When did you first land and become a PR? When did you submit your application to renew the PR card?
Re-entering Canada without PR Card, only CoPR and passport - by plane
- Thread starter donnanne
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When did you first land and become a PR? When did you submit your application to renew the PR card?
Hello,
Thank you for your revert.
i became PR and landed in October 2015 , after few short trips to canada finally moved october 2018.. PR application I had put on March 15.2021
So here's the thing: you applied on March 15 2021, so according to your own table, you were not in compliance with the residency obligation when you applied. They could have started the process of revoking your PR card for non-compliance.
I'm not clear on where that puts you now or how IRCC will proceed. But from your own table, it looks like you had less than 500 days when you applied. Wehn did you get notification that the card would be ready for pick-up?
Because it looks to me like you would have been out of compliance with the resdiency obligation when they said it was ready for pickup - you only became compliant sometime in November this year.
So again - I think there's reason to be cautious. But I won't say I know what the situation is.
- on march 15, 2021 i had not completed the residency days
- On october 27, 2021 I got a reply to a webform from agent and then confirmation on call that my PR card has been approved and has been sent to local office for pick up
- i completed 730 days in november 2021 only
so for border check i have the COPR, expired PR card, driving license, car insurance , and other ID docs, and banking + housing docs
also my child is canadian citizen and their daycare and other docs
including last 5 years table of completing 730 days
I am just thinking if I am missing anything,...
I don't think they will stop me at the land border as per the previous posts, but i have to be cautious with regard to reporting ..
- On october 27, 2021 I got a reply to a webform from agent and then confirmation on call that my PR card has been approved and has been sent to local office for pick up
- i completed 730 days in november 2021 only
so for border check i have the COPR, expired PR card, driving license, car insurance , and other ID docs, and banking + housing docs
also my child is canadian citizen and their daycare and other docs
including last 5 years table of completing 730 days
I am just thinking if I am missing anything,...
I don't think they will stop me at the land border as per the previous posts, but i have to be cautious with regard to reporting ..
Also the confirmation from the IRCC agent of webform that PR card has been approved on mail record should be of any help ..
How is a telephone conversation going to help you? I mean, it's possibly a bit reassuring, but how would you apply this? "Somebody told me on the phone?"
I honestly don't know and defer to those that may have more information on practice and communications.
Now that we've clarified this point - that you were out of compliance both when you applied and when you were advised your PR card was ready - I don't know what to say. From what I've heard, it seems highly unusual for a PR card to be approved at the point when you were still not in compliance with RO. But perhaps there is something yet more that I'm missing.
Thank you for your insight , will wait to see if any one else is there who can comment and share further opinion.
You are correct when I applied in MARCH 2021 and the confirmation I received from agent on approval towards October end 2021 I had not completed RO , but as of today I will be once I travel (hoping that would work ).. also feel covered on the document front as along with completed RO , and may be that i will be returning in 2 weeks helps.. hopefully..
Thanks again
You are correct when I applied in MARCH 2021 and the confirmation I received from agent on approval towards October end 2021 I had not completed RO , but as of today I will be once I travel (hoping that would work ).. also feel covered on the document front as along with completed RO , and may be that i will be returning in 2 weeks helps.. hopefully..
Thanks again
I have a mail confirmation from the IRCC agent on the webform that PR card has been approved on mail record, that should be helpful .. they replied to the webform regarding my query
Yes ..... the text goes like below....
Thank you for contacting Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC).
We verified the information on your file and are pleased to inform you that your permanent resident card (PR card) has been approved.
Once the card issued, it is sometimes randomly selected in order for you to pick it up in person at an IRCC office. This random selection is done to allow IRCC to gather information in our continuous effort to improve the processing of PR card applications.
As your card has been selected for pick-up, rest assured that you will be informed of the date, time, location for pick-up, and of the type of documents you will be asked to bring with you in due time.
Hopefully this should be satisfactory @ border
Based on what you have reported, absent some other circumstances inviting concern, a two week trip returning by private transportation, and presenting an expired PR card, suggests little cause to worry about how things go at the Port-of-Entry.
I understand the reluctance of @armoured to give a more or less all clear signal. Even now you are well within the range of what some refer to as cutting-it-close, and cutting-it-close inherently involves risks. After all, the burden of proving actual presence in Canada is on you, the PR, and if the decision-maker examining you has questions about any of the days you report being in Canada, since you have been outside Canada more than in Canada that tends to push inferences toward being outside Canada (if there is some uncertainty about where you actually were during a given period of time, some doubt about the proof, it is simply more likely you were where you usually were, which in your history was NOT in Canada).
And the fact the PR card was sent to a local office for in-person pick-up typically (not always, but usually) signals IRCC, at the least, wants verification you are actually IN Canada before delivering a new PR card. In person pick-up can involve, at the least, a counter-interview so that the local office can verify certain information, such as RO compliance, before actually delivering the new card. Unless and until the new card is actually DELIVERED you do not have a new PR card.
Combined with having made the PR card application based on H&C reasons rather than compliance with the Residency Obligation, it is difficult to know whether your GCMS records are flagged (with an "alert"), let alone what any such alert actually says. There is not sufficient time now to obtain a copy of your GCMS records and information like that probably would not be shared with you anyway, as it probably falls within the scope of investigatory methods and means.
