Ray of Hope - 121st Draw

[nadal87]

Everyone here talking blindly about ITAs (numbers, trends) and potential implication on immigration targets come across as hugely uninformed and completely unaware of how organizations work.

Remember that Canadian immigration programs have a larger mandate to achieve - to attract and retain the most talented individuals in the world - and - to maintain Canada's relatively high standards of living and image as a nation of immigrants.
This objective is more important than an immigration target which represents sub 1% fraction of Canadian population.

The immigration agency also has far more info than any of us. If there are indications that individuals below a certain threshold are not likely to improve overall quality of life for the remaining Canadians, they will not be invited - at least not in the Express entry system. There are other avenues for those people. For now, through EE, the CRS score is highly correlated with how Canada measures individuals.

In light of this - if I headed the immigration agency - I would look through data and cleverly manage different draws to ensure CRS stays up and trends higher year over year while staying close to immigration targets.
That's exactly whats happening today.

How does this impact an applicant?
It should bode well that there's a push towards higher scores. Improves chances of Canadian standards being maintained or enhanced.
Don't try to predict when the score will fall. Assume there will be a constant push up with relatively fewer instances of big drops. Focus on getting your maximum score.
Don't push back on the immigration agency or their methods or how stressful the process is. They don't need to have your best interests at heart. That's your country's job. The Canadian agency needs to have a Canadian civilian's interest foremost. They should adjust the program and keep pushing the it towards better talent.
Finally, being an immigrant myself (right now in the US), I can tell you that the Express Entry system is currently the world's most transparent system - this is the best there is. Just look at how other countries manage this process and you'll see that Canada is doing a great job - not just for themselves, but this system truly is the most friendly for any applicant.

TLDR - Stop whining and calculating. Just push towards the best you can be and show that you deserve the ITA.

Your 10000 word essay would be factually correct if CRS score was a real indication of someones ability. Scores can be high for a variety of reasons, I will name a few, off the top of my head:

1. Age under 30
2. Siblings in Canada
3. Canadian Degree
4. Canadian work experience
5. French skills

A candidate who has fulfilled all the above criterions should get a score of 500+ but that doesn't mean he is better than a candidate who is unfortunately 37 years old; who despite having an MBA from Wharton and/or an Engineering degree from MIT and with 15 years of work experience at top companies like Google or Apple gets a score 442?

CRS score doesn't justify a persons ability nor does it ensure that only highly skilled candidates get through, with the above example it's clear that candidate 2 fits the bill of being highly skilled, but his CRS ensures that he wont be getting an ITA anytime soon.

Even if you consider the economic aspect of it, the second candidate is bound to earn a higher salary when he lands a job, which means higher income in taxes for Canada. So who should be more welcomed?

 

[jricardobt]

Everyone here talking blindly about ITAs (numbers, trends) and potential implication on immigration targets come across as hugely uninformed and completely unaware of how organizations work.

Remember that Canadian immigration programs have a larger mandate to achieve - to attract and retain the most talented individuals in the world - and - to maintain Canada's relatively high standards of living and image as a nation of immigrants.
This objective is more important than an immigration target which represents sub 1% fraction of Canadian population.

The immigration agency also has far more info than any of us. If there are indications that individuals below a certain threshold are not likely to improve overall quality of life for the remaining Canadians, they will not be invited - at least not in the Express entry system. There are other avenues for those people. For now, through EE, the CRS score is highly correlated with how Canada measures individuals.

In light of this - if I headed the immigration agency - I would look through data and cleverly manage different draws to ensure CRS stays up and trends higher year over year while staying close to immigration targets.
That's exactly whats happening today.

How does this impact an applicant?
It should bode well that there's a push towards higher scores. Improves chances of Canadian standards being maintained or enhanced.
Don't try to predict when the score will fall. Assume there will be a constant push up with relatively fewer instances of big drops. Focus on getting your maximum score.
Don't push back on the immigration agency or their methods or how stressful the process is. They don't need to have your best interests at heart. That's your country's job. The Canadian agency needs to have a Canadian civilian's interest foremost. They should adjust the program and keep pushing the it towards better talent.
Finally, being an immigrant myself (right now in the US), I can tell you that the Express Entry system is currently the world's most transparent system - this is the best there is. Just look at how other countries manage this process and you'll see that Canada is doing a great job - not just for themselves, but this system truly is the most friendly for any applicant.

