Reasons for RQ?

[citizentt]

I just wanted to start this useful topic......

From your experience, What are the reasons that anyone may receive RQ (before and after the test)?

If you can mention specific cases, this will be great

 

[pkakula]

In General the canadian government wants to give Permanant residant the citizenship after staying 3 years(plus additional time of 2-3 years in RQ) ,a total of 5-6 years so that they pay taxes.

Most of them are leaving country after Taking citizenship.

The fees will be hiked from 200-400 $ but this they say will only give them the budget to process 300000 applications in pending.
This fees hike does not gaurantee faster processing as i posted earlier.

There are high level politics going on and minister kenny is doing all the jimmiks .....Nothing we can do except sit and watch.

 

[torontosm]

In General the canadian government wants to give Permanant residant the citizenship after staying 3 years(plus additional time of 2-3 years in RQ) ,a total of 5-6 years so that they pay taxes.

There are high level politics going on and minister kenny is doing all the jimmiks .....Nothing we can do except sit and watch.

That is ridiculous. The RQ has nothing to do with the government seeking additional tax revenue, but is intended to crack down on the multitude of people who attempt to commit immigration fraud by pretending to live in Canada while they are actually abroad. These people do not contribute to the Canada or its economy, and are the primary cause for all of the RQ-related delays.

 

[Halloum]

Who knows .. i feel that it is not only fraudsters they are after. They want people to stay long enough. I must say, it might have been an easy decision for me or anybody for that matter to quit in the first 2 or 3 years here. But after having lived here since 2005, moving anywhere else becomes very very difficult. This is more so when you have a good job, grown up children in schools, etc. Of course, the opposite can be said if you do not have a job and is barely making it here, children are young etc. Also, making you learn to wait and be patient is an important part of the Canadian cultutre they want you to grasp!

 

[torontosm]

Who knows .. i feel that it is not only fraudsters they are after. They want people to stay long enough. I must say, it might have been an easy decision for me or anybody for that matter to quit in the first 2 or 3 years here. But after having lived here since 2005, moving anywhere else becomes very very difficult. This is more so when you have a good job, grown up children in schools, etc. Of course, the opposite can be said if you do not have a job and is barely making it here, children are young etc. Also, making you learn to wait and be patient is an important part of the Canadian cultutre they want you to grasp!

While I appreciate what you are saying, I remember about 10 years back, there was no RQ and the citizenship application process was very smooth, painless and quick. However, since then, the entire Canadian immigration system has been abused severely, and is still being abused, and as a result, the government has had to crack down (personally, I don't think they have done enough and there are still many loopholes that need to be closed such as the temporary foreign worker fiasco). But, putting my own views aside, if the reasons for the RQ delays were indeed to teach patience and integrate immigrants into Canadian society, then the process 10 years ago, or at least when the Conservatives first came into power, should have been the same as it is now.

 

[EasyRider]

That is ridiculous. The RQ has nothing to do with the government seeking additional tax revenue, but is intended to crack down on the multitude of people who attempt to commit immigration fraud by pretending to live in Canada while they are actually abroad. These people do not contribute to the Canada or its economy, and are the primary cause for all of the RQ-related delays.

This is the official rhetoric, what do you expect them to tell you else?

Unfortunately, new wave of pre-test RQ introduced after OB 407 implementation is not effectively addressing fraud issues, but mostly introduces more troubles and delays.

OB 407 was developed after CIC internal audit has discovered issue of "lack of evidence to support residency requirements on citizenship application file", however:

1) Pre-test RQ is given reportedly to 10-30% of applicants (30% is likely peak value), so 70-90% of applicants continue like under the old system, backed only by residency declaration in application. In other words, issue discovered during audit is not solved for the vast majority of files.

2) Pre-test RQ is ineffective in detecting fraud-- criteria was published and it also became known that it was applied pure mechanically, at least up until the end of 2012. What does issuing RQ to random people whom CIC people have never met, interviewed of examined their travel documents based on criteria like "A5 - Self-identified as a consultant, self-employed or unemployed, with any travel" or "C1 - ID has been issued within 3 months of date of application", for example, has to do with fraud detection?

Moreover, Kenney didn't have resources to properly implement changes (which were never well thought out in the 1st place, as we see now from internal emails when CIC staff can't find answers to their own questions promptly). He still decided to ram through with them, being aware of budget/personnel cuts, processing times that were already approaching 2 years back then for regular cases, enormous amount of resources he didn't have that would be required to process new RQ's and further rise in timelines beyond unacceptable levels.

