited for a citizenship test as of August 12, 2021. I contacted IRCC several times through the web form, and order numerous GCMS notes.

I obtained my PR status through the Protected Person Program.
I never travelled outside Canada. I never renew my expired passport. I never did anything that could have been perceived as REVAILMENT.
The last time I visited my home country was 3 years before I came to Canada. I've been in Canada since 2014. I'm married to a Canadian citizen and have 2 kids who are Canadian citizens.

Ultimately I contacted my MP and here is the response she got from IRCC :

  • The application (XXXX) was received at the Case Processing Centre in Sydney (CPC-S), Nova Scotia, on July X, 2019.
  • The application was considered complete and an acknowledgement letter was sent to the applicant on September 6, 2019.
    • If he has not received this letter and is between the ages of 18 to 54, he can find the guide here.
  • The application is considered non-routine due to the following reason:
    • The file is under review because it requires further verifications; rest assured that the responsible office will inform the applicant if he has to provide further details.
  • We recommend that the applicant verifies the e-Client Application Status (e-CAS) online tool regularly to check the status of his application.
  • The criminality verifications are currently valid.
  • The security verifications are currently valid.
  • The immigration verifications have not been initiated.
  • Due to COVID-19, IRCC is experiencing processing delays and we can’t provide you with accurate processing times for this application. Rest assured that we understand how important this process is for the applicant and are making all the necessary efforts to finalize the application as soon as possible.
    • Should the applicant need to travel using a commercial carrier during this time, he should ensure he holds a valid permanent resident card
I was fed up due to the exaggerated processing time so I decided to bring it to court. I applied for leave.

The lawyer from Justice Canada has decided not to submit any arguments in response to mine at this point in time. Can I hope to win the leave application?
I just want to clarify that it is the IRCC lawyer that did not provide an argument to defend themself at the court! So what does this really means? Will I get my application for leave granted since the IRCC lawyer did not defend IRCC?
I partially responded last week. As noted then, and still important: . . . if you have a lawyer representing you, your lawyer is a far, far better source of information than I am.

If you do not have a lawyer representing you and you made the application for leave to obtain judicial review yourself, sorry, the odds of that succeeding are NOT good.

If the merits are strong and you properly made the case, there is of course a real chance it will succeed. As I noted previously, last week, what will happen does not depend on statistical probabilities. It is no game of chance, not a lottery, not a roll of dice. What will happen will primarily depend on two things:
(1) the merits, that is the factual and legal merits of your case, and​
(2) your application meeting the procedural requirements and properly presenting the substantive case, including presentation of the factual and legal merits​

That is, if there is a strong case on the merits, AND the applicant properly makes the case, the odds of a successful application to the Federal Court are good, very good, no matter how few such applications succeed. Even if you proceeded pro se.

However, if you proceeded pro se the odds you made a good case are not good, and in particular if the primary basis for your claim was about how long your application has been in process, it is not surprising that the IRCC did you a favour and not rack up fees putting together a submission to the FC, since the better outcome is application denied without you being ordered to pay IRCC's costs and fees.

Moreover, you do not mention the demand made to IRCC which would have been necessary before you had a case to make to the FC. If you did not make a proper demand, that alone will close the door on your case before the FC.

Beyond that, on its face the state of your case does not appear to be related much to your protected person status. There appear to be scores of summer 2019 applications still pending. Many others likewise frustrated with the timeline have been banging on the bars and singing bring Mandamus refrains, but so far we have seen no more than an isolated few so much as claiming they were going to do this let alone proceed with filing an action. And again, if the primary basis for going to court is about how long your application has been in process, that's not a good case, not even close.