TLDR - Stop whining and calculating. Just push towards the best you can be and show that you deserve the ITA.

I would like to agree with you, but then we would be 2 guys talking garbage. If you dont have anything good to say, just be quiet at all.

Truth to be told: you are absolutely and utterly wrong. Band 2 to your essay.

 

[sys1user]

Your 10000 word essay would be factually correct if CRS score was a real indication of someones ability. Scores can be high for a variety of reasons, at the top of my head I will name a few:

1. Age under 30
2. Siblings in Canada
3. Canadian Degree
4. Canadian work experience
5. French skills

A candidate who has fulfilled all the above criterions should get a score of 500+ but that doesn't mean he is better than a candidate who is unfortunately 37 years old; who despite having an MBA from Wharton and/or an Engineering degree from MIT with 15 years of work experience at top companies like Google or Apple gets a score 442?

CRS score doesn't justify a persons ability nor does it ensure that only highly skilled candidates get through, with the above example it's clear that candidate 2 fits the bill of being highly skilled, but his CRS ensures that he wont be getting an ITA anytime soon.

Even if you consider the economic aspect of it, the second candidate is bound to earn a higher salary when he lands a job, which means higher income in taxes for Canada. So who should be more welcomed?

Your 10000 word essay would be factually correct if CRS score was a real indication of someones ability. Scores can be high for a variety of reasons, at the top of my head I will name a few:

1. Age under 30
2. Siblings in Canada
3. Canadian Degree
4. Canadian work experience
5. French skills

A candidate who has fulfilled all the above criterions should get a score of 500+ but that doesn't mean he is better than a candidate who is unfortunately 37 years old; who despite having an MBA from Wharton and/or an Engineering degree from MIT with 15 years of work experience at top companies like Google or Apple gets a score 442?

CRS score doesn't justify a persons ability nor does it ensure that only highly skilled candidates get through, with the above example it's clear that candidate 2 fits the bill of being highly skilled, but his CRS ensures that he wont be getting an ITA anytime soon.

Even if you consider the economic aspect of it, the second candidate is bound to earn a higher salary when he lands a job, which means higher income in taxes for Canada. So who should be more welcomed?

Again, this is uninformed.

I am not suggesting CRS in current form is designed in an ideal fashion. But its reasonable, objective, and works fairly in good majority of the cases. This is the system right now, and we know that adjustments to CRS scoring algorithm does happen.

Finally, re: 37 year old vs. under 30 - Its more complex than the simplistic view you've taken. Remember that its not taxes alone. Its also the buy-in through social security contributions and health. A 28 year old has a 9 year headstart in contributions. And with a high CRS (=better education), a 28 year old could earn more in nine years than the 37 year old today. Also, the younger person is likely to dip into social security or healthcare much later allowing contributions to compound.

I personally fall in this exact scenario - which is why my CRS is barely there and I dont have an ITA. I do however realize and appreciate that a generation younger to me deserves more of a chance than my aging peer group.

 

[Nsidhu]

what are benefits of hiring an Immigration AGENT ?

you mean for filling and submitting application ?

 

[nadal87]

Again, this is uninformed.

I am not suggesting CRS in current form is designed in an ideal fashion. But its reasonable, objective, and works fairly in good majority of the cases. This is the system right now, and we know that adjustments to CRS scoring algorithm does happen.

Finally, re: 37 year old vs. under 30 - Its more complex than the simplistic view you've taken. Remember that its not taxes alone. Its also the buy-in through social security contributions and health. A 28 year old has a 9 year headstart in contributions. And with a high CRS (=better education), a 28 year old could earn more in nine years than the 37 year old today. Also, the younger person is likely to dip into social security or healthcare much later allowing contributions to compound.

