Question about physical presence

[noirlife]

Hello,
I wanted to ask about the physical presence and citizenship eligibility. I have been in Canada since 2004 as a student. I began working and became a PR is Jan-2012. I left for the US for about 15 months to study. During that time I filed taxes in Canada, had bank accounts here and also had a government loan from Canada. I always came back during vacation to work and as soon as i graduated I came back to work. I was wondering if it is possible for me to apply for citizenship now. I have met the basic residency requirement and I have maintained ties to Canada throughout including filing taxes for about 7 years now and having government loans etc.
I want to apply now as the rules are becoming a lot tougher including mandatory physical residence and I'll have to wait 4 more years to apply.
Thank you for your insights and help !

 

[scylla]

You'll be refused if you only meet basic residency (doesn't matter that you paid taxes or had a bank account). You need to meet physical residency requirements (1095 days in the last four years) to be approved.

So the short answer is no.

 

[manianz47]

I think the 3 years (out of 4 years) physical presence is still required.
Put your dates in the Residence Calculator and check

 

[HighFive]

noirlife, we definitely CAN apply with less than 3 years out of physical presence in Canada and residency calculator tells you about it.
But your application will go thru judge and RQ, you have to be ready for that.

Apply this week, don't waste your time. With new "4/6" rule you will need to be physically present in Canada 186 days, each of 4 years (basic residency).
Good luck to you!

 

[noirlife]

Thanks a lot everyone for your insights !

 

[eileenf]

noirlife, we definitely CAN apply with less than 3 years out of physical presence in Canada and residency calculator tells you about it.
But your application will go thru judge and RQ, you have to be ready for that.

You don't mention how many days you have accumulated, but HighFive is right that your case will have to go through the RQ and judge process if you are short of physical presence (1095). RQ means your process will probably take around 3+ years (though there is much variation) while the wait for the judge adds another year or more. So, maybe 5 years? Maybe less...No one knows. You will need to maintain your PR status during this period. If your PR lapses, your application will be denied.

It used to be that judges would generally approve anyone with 900 days or more of PP, but that is no longer the case.

Good luck with your decisions and keep us posted. I would also encourage you to discuss your case with a reputable lawyer.

 

[Msafiri]

noirlife,

To give you a constructive response are you ok to provide the following with today as a reference point (can be April to make the math easier):

1. How many days of physical presence in Canada do you have in the 4 years prior i.e. back to April 2010.

2. How many days of physical presence in Canada do you have since landing as a PR in Jan 2012

3. How many days of physical presence in Canada do you have in the 2 years prior to landing.

4. Do you have evidence of all your (or at least most) US travels in the way of passport stamps.

5. Do you have evidence of all your (or at least most) Canadian entries in the way of passport stamps.

6. As per 4/5 for travel to any other 3rd country including back home.

 

[noirlife]

Thanks a lot msafiri for your help. Below are my answers, assuming April 2013

1. 4 years prior i.e. from April 2010, I have approx 1030 days of physical presence
2. Since PR in April 2012 I have 300 days physical presence
3. 2 years prior to landing ( in April 2012) I have 730 days i.e. I was in Canada throughout that period
4. Yes all my travel to US is documented
5. All my entries are stamped
6. I have not traveled anywhere except US and Canada in the past 4 years

Thanks again for your advise

 

[eileenf]

So, it looks like you'd be applying with 665+/- days, since pre-PR time maxes out at 365 days (2 years pre-PR time is counted as only 1 year of physical presence).

Because this is so far short of the 1095 days, your case would be a real long shot for approval. 900 days, maybe. 1000 days, maybe/probably. But with less than 700 suggests not only would the outcome pretty likely be negative, but the process itself would be extremely frustrating, long and anxiety-producing. You will have to go before a judge. You would be well advised to hire a lawyer. Even if the judge approved you, the CIC would likely appeal. Then you would really need a lawyer. It could shape up to be a 5 year process. Even if you did get citizenship in the end, it would probably be faster to have apply when you have fully met the residence qualification.