This is mostly about the availability of mandamus relief. I have addressed this subject in-depth multiple times. Here are a couple:

Most recently, about a month ago, in a September 22 post here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/applicants-waiting-for-more-than-2-years-interested-in-mandamus-with-a-firm-as-a-group-meet-here.743417/page-8

And a more in-depth, BEFORE Covid-related delays, a December 12, 2019 post here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/mandamus-i’m-a-june-2018-applicant-waiting-for-the-test.668764/

If you were hoping that the IRCC lawyer declining to make submissions equaled conceding . . . it could but unless you made a particularly compelling case, that seems quite unlikely. THAT SAID . . . in other topics some forum participants have reported that this or that lawyer has claimed initiating the process will often trigger IRCC to proceed to take action on the file. So, even if the FC court simply rejects the application, there is a fair possibility it has triggered IRCC to move up its next step.

Please keep the forum posted about how this goes!
 

NaAzaAn

Hero Member
May 26, 2021
300
72
In Form, the Citizenship Process Same For Refugees As All Others:

The eligibility requirements, the application forms and checklist, and the procedures for obtaining naturalized citizenship, apply the SAME for PRs with protected person or refugee status as they do for those who obtained PR in any other class, be that skilled workers or family class sponsored PRs, provincially sponsored, or even those who became a PR as a member of a discontinued class. Same qualifications apply, including physical presence requirement, language and knowledge of Canada requirements, and prohibitions.

But the factual background and other personal elements can often be very different for refugees and protected persons, and sometimes these differences can have a big influence on how things go for the refugee applying for citizenship.

Cessation of protected person status, which is unique to refugees and protected persons (does not apply to other PRs), for example, is totally separate from qualifying for and being granted citizenship, but for refugees and protected persons who have done things like obtain or use a home country passport, or who have traveled to their home country, an application for citizenship may crash if CBSA prosecutes cessation of their status based on reavailment. This is specifically covered in another thread here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/ Note that the consequences of "reavailment" and cessation are severe. That is a subject very much suitable for its own topic.

Occasionally other more or less refugee-oriented issues have come up in the Cessation thread. I have started this thread to have a more specific place, in the forum, to address such matters, the particular issues and concerns (other than cessation) that refugees and protected persons might encounter that other PRs don't or at least not ordinarily, or not so much.

Here is a recent example from the cessation topic:



Unlike other PRs, most (not necessarily all) PRs in the Protected Person class surrender their passports and do not get them returned (they can . . . for discussions about asylum class claimants and PRs and getting their passport returned see https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/get-passport-back.720701/ in the Refugees and Asylum part of the forum . . . CAUTION: even if the passport is still valid, most in this class should NOT use their home country passport, not for any travel to anywhere, AND for sure NOT get it renewed, which again is about reavailment and cessation).

So first, @NaAzaAn is spot on about making and keeping complete copies of things like passports. Good idea. Very good idea. Of course this applies to all PRs not just refugees.

But generally refugees are far more likely to NOT have a passport to submit with the citizenship application. Which is the situation underlying the query posed by @NaAzaAn.

Question 14 in the Citizenship application (current CIT 0002 version, from 10-2020) requires the applicant to declare travel documents and passports, and list them.

There is a box for explaining the absence of a passport, travel document, or a gap in time for which the applicant did not have a travel document or passport.

And that's what the refugee applicant without a passport does: list any passport the refugee had that could have been used in the five year eligibility period, and explain why they do not have it now, and explain why they do not have another . . . basically because they are refugees (that might be too brief an explanation but it really does not need to be much more than that).

So yes, the RTD will suffice if that is what the refugee-citizenship-applicant has. Many refugees will not have even this. Again, they just explain in the box for Question 14 in the application.

The checklist item is a little trickier, but my sense is it is OK to check that item, maybe circle the text where it says "an explanation in question 14 of the application form"

If the applicant has a passport but no longer has it, and does not have a copy, list as much information about it as the applicant can remember and in the explanation acknowledge the information about the passport is limited to memory, as part of the explanation about why the applicant does not have it (lots of possible explanations: surrendered to authorities and it was not returned; it was destroyed; it was lost or stolen (give some details, including police report information if applicable, along with the explanation about being a refugee as the reason for not currently having a passport).

By the way: how the absence of a passport might affect the process can vary widely. And largely depend on the nature, frequency, and duration of international travel by the refugee.