I personally fall in this exact scenario - which is why my CRS is barely there and I dont have an ITA. I do however realize and appreciate that a generation younger to me deserves more of a chance than my aging peer group.

With the criterion’s I’ve mentioned, I am certain that the system doesn’t work as they intended it to work. How is it skill based immigration if someone has a higher CRS just because they have a sibling in Canada?

I think you misunderstood me, I meant to compare a highly skilled 37 year old with an average 30 year old (because the latter has a higher CRS score). In your example you are comparing two average Joe’s.

A person who is highly skilled will always make more than an average person and even though he is 9 years behind, his contributions to the system will be far more than that of the average person.

 

[sys1user]

With the criterion’s I’ve mentioned, I am certain that the system doesn’t work as they intended it to be. How is it skill based immigration if someone has a higher CRS just because they have a sibling in Canada?

I think you misunderstood me, I meant to compare a highly skilled 37 year old with an average 30 year old (because the latter has a higher CRS score). In your example you are comparing two average Joe’s.

A person who is highly skilled will always make more than an average person and even though he is 9 years behind, his contributions to the system will be far more than that of the average person.

Lets take this offline, but a couple of quick points.
1. Having family supports much quicker societal integration. There's economic value there. Plus, it creates an easier transition for the applicant. Immigration is far harder and economic value for the country harder to realize if a new person takes time to find a footing in the country.

2. Let me give you a simple example re: age.
A 37 year old likely has 1-2 kids more of school going age compared to an average Joe at 28. Each kid sucks up > CAD 20000 per year from the government just from public schooling and health benefits. This amount has to come from taxes. An additional CAD 20000 in taxes = the person needs to have an additional CAD 60000+ in annual income. Get it?

 

[enibeni23]

With the criterion’s I’ve mentioned, I am certain that the system doesn’t work as they intended it to work. How is it skill based immigration if someone has a higher CRS just because they have a sibling in Canada?

I think you misunderstood me, I meant to compare a highly skilled 37 year old with an average 30 year old (because the latter has a higher CRS score). In your example you are comparing two average Joe’s.

A person who is highly skilled will always make more than an average person and even though he is 9 years behind, his contributions to the system will be far more than that of the average person.

Forgive my impertinence for tagging into your conversation. IMHO and from what I have read (albeit very limited in scope), the metric you are evaluating has to do more than fiscal contributions, I think it has to do with adaptability as well. The psychometric consensus is that its easier for a younger person to acclimatize and assimilate into a new environment and also the younger the person is, there is a higher probability and impetus for them to have children and raise them in Canada. Obviously, there will always be exceptions to the rule, I know people who had children in their 40's and also know people in their 20's who chose to not to acclimatize because of ethnocentric perceptions. But the general idea is to bring a younger person, young families to Canada to not just solve the immediate human resource needs but long term sustainability

 

[Andas2910]

Hi
I need urgent help

 

[nadal87]

Forgive my impertinence for tagging into your conversation. IMHO and from what I have read (albeit very limited in scope), the metric you are evaluating has to do more than fiscal contributions, I think it has to do with adaptability as well. The psychometric consensus is that its easier for a younger person to acclimatize and assimilate into a new environment and also the younger the person is, there is a higher probability and impetus for them to have children and raise them in Canada. Obviously, there will always be exceptions to the rule, I know people who had children in their 40's and also know people in their 20's who chose to not to acclimatize because of ethnocentric perceptions. But the general idea is to bring a younger person, young families to Canada to not just solve the immediate human resource needs but long term sustainability

The metric is very well in the frame of the topic of economic immigration. They want skilled immigrants due to economic reasons. Don’t they?

And whose consensus would that be? AFAIK children under 10 are highly adaptable and can learn new language and cultures rather quickly. We can go back and forth with counter arguments, where you say the younger the better and I would give you reasons as to why that’s not always the case.

I guess it’s the case of “To each, their own”.

 

[Lazybug]

Hi
I need urgent help

Maybe you could specify what help you would need? Only then someone can help you.

 

[James_bk_fun]

Everyone here talking blindly about ITAs (numbers, trends) and potential implication on immigration targets come across as hugely uninformed and completely unaware of how organizations work.