It warrants noting that when you arrived here in July last year you were, at that time, way in breach of the RO. How things went going through the Port-of-Entry that time might (but only might) offer some signal, depending on the details (not suggesting you share the details now).
On the other hand, at this stage of things your GCMS records may show that an affirmative H&C decision has been made in your favour and you really are not among those cutting-it-close, and upon presenting your expired PR card you get waived through by the PIL (Primary Inspection Line) officer, no problem at all.
My bet is that your situation is closer to the latter. All should go well. But it's not like I have real skin in the game.
Probably a good idea to carry objective evidence, documents, showing your presence in Canada the last 16 months, and something to document the other periods of time you were in Canada, to show if you are referred to Secondary and examined about RO compliance. Hard to see this resulting in being Reported, and assuming you stay here during an appeal if you are Reported, odds seem to be at least good if not very good that would go in your favour. But the RISK is about more than just the probability of a negative outcome; it is also about what is at stake. And no one here can reliably forecast what the probabilities are.
During normal times it is difficult to know how often positive H&C decisions are made in favour of PR card applicants. During the last year and a half it is totally off the charts, no way of even guessing what the numbers might be.
Among factors that might have worked favourably for @aab9560 (and this would apply as well to the how things went at the PoE in July 2020, arriving here not all that long before the PR card expired and being in breach of the RO by a lot), were the occasional trips to Canada, somewhat reducing the length of any particular absence (especially having come to Canada a couple times in the year before, and staying for a significant period) and perhaps even a bigger factor, the minor child who is a Canadian citizen. Both indicate ties to Canada and the latter evokes the best interests of a dependent child consideration.
When it comes to PR RO compliance enforcement, the numbers are important but other factors can loom very large. There are almost always reasons why one PR just a little short of compliance can run into serious issues, and a PR in compliance cutting-it-close can encounter more hurdles (including, for example, a PR card application going to Secondary Review, and taking a year to process), compared to the situations where PRs substantially short of compliance, by the numbers, hardly encounter questions let alone problems. And, indeed, this is why many of us are reluctant to proffer definite probability numbers, because there are so many various factors which can influence how it goes.
We know the numbers actually matter. I often emphasize that the extent to which a PR is now settled and apparently living in Canada permanently can have a lot of influence . . . and very much in a not-so-good way if it appears the PR is not settled or settling in Canada. Ties in Canada can be a big factor. And there are the more vague influences: credibility, and even more vague, whether it appears the PR deserves to keep PR status.
All of which reinforces reasons for us to avoid speculating much about how things will actually go for any particular individual. So I have gone out a bit on a limb here, in offering "my bet," so I should add that my bet is not worth a whole lot.
Many LEO's (not all) are idiots and bullies (two go hand in hand). They have too little brains and too great fantasy about their non-existing powers. Unable to fight true criminals and bad guys (who are usually rats and snitches who collaborate with their captors and protected by higher sitting LEOs), the stupid LEOs end up harassing legitimate, ordinary individuals without any valid reasons (who else can they harass?). In the past we used to have Fourth Amendment, that protected us from such invasive, Orwellian bullies. But since 911, which was used by unscrupulous triple Hermetic border sealers as a disguise to strip us of our constitutional rights and protections (similar processes occurred in Canada), things have changed. So , don't be surprised if you are harassed at the POE, even if you violated no law and are in full compliance with RO, All it takes is a "suspicion" (aka projection, a fantasy) and ill will of secret worshipping Occult/Hermetic border agent to give you a hard time. I had two of such encounters at Canadian POE on land. On both I was accompanied by other individuals who insisted that I don't make a big deal out of it (ordinarily, my MO would be to make very big deal, record video, collect evidence, publish it on YouTube/internet media, report to supervisor, report to MP, seek legal consultation and any opportunity to sue in a court of law. Outcome is irrelevant, making sure we fight back is everything. And publicity is just as important. Let not these hypocrites go and lecture other nations on democracy and human rights while they bully, abuse and mistreat common people under their own jurisdictions). But I have long memory. I never forget. And I try to warn and help those who might find themselves in similar circumstance but lack my audacity, confidence and willingness to fight back against Goliaths on their own turf.
So, here is my advise:
1. If you are in RO compliance and have valid PR status, you are entitled to be admitted into Canada, and border agent at POE won't be able to do anything about it.
2. Above being said, border agent still can harass you (for reasons stated earlier). So, just make sure you have in your possession enough evidence to overcome whatever is being questioned. Usually, it's around/about RO.
I remain unclear on whether this PR card approval represents a formal H&C decision; but defer to judgment of others on that, and if that seems to be the case, would overall agree that the balance of evidence suggests that @aab9560 is / will be in compliance at the date of return and not that likely to have issues.
Interesting to see and follow here whether IRCC is making more decisions to renew PR cards in some cases (as noted, most likely those where individual is factually resident in Canada and just short of days in the RO. Of course, even with a new card, the RO still applies (although much lower likelihood of RO questions with a short-dated card, I reckon).
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