In Any Event . . . the object of this thread is to provide space for questions asylum class citizenship applicants have that might be particular to asylum class applicants.

There is another post from the Cessation thread I will quote and address here. It is not clear what issues, IF ANY, that applicant has, so it is not clear that the timeline for their application has been affected by their protected person status. But obviously there is no cessation investigation stalling it. Does not appear to involve a security related concern, but it is worth mentioning that asylum class citizenship applicants might be at higher risk, generally, for complicated security background checks. This would be about the individual refugee's background. As I previously noted, differences in background and history, recognizing that many refugees come from complicated if not chaotic circumstances, and that can invite some non-routine unraveling when going through the citizenship application process.
Thank you for your reply.
Yes he has his RTD ,also he has copies of all pages of home country passport.
Is it good to add copy of hom county passport to the citizenship application?
And he only has 1.5 month trip during this years.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Thank you for your reply.
Yes he has his RTD ,also he has copies of all pages of home country passport.
Is it good to add copy of hom county passport to the citizenship application?
And he only has 1.5 month trip during this years.
Reminder: I am NO expert. I am NOT qualified to give personal advice. My observations are based on general information. Each individual needs to personally read and respond to questions in the application as best they can, honestly and completely according to their own best understanding of what is asked and what is the appropriate answer.

What documents, or copies of documents to include in the application are listed in the checklist and referenced in the guide. Follow the instructions.

What to include in regards to travel documents or passports is not affected by the applicant's international travel.

Copies, as described in the instructions (not every page of passports, for example, but those pages containing the information described in the checklist and instructions), of ANY and ALL travel documents that the applicant has and which could have been used during the previous FIVE YEARS (the eligibility period) need to be submitted. If the applicant has a home country passport, for example, yes that needs to be listed in Question 14 and a copy submitted.


If the applicant you are asking about has a copy of the passport but NOT the actual passport:

There are probably multiple ways to handle this that are OK. The application is not a test. There is not always one right way to answer a question. Again, applicants mostly need to do their best to read and follow the instructions, and to answer questions and provide documents according to their OWN best understanding . . . things said in a forum like this can help an individual figure things out, but each person still needs to follow the instructions as best they can.

So . . . if the applicant does not have the passport anymore, the applicant can refer to it in the explanation box, state that they no longer have that passport, and state why. OR the applicant could list it and submit the copy, but still be sure to state in the explanation box that they no longer have the actual passport, again also explaining why, and give the date the copy was made clearly indicating it is a copy from the past. OR . . . however they figure out and decide is the most appropriate way for them to respond.
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Is it a good sign I got the ONLINE TEST invite ? Case dated
Septembre 2019
PR refugee case
Any sign of progress is always a good sign. Especially for applicants currently suffering the bogged down, delayed processing times

The vast majority of qualified citizenship applicants, who truthfully and properly completed the forms and who have otherwise responded to IRCC requests, should have little or nothing to worry about. No need for a "good sign" since there is no reason to anticipate a bad sign.

That includes refugees and otherwise persons who obtained PR as a protected person. As I noted at the beginning of this thread, mostly the process is the same for refugees as it is for any other qualified applicants.

But of course if the applicant is aware there is a potential issue lurking in their particular case, whatever that is, getting to and through the test does not indicate whether that issue is still a potential problem.
 
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rousseau

Member
Jun 27, 2019
19
6
This is another post taken from the Cessation thread. Obviously cessation is not an issue.

I also doubt this is about the individual's protected person status, but since @rousseau obtained status in Canada as a protected person, and is posed this in the Cessation thread, I will address it further here.





I partially responded last week. As noted then, and still important: . . . if you have a lawyer representing you, your lawyer is a far, far better source of information than I am.

If you do not have a lawyer representing you and you made the application for leave to obtain judicial review yourself, sorry, the odds of that succeeding are NOT good.