Remember that Canadian immigration programs have a larger mandate to achieve - to attract and retain the most talented individuals in the world - and - to maintain Canada's relatively high standards of living and image as a nation of immigrants.
This objective is more important than an immigration target which represents sub 1% fraction of Canadian population.

The immigration agency also has far more info than any of us. If there are indications that individuals below a certain threshold are not likely to improve overall quality of life for the remaining Canadians, they will not be invited - at least not in the Express entry system. There are other avenues for those people. For now, through EE, the CRS score is highly correlated with how Canada measures individuals.

In light of this - if I headed the immigration agency - I would look through data and cleverly manage different draws to ensure CRS stays up and trends higher year over year while staying close to immigration targets.
That's exactly whats happening today.

How does this impact an applicant?
It should bode well that there's a push towards higher scores. Improves chances of Canadian standards being maintained or enhanced.
Don't try to predict when the score will fall. Assume there will be a constant push up with relatively fewer instances of big drops. Focus on getting your maximum score.
Don't push back on the immigration agency or their methods or how stressful the process is. They don't need to have your best interests at heart. That's your country's job. The Canadian agency needs to have a Canadian civilian's interest foremost. They should adjust the program and keep pushing the it towards better talent.
Finally, being an immigrant myself (right now in the US), I can tell you that the Express Entry system is currently the world's most transparent system - this is the best there is. Just look at how other countries manage this process and you'll see that Canada is doing a great job - not just for themselves, but this system truly is the most friendly for any applicant.

TLDR - Stop whining and calculating. Just push towards the best you can be and show that you deserve the ITA.

Not really sure why you’d bother coming on to a forum where people are encouraging each other and being hopeful about their futures just to criticise and lecture on what immigration agencies may or may not think without knowing any better than anyone else.

But anyway, happy weekend to you too!

 

[Ilyushin76]

Everyone here talking blindly about ITAs (numbers, trends) and potential implication on immigration targets come across as hugely uninformed and completely unaware of how organizations work.

Remember that Canadian immigration programs have a larger mandate to achieve - to attract and retain the most talented individuals in the world - and - to maintain Canada's relatively high standards of living and image as a nation of immigrants.
This objective is more important than an immigration target which represents sub 1% fraction of Canadian population.

The immigration agency also has far more info than any of us. If there are indications that individuals below a certain threshold are not likely to improve overall quality of life for the remaining Canadians, they will not be invited - at least not in the Express entry system. There are other avenues for those people. For now, through EE, the CRS score is highly correlated with how Canada measures individuals.

In light of this - if I headed the immigration agency - I would look through data and cleverly manage different draws to ensure CRS stays up and trends higher year over year while staying close to immigration targets.
That's exactly whats happening today.

How does this impact an applicant?
It should bode well that there's a push towards higher scores. Improves chances of Canadian standards being maintained or enhanced.
Don't try to predict when the score will fall. Assume there will be a constant push up with relatively fewer instances of big drops. Focus on getting your maximum score.
Don't push back on the immigration agency or their methods or how stressful the process is. They don't need to have your best interests at heart. That's your country's job. The Canadian agency needs to have a Canadian civilian's interest foremost. They should adjust the program and keep pushing the it towards better talent.
Finally, being an immigrant myself (right now in the US), I can tell you that the Express Entry system is currently the world's most transparent system - this is the best there is. Just look at how other countries manage this process and you'll see that Canada is doing a great job - not just for themselves, but this system truly is the most friendly for any applicant.

TLDR - Stop whining and calculating. Just push towards the best you can be and show that you deserve the ITA.

Enlighten the rest of the forum how a 30 plus candidate with the highest degree and ielts percentile would be able to pull this amazing feat and not worry? Oh yeah worrying for us, whining for you. Sorry

 

[nadal87]

Lets take this offline, but a couple of quick points.
1. Having family supports much quicker societal integration. There's economic value there. Plus, it creates an easier transition for the applicant. Immigration is far harder and economic value for the country harder to realize if a new person takes time to find a footing in the country.