At the time when you have your resources cut out, backlog growing and processing times nearing 2 years, instead of dealing with backlog, you think of and ram with implementing changes that are not thought out well (don't solve identified issues), require resources you were not given, result in skyrocketing of already abysmal backlog and timelines, create a gridlock.

Now we have 317,000 applicants and only 113,000 new citizens in 2012 and 23 month timeline (more for 10-30% of RQ'ed people).

So, I don't see how new RQ's solve CIC concerns discovered during audit (primary reason for new procedures put in place) and accomplish much to catch real fraudsters, and why it was so necessary to implement during massive budget and personnel cuts (and if it was such a big deal for everybody, why department didn't come up with a plan and asked for the resources first), except new regulations effectively raised processing timelines-- to almost 2 years (and this is a lagging figure, based on previously finalized apps, not ones that are in process now) for regular apps and much more for those with RQ.

It seems like the minister (or probably someone else who came up with that bright idea) using his executive power effectively made a process of acquiring citizenship tougher and longer (which can be seen as a procedural abuse), rather than properly starting from looking for resources for his programs 1st or going through legislative path and updating Citizenship Act.

 

[torontosm]

2) Pre-test RQ is ineffective in detecting fraud-- criteria was published and it also became known that it was applied pure mechanically, at least up until the end of 2012. What does issuing RQ to random people whom CIC people have never met, interviewed of examined their travel documents based on criteria like "A5 - Self-identified as a consultant, self-employed or unemployed, with any travel" or "C1 - ID has been issued within 3 months of date of application", for example, has to do with fraud detection?

I question your broad generalizations about how ineffective introduction of RQ's has been.....just from reading comments on the various immigration forums, there are numerous people who immediately withdraw their applications after receiving an RQ, many of whom admit to misrepresenting their time in Canada.

Also, the criteria that you hold up as baseless are quite sound in my opinion. If someone is a consultant, self employed or unemployed, they have no regular income stream or taxes witheld, and therefore it is more difficult to audit their actual presence. On the other hand, if someone is working and their employer remits income taxes to the CRA on a bi-weekly basis, it is much easier to verify that they were truly in Canada for the time they claim. Similarly, if someone's ID has recently been issued, they may be trying to conceal entry/exit stamps on their previous passport, and it is a perfectly understandable and rational red flag.

Moreover, Kenney didn't have resources to properly implement changes (which were never well thought out in the 1st place, as we see now from internal emails when CIC staff can't find answers to their own questions promptly). He still decided to ram through with them, being aware of budget/personnel cuts, processing times that were already approaching 2 years back then for regular cases, enormous amount of resources he didn't have that would be required to process new RQ's and further rise in timelines beyond unacceptable levels.

I am the last person to say that the Minister is handling things perfectly. However, I am delighted to see that he is at least doing something to stem the rampant fraud that has, and still, plagues the immigration system. It is an important first step and was long overdue. I agree that it needs improvement, and hopefully the funds will become available to shorten the timelines associated with the review process. In the interim, people that truly immigrated to Canada to live here shouldn't have too much of an issue with a slight delay.

So, I don't see how new RQ's solve CIC concerns discovered during audit (primary reason for new procedures put in place) and accomplish much to catch real fraudsters, and why it was so necessary to implement during massive budget and personnel cuts (and if it was such a big deal for everybody, why department didn't come up with a plan and asked for the resources first), except new regulations effectively raised processing timelines-- to almost 2 years (and this is a lagging figure, based on previously finalized apps, not ones that are in process now) for regular apps and much more for those with RQ.

RQ's may not solve all of CIC's concerns, but they do help to identify those people who are hurting the rest of us. Do you have a better solution? If so, please post it here.

 

[bendjoe]

For new applications ask for supporting documents like, tax returns, mortgages,insurance,employment letters, CBSA, health reports etc along with the application itself.

For old applicants give them the test and interview and ask them to bring the fore mentioned documents as proof to the interview.

If the interviewer is not satisfied with the documents then issue an RQ.

 

[Halloum]

@torontosm

Of course there is another alternative. Swipe people's PR Cards in and out. it is way beyond Canada standards but it is the right thing to do. For those who don't swipe in their way out. Next time they come in. Consider them absent since their last recorded entry unless they provide a convincing evidence beyond doubt that they left on a specific day. How is that as a solution for this fiasco? BUT officers in CiC know that if they do that half the government employees will have no jobs

 

[torontosm]

For new applications ask for supporting documents like, tax returns, mortgages,insurance,employment letters, CBSA, health reports etc along with the application itself.

For old applicants give them the test and interview and ask them to bring the fore mentioned documents as proof to the interview.