If the merits are strong and you properly made the case, there is of course a real chance it will succeed. As I noted previously, last week, what will happen does not depend on statistical probabilities. It is no game of chance, not a lottery, not a roll of dice. What will happen will primarily depend on two things:
(1) the merits, that is the factual and legal merits of your case, and​
(2) your application meeting the procedural requirements and properly presenting the substantive case, including presentation of the factual and legal merits​

That is, if there is a strong case on the merits, AND the applicant properly makes the case, the odds of a successful application to the Federal Court are good, very good, no matter how few such applications succeed. Even if you proceeded pro se.

However, if you proceeded pro se the odds you made a good case are not good, and in particular if the primary basis for your claim was about how long your application has been in process, it is not surprising that the IRCC did you a favour and not rack up fees putting together a submission to the FC, since the better outcome is application denied without you being ordered to pay IRCC's costs and fees.

Moreover, you do not mention the demand made to IRCC which would have been necessary before you had a case to make to the FC. If you did not make a proper demand, that alone will close the door on your case before the FC.

Beyond that, on its face the state of your case does not appear to be related much to your protected person status. There appear to be scores of summer 2019 applications still pending. Many others likewise frustrated with the timeline have been banging on the bars and singing bring Mandamus refrains, but so far we have seen no more than an isolated few so much as claiming they were going to do this let alone proceed with filing an action. And again, if the primary basis for going to court is about how long your application has been in process, that's not a good case, not even close.

This is mostly about the availability of mandamus relief. I have addressed this subject in-depth multiple times. Here are a couple:

Most recently, about a month ago, in a September 22 post here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/applicants-waiting-for-more-than-2-years-interested-in-mandamus-with-a-firm-as-a-group-meet-here.743417/page-8

And a more in-depth, BEFORE Covid-related delays, a December 12, 2019 post here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/mandamus-i’m-a-june-2018-applicant-waiting-for-the-test.668764/

If you were hoping that the IRCC lawyer declining to make submissions equaled conceding . . . it could but unless you made a particularly compelling case, that seems quite unlikely. THAT SAID . . . in other topics some forum participants have reported that this or that lawyer has claimed initiating the process will often trigger IRCC to proceed to take action on the file. So, even if the FC court simply rejects the application, there is a fair possibility it has triggered IRCC to move up its next step.

Please keep the forum posted about how this goes!
Thanks @dpenabill for taking the time to respond to my question.

Yes, I have a lawyer and he said that since Justice Canda did not defend their client "IRCC", it is almost certain that leave will be granted since I have a strong case.

I also would like to mention that after I applied for Mandamus, I received an invite to write the citizenship test. I completed the citizenship and now waiting for the oath invite.

I am still waiting for leave to be granted. I have the feeling that IRCC will do something to make my Mandamus application moot. Because I have a strong case and I am asking for cost.

My lawyer did mention that my case is strong because I meet all the requirements and the IRCC did not provide any explanation. But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

Thanks again,
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Thanks @dpenabill for taking the time to respond to my question.

Yes, I have a lawyer and he said that since Justice Canda did not defend their client "IRCC", it is almost certain that leave will be granted since I have a strong case.

I also would like to mention that after I applied for Mandamus, I received an invite to write the citizenship test. I completed the citizenship and now waiting for the oath invite.

I am still waiting for leave to be granted. I have the feeling that IRCC will do something to make my Mandamus application moot. Because I have a strong case and I am asking for cost.

My lawyer did mention that my case is strong because I meet all the requirements and the IRCC did not provide any explanation. But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

Thanks again,
The update is appreciated, especially the added detail.

As previously noted, since you have a lawyer, the lawyer is a far better source of information about the merits of the case, including claims for additional recourse and costs. And this is particularly so since you have not shared details on that side of the equation.

I will note that ordinarily (apart from costs) the relief actually available, when there is an application for a Writ of Mandamus in regards to a grant citizenship application, is an order that the Minister proceed with processing the application. It is not uncommon for such applications to ask for more, such as requesting the court to order the Minister to actually grant citizenship. The latter is not a remedy the court can order (except in very narrow circumstances, not implicated here). So, the fact that IRCC proceeded to schedule and administer the knowledge of Canada test means the relief available has been, in effect, obtained.