2. Let me give you a simple example re: age.
A 37 year old likely has 1-2 kids more of school going age compared to an average Joe at 28. Each kid sucks up > CAD 20000 per year from the government just from public schooling and health benefits. This amount has to come from taxes. An additional CAD 20000 in taxes = the person needs to have an additional CAD 60000+ in annual income. Get it?

1. Merely indicating that you have a blood relative there doesn't ensure societal integration, because:
a. A person can land in a different province altogether, even though they claimed points for a sibling who lives in a different province, this guarantees that this person would not receive any help from their relative who is already there.
b. A majority of these siblings might themselves be new to this country considering the fact that the express entry program has been into its existence only since 2015, they themselves might not be strongly footed in that new country.

2. That is what I meant. A highly skilled immigrant should ideally be making that kind of money which should help him pay more taxes than the average Joe, his higher salary should also help reduce the tax burden of a common citizen as he pays most of that 20k out of his pocket. On the flip-side, when the average Joe turns 37 and has kids, he would be paying a fraction of what he receives due to his assumed lower income.

 

[enibeni23]

The metric is very well in the frame of the topic of economic immigration. They want skilled immigrants due to economic reasons. Don’t they?

And whose consensus would that be? AFAIK children under 10 are highly adaptable and can learn new language and cultures rather quickly. We can go back and forth with counter arguments, where you say the younger the better and I would give you reasons as to why that’s not always the case.

I guess it’s the case of “To each, their own”.

I agree that economic incentives are a significant reason, but I don't think it's the only impetus which matters. Someone may have gotten ill-gotten gains and they won't be able to immigrate to Canada using that resource right? The checks and balances system definitely sways towards prosperity, however, it does account for other aspects as well. Again, I agree with you, there is no one size fits all answer.

Social scientists, anthropologists, development economists, human rights experts, and immigration experts contribute to developing consensus and developing frameworks on building immigration metrics. I think degrading people into machines of labor and economic producers is probably not your intention as well, that's the reason why I mentioned an inclusive and dynamic pov.

 

[thrwy2019]

Everyone here talking blindly about ITAs (numbers, trends) and potential implication on immigration targets come across as hugely uninformed and completely unaware of how organizations work.

Remember that Canadian immigration programs have a larger mandate to achieve - to attract and retain the most talented individuals in the world - and - to maintain Canada's relatively high standards of living and image as a nation of immigrants.
This objective is more important than an immigration target which represents sub 1% fraction of Canadian population.

The immigration agency also has far more info than any of us. If there are indications that individuals below a certain threshold are not likely to improve overall quality of life for the remaining Canadians, they will not be invited - at least not in the Express entry system. There are other avenues for those people. For now, through EE, the CRS score is highly correlated with how Canada measures individuals.

In light of this - if I headed the immigration agency - I would look through data and cleverly manage different draws to ensure CRS stays up and trends higher year over year while staying close to immigration targets.
That's exactly whats happening today.

How does this impact an applicant?
It should bode well that there's a push towards higher scores. Improves chances of Canadian standards being maintained or enhanced.
Don't try to predict when the score will fall. Assume there will be a constant push up with relatively fewer instances of big drops. Focus on getting your maximum score.
Don't push back on the immigration agency or their methods or how stressful the process is. They don't need to have your best interests at heart. That's your country's job. The Canadian agency needs to have a Canadian civilian's interest foremost. They should adjust the program and keep pushing the it towards better talent.
Finally, being an immigrant myself (right now in the US), I can tell you that the Express Entry system is currently the world's most transparent system - this is the best there is. Just look at how other countries manage this process and you'll see that Canada is doing a great job - not just for themselves, but this system truly is the most friendly for any applicant.

TLDR - Stop whining and calculating. Just push towards the best you can be and show that you deserve the ITA.

Thank you. Literally just created an account to highlight this. The sheer amount of entitlement on this forum is hilarious. It isn't IRCC's responsibility to care about your feelings. I am also not making the cutoff yet, and all that means is that I need to make myself a better candidate. Or I could keep complaining and do nothing to better my score. One will likely work better, take a guess which one that is.