 

[HighFive]

Folks, lets try to dont scary noirlife with all our comments about RQ, judge, years of wait time, need to hire a lawyer, etc. etc.
I personally know one guy who applied in October 2011 with less than 700 days of physical presence and got his passport in November last year, so 2 year & 1 month wait time. Never hired a lawyer, all paperwork done by himself. But he had a house, paid taxes in Canada, 2 Canadian born kids, wife who never left Canada for 3 years after landing as PR and constant work on rotations in Macae, Brazil for past 3.5 years.

And also we need to consider that recently they are speeding up whole processing system in CIC, so he might get his passport even in less than 2 years time. Who knows, ehh.

 

[eileenf]

None of us can predict the future, and while I personally try to be pretty clear about my lack of predictive powers when responding to posts, I don't think it's a stretch to say that the odds are not good for anyone who applies with less than 700 days. It's not about fear-mongering (I know that this process can be stressful enough without us wigging each other out for no good reason!). It's about trying to get a sense of which way the odds tilt for different scenarios in order to make informed decisions.

That said, I would be very interested to hear more details about the case of your acquaintance including a more detailed timeline, what office, what their experience with the judge was like, what was the deciding factors used by the judge to employ the Koo test (centralized mode of existence), etc.

 

[chakrab]

Folks, lets try to dont scary noirlife with all our comments about RQ, judge, years of wait time, need to hire a lawyer, etc. etc.
I personally know one guy who applied in October 2011 with less than 700 days of physical presence and got his passport in November last year, so 2 year & 1 month wait time. Never hired a lawyer, all paperwork done by himself. But he had a house, paid taxes in Canada, 2 Canadian born kids, wife who never left Canada for 3 years after landing as PR and constant work on rotations in Macae, Brazil for past 3.5 years.

And also we need to consider that recently they are speeding up whole processing system in CIC, so he might get his passport even in less than 2 years time. Who knows, ehh.

If one is working for a Canadian company even outside Canada, then that time can be used for residency in extreme cases. so this guy's case may be an odd one and not a good example for everyone.

 

[keesio]

If one is working for a Canadian company even outside Canada, then that time can be used for residency in extreme cases. so this guy's case may be an odd one and not a good example for everyone.

It has to be a Canadian company that transferred the person abroad. The rules on this is strict. Usually the only way it works is if the person worked in a foreign office for the Canadian government.

BUt yeah, that guy sounds like an exception, not the standard. under 700 days is 99.999% chance of triggering an RQ. many people these days get an RQ for any days under 1095.

 

[eileenf]

I recommend checking out page 13-15 (sections 5.8-5.11) of CIC's Citizenship Policy manual (note: PDF): www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/cp/cp05-eng.pdf
It can give an idea of how residence shortfall cases are processed and the likelihood of encountering significant challenges and the likelihood of a positive outcome.

I particularly want to point out:
"5.10. C - Extensive absences - majority rule
If you determine that all the absences of the applicant fall within the allowable exceptions, you
must then assess if the applicant was outside of Canada, in total, for a longer period of time than
he or she was in Canada.

Given that the purpose of the residence requirement is to ensure that the applicant for citizenship
can become familiar with Canada and become integrated into Canadian society, it follows that the
longer the absences of the applicant, the more difficult it will be for the Minister to be convinced
that the applicant meets the residence requirement. This is true even if the reasons for the
absences seem to fall entirely within the exceptional circumstances described above."

 

[HighFive]

Here are some additional info about this guy particular case for you guys, as you are interested.
He was not working for Canadian company (I know that time spent outside Canada on the days working for Canadian company counted as 2 for 1, but that was not his case), he still works for American company with headquarters in Houston on international assignment with rotational contract, so he spends exactly the same time in Canada and the same time on the work location minus traveling days. His wife got no RQ, smooth process, even though she was not working even one day in Canada those 3 years, just taking care of kids at home.
That's all I know about it, he lives in Richmond hill and if you want more specific info I would need to call him.