That usually means the application itself is indeed moot (except for collateral matters, like costs). The available relief is in effect a done deal.

There are exceptions. Here too the exceptions are based on narrow circumstances, so narrow and so few it is impossible to generalize much about them. One case I have seen was clearly a particularly egregious example (happens; even the best bureaucracy is still a bureaucracy, and a bureaucracy is what bureaucracies do, and IRCC falls short of being any reasonable person's idea of the "best" bureaucracy). In that case the Federal Court retained jurisdiction and required IRCC (technically the Minister) to provide updates on further progress. Since you have not shared details regarding the merits (and I am not suggesting you do), it is difficult to guess whether your case is near that end of the spectrum; should be noted, nonetheless, that even among meritorious mandamus actions, recovery of costs is not the norm and even when costs are awarded they tend to be way less than the actual costs, and further relief beyond IRCC proceeding to actually process the application (which administering the test constitutes) would be highly unusual.

It warrants a note, again, that this does not appear to be related to the fact that your PR status was obtained in the protected person or refugee class. Unless you know of some association other than the fact that was how your PR status was obtained. Or unless other PRs in this class come forward and report similar delays affecting them disproportionately compared to applicants for citizenship who obtained their PR status in other classes.

My general impression, not worth a whole lot perhaps, is that IRCC tends to promptly proceed with such cases. So your journey may indeed soon arrive at taking the oath. Still, please, keep us updated.

But again the update is appreciated and it will be especially appreciated if you continue to update the forum with information about how this goes from here. Most of the information about Mandamus actions I rely on comes from what is reported in Federal Court decisions, so it is really helpful when we get reliable reports about actual cases that may not result in a published decision.
 

NaAzaAn

Hero Member
May 26, 2021
300
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Thanks @dpenabill for taking the time to respond to my question.

Yes, I have a lawyer and he said that since Justice Canda did not defend their client "IRCC", it is almost certain that leave will be granted since I have a strong case.

I also would like to mention that after I applied for Mandamus, I received an invite to write the citizenship test. I completed the citizenship and now waiting for the oath invite.

I am still waiting for leave to be granted. I have the feeling that IRCC will do something to make my Mandamus application moot. Because I have a strong case and I am asking for cost.

My lawyer did mention that my case is strong because I meet all the requirements and the IRCC did not provide any explanation. But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

Thanks again,
Hey bro.
Did IRCC ask you to send them original RTD and home country passport?or only copy of them?
 

Mus87

Star Member
Jun 25, 2019
79
25
Thanks @dpenabill for taking the time to respond to my question.

Yes, I have a lawyer and he said that since Justice Canda did not defend their client "IRCC", it is almost certain that leave will be granted since I have a strong case.

I also would like to mention that after I applied for Mandamus, I received an invite to write the citizenship test. I completed the citizenship and now waiting for the oath invite.

I am still waiting for leave to be granted. I have the feeling that IRCC will do something to make my Mandamus application moot. Because I have a strong case and I am asking for cost.

My lawyer did mention that my case is strong because I meet all the requirements and the IRCC did not provide any explanation. But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

Thanks again,
Please keep us updated as I’m thinking of taking my case to the court as well.
 

anton1990

Champion Member
Dec 22, 2015
1,752
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North Battleford
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Sydney, NS
NOC Code......
2171
Job Offer........
Yes
App. Filed.......
14-04-2016
Nomination.....
21-04-2016
AOR Received.
11-07-2016
Med's Request
02-05-2017
Med's Done....
09-05-2017
Passport Req..
08-12-2017
VISA ISSUED...
20-12-2017
LANDED..........
14-01-2018
Thanks @dpenabill for taking the time to respond to my question.

Yes, I have a lawyer and he said that since Justice Canda did not defend their client "IRCC", it is almost certain that leave will be granted since I have a strong case.

I also would like to mention that after I applied for Mandamus, I received an invite to write the citizenship test. I completed the citizenship and now waiting for the oath invite.

I am still waiting for leave to be granted. I have the feeling that IRCC will do something to make my Mandamus application moot. Because I have a strong case and I am asking for cost.

