RA/TA experience in Canada and CRS score calculation

[oyounis]

Hi all .. I have 2 years and 10 months foreign work experience as a civil engineer (outside of Canada). I am currently working part-time as a TA/RA while finishing my PhD degree in Canada. My question is: if I accumulated an equivalent of 2 months of full time work experience as an RA/TA (another NOC).. Can I claim the whole 50 points for foreign work experience ?

 

[oyounis]

No, because foreign work experience and Canadian work experience are separate categories in the Express Entry CRS. You cannot count Canadian work experience to be part of foreign work experience.

But it can't be counted towards a Canadian experience either. So it's basically useless?!

 

[oyounis]

For CRS points, yes. You need at least 1 year of Canadian experience to get any points. Also, it is doubtful that it would count at all for Canadian experience, because Canadian experience that was obtained as a full-time student is explicitly excluded. Depends on your exact circumstances though. But this is a moot point anyways because anything less than 1 year won't help you.

It may not be completely useless if you would like to qualify for FSW though. FSW has a points grid also, and you need to score at least 67 points. When it comes to these points, Canadian and foreign work experience can both be used, and work experience during full time studies is not excluded.

Isn't FSW is the federal skilled worker (express entry)? .. Are they different?

 

[oyounis]

Yes, that is correct.

FSW is one of the three programs managed through the Express Entry system. The other two are the Canadian Experience Class (CEC) and the Federal Skilled Trades (FST) program.

To apply for any of these two programs, there are two steps:

1) You must meet the minimum entry criteria for (at least) one of the three programs (this will allow you to create an EE profile)

2) You must then have enough CRS points to receive an Invitation to Apply (ITA). If you do, you are allowed to apply for the program you were invited for (FSW, CEC or FST).

CRS points are only relevant for step 2. Your Canadian experience won't help you for this, as discussed.

But I thought it might help your for step 1. Suggest you read about the minimum criteria for FSW and the FSW selection grid:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/federal-skilled-workers.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/federal-skilled-workers/six-selection-factors-federal-skilled-workers.html

The second link explains the FSW selection factors. Refer to heading "work experience".

Unfortunately I just realized / remembered that you would get the same amount of points for both 2 and 3 years of work experience, so unless you have any additional work experience in the last 10 years, those 2 months of Canadian experience you were talking about indeed seem to be of no use to you.

yeahI know all that. Right now I applied for the FSW and as it stands my score is 453 because my work experience is less than 3 years (only 2 months short). Anything more than a year and less than 3 is rewarded 25 points only while anything more than 3 is rewarded 50 points. My question was whether I could claim any work I've done in Canada as a foreign work experience since I am on a study permit. I think it doesn't because it didn't add any points to my score when I added it.

It just sounds so nonsensical to me that doing the exact same job somewhere else will be counted as work experience while in Canada because I'm on a study permit I can't even claim it as a foreign work experience let alone a Canadian work experience (for CEC) !!

 

[oyounis]

Yes, I know what your question was. As I have already mentioned, your Canadian work experience does not give you any additional CRS points.
You've probably already seen this, but this link explains in detail how CRS points are calculated, and you will see that foreign and Canadian work experience are treated differently and separately.

The rationale behind this is that Canadian work experience is considered much more beneficial for the applicant to be able to establish themselves in Canada.

My further explanations were just to point out that under certain circumstances your Canadian work experience may have been useful. I didn't know that you had already created an Express Entry profile, which implies that you already know that you meet the MEC of FSW.

I understand... Thank you so much for your replies .. I appreciate it

 

[oyounis]

Yes, I know what your question was. As I have already mentioned, your Canadian work experience does not give you any additional CRS points.
You've probably already seen this, but this link explains in detail how CRS points are calculated, and you will see that foreign and Canadian work experience are treated differently and separately.

The rationale behind this is that Canadian work experience is considered much more beneficial for the applicant to be able to establish themselves in Canada.

My further explanations were just to point out that under certain circumstances your Canadian work experience may have been useful. I didn't know that you had already created an Express Entry profile, which implies that you already know that you meet the MEC of FSW.

I have another question... What if I worked remotely as a consultant or freelancer for a company outside of Canada (lets say India or Egypt) while I am on a study permit in Canada ... Can I claim this work experience as a foreign work experience for FSW ?

 

[oyounis]

No, it won't count as foreign work experience.

In the ministerial instructions, foreign work experience is defined as

"work experience that (a) is acquired by a foreign national outside Canada"
See 25 (1) (a) - https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/ra-ta-experience-in-canada-and-crs-score-calculation.686137/#post-8599315

But you are inside Canada.

Another test they will likely apply is where your employer is based. In your example, you would be self-employed - which literally means you employing yourself. But you are based in Canada, not in Egypt or India. If you instead worked for a big consulting company in say, Toronto, and you had a client in India, that would not be classified as foreign work experience either.

Think of the opposite as well - they would never allow someone who does consulting work for a Canadian client from India to count that as Canadian work experience.

In summary, this arrangement would not count as foreign work experience, but you also couldn't include it as Canadian work experience because self-employed work does not count for Canadian work experience.

I understand where you're coming from. But isn't it possible that the phrase "work experience that (a) is acquired by a foreign national outside Canada" would be interpreted as a foreign national working for an employer outside of Canada.

Also lets say I'm employed by this company for a short term position that doesn't necessarily need me to be physically there (I mean all of us are working from home for a while now). Would that be considered self employment given that the employer will be providing a reference letter with my job duties and all relevant information.