If the interviewer is not satisfied with the documents then issue an RQ.

Wouldn't reviewing the histories of each and every applicant just cause further delays? The timeline would likely be extended to 3 years + if the existing IO's had to review the documents of every applicant.

 

[torontosm]

@ torontosm

Of course there is another alternative. Swipe people's PR Cards in and out. it is way beyond Canada standards but it is the right thing to do. For those who don't swipe in their way out. Next time they come in. Consider them absent since their last recorded entry unless they provide a convincing evidence beyond doubt that they left on a specific day. How is that as a solution for this fiasco? BUT officers in CiC know that if they do that half the government employees will have no jobs

I think that would be the ideal solution, and agree with you wholeheartedly. It would, in one swoop, eliminate all misrepresentation. Unfortunately, it would also mean the implementation of "exit immigration control" counters at each and every border crossing, which would likely be extremely expensive to set up and man on a 24x7 basis. Also, having experienced similar setups in the Middle East and Asia, I think it would not be broadly accepted by the general population who may view it as an infringement of rights.

 

[mvb]

In which way, having the exit control is infringement of rights? CBSA is going to have an extra record of your movement exiting outside the country.

This is very common practice everywhere inclusive of Europe, Asia, Australia except US.

 

[RAEDSARA]

As being in RQ since December of 2009, I think the government itself is running a false immigration campaign abroad. The government itself should be truthfull and honest in their goals. Do they really want labourers or professionals. Because what is happenning now that Canada is importing immigrants who will end up labour workers who will be frustrated then trying to leave then the trike him with a RQ. My own opinion, Canada has one the most failed immigration systems in the world compared to countries like australia or the us. Canadian Immigrants became the cow that without milking it, no milk on the table. That milk is the money they bring with them, the taxes they pay, the fees they pay, real estate, banks. Honestly, we should be ashamed of ourselves that abusing immigrants became the norm by the governments and its agents.

 

[Msafiri]

@ torontosm

Of course there is another alternative. Swipe people's PR Cards in and out. it is way beyond Canada standards but it is the right thing to do. For those who don't swipe in their way out. Next time they come in. Consider them absent since their last recorded entry unless they provide a convincing evidence beyond doubt that they left on a specific day. How is that as a solution for this fiasco? BUT officers in CiC know that if they do that half the government employees will have no jobs

Exit controls are unworkable under the current set up without straining the system and causing serious delays primarily due to the volume of traffic crossing the Canada/ US land border..its already bad enough crossing on a weekend could you imagine the line ups if they had to record/ scan/stamp each exit on a daily basis?

The US/ Canada land border has and continues to be the source of much undeclared absence..you don't always get stamps at either side so many frauds have used this to mask exits. The use of multiple travel documents is another challenge. Exit Canada to US on ppt A no stamps, exit US to Country X on ppt B, return to US on ppt B, return to Canada on ppt A...present ppt A at citizenship test - days in country X don't exist.

Australia's key advantage is being an island - its easier to monitor air passenger traffic flow..mostly as the responsibility can be passed on to the airlines as part of the check in process.

The RQ is here to stay...CIC may fine tune it but the range of ways for residence fraud is too wide and they need to retain operational control so they will continue to cast the net wide...the inventory of applicants vis a vis CIC resource is what adds to the delay.

IMHO the citizenship test should be done prior to application and the results submitted at application time - they do this in the UK. This will get work on a serious bottleneck as it will minimize the risks of background/ security checks expiring and getting a clear inventory with faster times to the oath.

 

[torontosm]

Canada has one the most failed immigration systems in the world compared to countries like australia or the us. Canadian Immigrants became the cow that without milking it, no milk on the table. That milk is the money they bring with them, the taxes they pay, the fees they pay, real estate, banks. Honestly, we should be ashamed of ourselves that abusing immigrants became the norm by the governments and its agents.

With all due respect, each immigrant that comes to Canada does so willingly. Canada is one of the few developed countries that welcomes them and provides them will full rights from the first day they arrive. I think it is extremely unreasonable to expect the government to also provide them with jobs and steady income.

Since you brought up the concept of laborers, I think that point is valid. I am extremely frustrated to see lower skilled people sneaking through the back door of the immigration system by getting TFW visas for low-skilled jobs and then applying for PR and sponsoring their entire families for PR. Many of these TFW applicants do not have the skills, experience, education and/or backgrounds that the Government requires from regular immigrants, so why should they be allowed accelerated PR qualification? I hope that with all of the media uproar, the entire TFW program is revamped entirely and this nonsense is stopped.