Re Apply or Appeal ?

[SponsorCanada87]

Hi,

Introduction : I sponsored my wife for permanent residency in Canada. We were married in March 2011. I filed in Dec 2011 . File goes to New Delhi CIC office in Feb 2012. I go back to India in April 2012 to see my wife. She had a interview in Aug 2012.


Strange things happened to my wife at interview.

1) Visa officer constantly was playing with my wifes passport like moving up and down. This distracted her

2) Visa officer said "This is unacceptable" to any of the information my wife provided.

This brought my wife into nervous breakdown and she could not say what she was suppose to say.


For example when there was a question about why it took us so long to apply to sponsor. She was about to show a court order on her high school certificate which took almost 3-4 months time but she could not because of VO's rude behavior.

She went so low in harassing her by saying,

1) How my parents are educated enough to make money in Canada so that I can live with her in India. And she tells my wife that she has no excuse to prove her point because I was not with her for 1 year after marriage. (India - Canada is that a piece of joke -i need atleast $4000 to go there once). And I did go to India exactly 1 year after my marriage.

2) Visa officer asked her questions like "how much money does her father in law make ?" and then insults her further how she does not know that.

3) Visa officer asks her why did she not go to the main airport where I landed to see me.( In my country India it is not very safe for women to travel very freely at public places. So my wife came to meet me at local railway station where I was about to stay. )

4) Visa officer asks for chat history 7 years old ? (we had 3 years old this was not enough. who would record something that old. )


I know my relationship is genuine. My case is supported strong with 50 photos of honeymoon + wedding + photos with my in laws + her photos with my in laws. We have long distance chat for last 3 years + phone bills for last 2 years for almost every day. We have hotel bills , joint bank a/c , travel tickets, boarding passes, movie tickets , money transfers , gifts reciepts and almost everything to support a real relationship. Since ours was love marriage unlike arranged marriages in India we did it low profile. I could not cover photographer to take all the rituals (saath pheras) that was my only mistake.


Our file got rejected their actual reason was because CIC thinks our relationship is not genuine and it was primarily done for the purpose of coming to Canada.


My question is Should I Re Apply or go for Appeal ?

If I re apply I am wiling to get re-married and do all the rituals . It will be embarrassment in front of guests but I am willing to do it again and get all the rituals covered and photographed. I am willing to stay there for 6-8 months till her file processes. I am canadian citizen so this should not be a problem. This was the only thing missing other then this I had like all the proofs asked on CICs website.


What is your suggestion anyone ?

 

[I.N]

Sorry to hear that your wife's application was rejected.

I am not an expert but I think the first thing to do is to appeal the decision.

Good luck!

 

[dkera]

while i agree appeal is the "logical" choice in many cases a re-apply is faster.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

Sorry to hear that your wife's application was rejected.

I am not an expert but I think the first thing to do is to appeal the decision.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for your suggestion.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

while i agree appeal is the "logical" choice in many cases a re-apply is faster.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion.

 

[CharlieD10]

Re-applying puts you in danger of being told that the matter is "res judicata" or "already decided".

If you have all this proof, and it is a matter that your wife did poorly on the interview due to various reasons and distractions, in your shoes I would appeal the decision. An appeal is a hearing "de nvo" or "from the beginning", so the appeal judge is not bound by the decision of the immigration officer, he/she will come to their own conclusion based on all the evidence from the start.

Order your GCMS notes from the interview, take them to an immigration lawyer and get a professional opinion. You only have 30 days from notice of the decision to file a notice of appeal, you need to proceed with urgency.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

Re-applying puts you in danger of being told that the matter is "res judicata" or "already decided".

If you have all this proof, and it is a matter that your wife did poorly on the interview due to various reasons and distractions, in your shoes I would appeal the decision. An appeal is a hearing "de nvo" or "from the beginning", so the appeal judge is not bound by the decision of the immigration officer, he/she will come to their own conclusion based on all the evidence from the start.