My lawyer did mention that my case is strong because I meet all the requirements and the IRCC did not provide any explanation. But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

Thanks again,
Good luck with that - But now, I don't want just citizenship, I want whoever messes up with my right to fair treatment to be punished or if there is a broken system to be flagged by the justice system.

You are forgetting about unions
 

116sg17

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2021
221
123
Just out of curiosity, I see a lot posts where people with Hungarian citizenship are able to get approved as protected person. Absolutely nothing against anyone but how is it possible considering that they are also citizens of the EU and can therefore live, work, move, setup a business anywhere in EU?
Also is there some sort of instability in the country that I don't know about?
Thanks
 

rousseau

Member
Jun 27, 2019
19
6
The update is appreciated, especially the added detail.

As previously noted, since you have a lawyer, the lawyer is a far better source of information about the merits of the case, including claims for additional recourse and costs. And this is particularly so since you have not shared details on that side of the equation.

I will note that ordinarily (apart from costs) the relief actually available, when there is an application for a Writ of Mandamus in regards to a grant citizenship application, is an order that the Minister proceed with processing the application. It is not uncommon for such applications to ask for more, such as requesting the court to order the Minister to actually grant citizenship. The latter is not a remedy the court can order (except in very narrow circumstances, not implicated here). So, the fact that IRCC proceeded to schedule and administer the knowledge of Canada test means the relief available has been, in effect, obtained.

That usually means the application itself is indeed moot (except for collateral matters, like costs). The available relief is in effect a done deal.

There are exceptions. Here too the exceptions are based on narrow circumstances, so narrow and so few it is impossible to generalize much about them. One case I have seen was clearly a particularly egregious example (happens; even the best bureaucracy is still a bureaucracy, and a bureaucracy is what bureaucracies do, and IRCC falls short of being any reasonable person's idea of the "best" bureaucracy). In that case the Federal Court retained jurisdiction and required IRCC (technically the Minister) to provide updates on further progress. Since you have not shared details regarding the merits (and I am not suggesting you do), it is difficult to guess whether your case is near that end of the spectrum; should be noted, nonetheless, that even among meritorious mandamus actions, recovery of costs is not the norm and even when costs are awarded they tend to be way less than the actual costs, and further relief beyond IRCC proceeding to actually process the application (which administering the test constitutes) would be highly unusual.

It warrants a note, again, that this does not appear to be related to the fact that your PR status was obtained in the protected person or refugee class. Unless you know of some association other than the fact that was how your PR status was obtained. Or unless other PRs in this class come forward and report similar delays affecting them disproportionately compared to applicants for citizenship who obtained their PR status in other classes.

My general impression, not worth a whole lot perhaps, is that IRCC tends to promptly proceed with such cases. So your journey may indeed soon arrive at taking the oath. Still, please, keep us updated.

But again the update is appreciated and it will be especially appreciated if you continue to update the forum with information about how this goes from here. Most of the information about Mandamus actions I rely on comes from what is reported in Federal Court decisions, so it is really helpful when we get reliable reports about actual cases that may not result in a published decision.
@Mus87 @dpenabill

My application for citizenship was approved but I still need to take the oath of citizenship, according to the IRCC officer that interviewed me, I should get an invite to a citizenship ceremony in weeks.

IRCC officer thinks I should withdraw my Mandamus application but my lawyer recommended keeping it open to pressurize IRCC to invite me ASAP for the citizenship ceremony.
 
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Mus87

Star Member
Jun 25, 2019
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@Mus87 @dpenabill

My application for citizenship was approved but I still need to take the oath of citizenship, according to the IRCC officer that interviewed me, I should get an invite to a citizenship ceremony in weeks.

IRCC officer thinks I should withdraw my Mandamus application but my lawyer recommended keeping it open to pressurize IRCC to invite me ASAP for the citizenship ceremony.
Thank you so much for the update. I think I will go with the same route because it seems like it works. I will start working on it in the new year if I don’t hear anything back by then.

how did your interview go? Anything to highlight?