Order your GCMS notes from the interview, take them to an immigration lawyer and get a professional opinion. You only have 30 days from notice of the decision to file a notice of appeal, you need to proceed with urgency.

I ordered GCMS notes already before her interview.

Important Notes
Notes Section of GCMS notes

Couple appears compatible in terms of age,education, religion , marital and social background.

Require following documents/information :- photographs of marriage depicting all rituals of traditional hindu wedding

Decision is pending until receipt of above mentioned documents.

ON the next one it states
**recommended for Interview**
PA was advised to submit photographs of marriage depicting rituals as per tradition.
PA has submitted a few photographs of marriage and outings.

________________
I have ordered GCMS notes again after her interview. The reason why I was willing to re apply was through there GCMS notes it seems like they have rejected my application only because I did not have sufficient ritual pictures.

In indian wedding they want us to go through a fire with seven rounds also known as 'saath pheras' .
I did not read know about their strictness with them before I wed or I would have specifically taken those pictures.

Although I have pictures with my wife having garland , ring , hindu maharaj(priest) , mehndi on her hands. I had my mother and her in laws there as well. Almost 20-30 people are seen. Although 100 attended.

If this is the only reason why Visa Officer is denying I might as well re do it. Technically I have all other proofs sufficiently to satisfy them. What went wrong on Visa officers mind I will only know when I receive my GCMS notes again but I do not have enough time for that(takes about 4 weeks) as I have already received letter for appeal.


I feel Appeal will take more of 8 months and if I win then file will move back to CIC . They want me to physically stay present in Canada when there is a hearing.If I re apply then I can stay with my wife. I cannot leave her alone after she going all this BS . since I have dual citizenship this will allow us too.


But as you said Re-applying puts you in danger of being told that the matter is "res judicata" or "already decided". It seems like I have 55% good chances of doing appeal and 45% re applying.

Thanks for your suggestion CharlieD10.

 

[canadianwoman]

If I re apply I am wiling to get re-married and do all the rituals . It will be embarrassment in front of guests but I am willing to do it again and get all the rituals covered and photographed. I am willing to stay there for 6-8 months till her file processes. I am canadian citizen so this should not be a problem. This was the only thing missing other then this I had like all the proofs asked on CICs website.

Sometimes when people do this the evidence will not be accepted. The visa officer or appeal court judge will think: "Well, if it was important, why didn't they do it in the first place?" They will think the only reason you are doing it now is to make the immigration application look better. Anything done only to make the application look better is taken as a sign that the relationship is fake.

IMO you are better off appealing and explaining why you didn't take all the photos an Indian couple would usually take: lack of money; it was a love match, not an arranged marriage, so the ceremonies were not as elaborate as usual; you did in fact do the ceremonies, you just don't have photos of all of them (you could get affidavits from people who were there attesting to this); etc.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

Sometimes when people do this the evidence will not be accepted. The visa officer or appeal court judge will think: "Well, if it was important, why didn't they do it in the first place?" They will think the only reason you are doing it now is to make the immigration application look better. Anything done only to make the application look better is taken as a sign that the relationship is fake.

IMO you are better off appealing and explaining why you didn't take all the photos an Indian couple would usually take: lack of money; it was a love match, not an arranged marriage, so the ceremonies were not as elaborate as usual; you did in fact do the ceremonies, you just don't have photos of all of them (you could get affidavits from people who were there attesting to this); etc.

If I re apply.

Will this go wrong even if 1) I get them lots more post wedding pictures .2) I have not done wedding reception yet. Maybe I can add that. (I can forget about re - wedding with rituals) 3) I am thinking to get govt IDs with the same address we will stay for next 8 months to a year till our file processes. 4) Pictures of her with my cousins wedding. It is coming soon in December. 5) More vacation pictures. 6) Joint a/c statements after I started to stay with her 7) All grocery bills and everything of us staying together. 8 ) Police clearance from same address 9) Our tickets to show we went to do her medicals together.

I will describe our story in very detail from the start till present. Considering this was my first wedding with all proofs I will collect aswell as all from first application I feel I have a strong case.


If I Appeal.

It will get expensive. I will have to stay in Canada for next 8 months. I just visited my wife in april 2012. But , I do not feel like letting her stay alone at this moment. In last 2 years since my wedding I could just spent 2 months with her.


Thanks a lot for your suggestions CanadianWoman.

 

[canadianwoman]

If I re apply.

Will this go wrong even if 1) I get them lots more post wedding pictures .2) I have not done wedding reception yet. Maybe I can add that. (I can forget about re - wedding with rituals) 3) I am thinking to get govt IDs with the same address we will stay for next 8 months to a year till our file processes. 4) Pictures of her with my cousins wedding. It is coming soon in December. 5) More vacation pictures. 6) Joint a/c statements after I started to stay with her 7) All grocery bills and everything of us staying together. 8 ) Police clearance from same address 9) Our tickets to show we went to do her medicals together.

I will describe our story in very detail from the start till present. Considering this was my first wedding with all proofs I will collect aswell as all from first application I feel I have a strong case.

All these things are good types of evidence to submit. If you do have a wedding reception, you will need to explain why you had it so long after the wedding - there are good reasons, such as wanting family members to be able to attend who could not have at some other time, money reasons, vacation times, etc. Reapplying with more evidence, and in particular different kinds of evidence (such as proof you have stayed with her/are living with her) could work out fine. Unfortunately it is hard to guess how the visa officers will decide.
Actually living with her for an extended period of time, as you are suggesting here, will help show the relationship is real. However, if you are staying with her for a long time, you will then have to give proof in the application that you will be going back to Canada.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

However, if you are staying with her for a long time, you will then have to give proof in the application that you will be going back to Canada.

What will be the best way to prove that I will be going back to Canada.

I do sub contract work with Canadian firms. I am self employed since last 3 years. I can get written agreement from the firms I work with for upto 2014.

Also, will I able to file my application from India as a sponsor or I will have to come here once. Since we will be staying together. I am Canadian citizen here.

 

[canadianwoman]

Since you are a Canadian citizen, you can file your sponsorship from outside Canada.
As for proving you will return to Canada: a written agreement or contract from the firms you work with would be great; other proof depends on your situation. You can send in two types of proof: one showing that you will be moving back to Canada, and the other showing how you are getting ready to leave India. People have sent in things like: job offers; proof of job search in Canada; proof of ownership or lease of property in Canada; proof of search for an apartment in Canada; proof of enrollment in a Canadian school; letters from family members offering to help you or give you a place to stay when you first get back; letters from family and friends stating they know of your plans to move back to Canada; proof you have informed your employer in India that you will be leaving on such and such a date; etc.

 

[rabu]

so when you applied for her at that time you were not a canadian citizen but now you are? this makes me sooo sadddddd really and worried im sorry for you

 

[SponsorCanada87]

Since you are a Canadian citizen, you can file your sponsorship from outside Canada.
As for proving you will return to Canada: a written agreement or contract from the firms you work with would be great; other proof depends on your situation. You can send in two types of proof: one showing that you will be moving back to Canada, and the other showing how you are getting ready to leave India. People have sent in things like: job offers; proof of job search in Canada; proof of ownership or lease of property in Canada; proof of search for an apartment in Canada; proof of enrollment in a Canadian school; letters from family members offering to help you or give you a place to stay when you first get back; letters from family and friends stating they know of your plans to move back to Canada; proof you have informed your employer in India that you will be leaving on such and such a date; etc.

Thankyou so much CanadianWoman u the best.

 

[SponsorCanada87]

so when you applied for her at that time you were not a canadian citizen but now you are? this makes me sooo sadddddd really and worried im sorry for you

Oh you should not be worried.

My case is one of the very unfortunate ones. I pray no one ends up in my shoes.

I know so many of my friends case went through exactly fine with same evidences and situations like mine.