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PRTD from USA

kathysrazor

Star Member
Oct 25, 2020
161
32
And you think the reason border officials questioned you about Residency Obligation compliance was an expired PR card?
Yep, and I've done plenty of testing to prove it. I have way more than enough days, and with exit records now shared it's easy to prove.

I suppose you are not the first and will not be the last person to confuse what the law allows with what it intends, or to otherwise intentionally exploit it.

But for other PRs here, looking for guidance and information about how things work . . . that is NOT the way to go.
I care about the letter of the law, because the letter of the law is what I'm held to. I "play games" in part so that I have the data to help other immigrants know how things work.

How many PRs have been outside their residency obligation and hoped to come back in unreported, for example? Right here in this forum? They are gambling with their status, and sometimes it's useful to know the kinds of things that will get people flagged.

Since am well within my residency obligation, and cross the border regularly, I make a good test case for figuring out statistically what's most likely to get people flagged. When I get flagged, that's valuable data, and I don't have to worry about a 44(1) inadmissibility report being filed. The people who most want to know what to do to get in compliance with their PR obligation do.

As for being questioned on my 11:55 to 12:05 trips, you might be surprised to find out that it actually got me less scrutiny than most of the things I've done at the border. When they asked me why I was crossing the border, my answer was generally "to comply with my residency obligation". People who are making an active effort to maintain their residency are not the kind of people it's productive to haul into secondary and go through all their entry and exit records. After a few weeks of it, they know exactly who I am and what I'm doing, and get waved through without issue.

And, even if they do, partial days count. If I have multiple entry and exit records every single day, it's impossible for me to be in violation of my residency obligation. People who travel less often were the ones more concerning to the border officers, because of the potential to be in violation.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
. . . to help other immigrants know how things work.
Good. Me too.

And I am not at all surprised a pattern of regularly crossing the border (even by someone playing games) creates an obvious record likely to reduce border officials' concerns about RO compliance (assuming, of course, the pattern is consistent with RO compliance), and I'd suggest this is likely true EVEN if the PR is not carrying any PR card let alone carrying an expired PR card. Makes perfect sense to me.

Nonetheless, I disagree with a number of things in your post, well, a lot of things, ranging from your characterization of "the letter of the law" (at least a bit afield of how things actually work) to what can be learned from any particular individual's experiences let alone from how things go for a single individual who is playing games and who otherwise has many factors (such as numerous just before and after midnight crossings) not commonly shared by other PRs. So, for example, I obviously continue to disagree with drawing any definite conclusions about how things will LIKELY work, let alone will for sure work, for someone else, anyone else, based on your personal border crossing experiences, with or without a currently valid PR card.

If you are really interested in why I disagree, say so and I will explain (perhaps I should say I will probably explain . . . I am old, getting tired, and could well get too tired any day . . . but for now, not too tired, I probably will continue to offer contributions).

But it is not likely pursuing that discussion further will help, recognizing that both of us are more interested in identifying and sharing what works (which I assume means what works as best we can sort out what actually works, for some, for many, for most, as the case may be, and otherwise recognize ranges of what are possible outcomes and what factors will influence how it goes).

If in responding to some other inquiry we bump into conflicting views about something, we can focus on what we know about that particular issue, and do our mutual best to sort it out.

Likewise here I suppose. If there is a particular proposition about what most PRs will encounter, or are likely to encounter, that you think needs more attention in this topic, that too we can do our mutual best to sort out how things are going to, or are at least likely to work for others.

Yep, and I've done plenty of testing to prove it. I have way more than enough days, and with exit records now shared it's easy to prove.



I care about the letter of the law, because the letter of the law is what I'm held to. I "play games" in part so that I have the data to help other immigrants know how things work.

How many PRs have been outside their residency obligation and hoped to come back in unreported, for example? Right here in this forum? They are gambling with their status, and sometimes it's useful to know the kinds of things that will get people flagged.

Since am well within my residency obligation, and cross the border regularly, I make a good test case for figuring out statistically what's most likely to get people flagged. When I get flagged, that's valuable data, and I don't have to worry about a 44(1) inadmissibility report being filed. The people who most want to know what to do to get in compliance with their PR obligation do.

As for being questioned on my 11:55 to 12:05 trips, you might be surprised to find out that it actually got me less scrutiny than most of the things I've done at the border. When they asked me why I was crossing the border, my answer was generally "to comply with my residency obligation". People who are making an active effort to maintain their residency are not the kind of people it's productive to haul into secondary and go through all their entry and exit records. After a few weeks of it, they know exactly who I am and what I'm doing, and get waved through without issue.

And, even if they do, partial days count. If I have multiple entry and exit records every single day, it's impossible for me to be in violation of my residency obligation. People who travel less often were the ones more concerning to the border officers, because of the potential to be in violation.
 

kansha

Full Member
Mar 5, 2013
20
3
Good. Me too.

And I am not at all surprised a pattern of regularly crossing the border (even by someone playing games) creates an obvious record likely to reduce border officials' concerns about RO compliance (assuming, of course, the pattern is consistent with RO compliance), and I'd suggest this is likely true EVEN if the PR is not carrying any PR card let alone carrying an expired PR card. Makes perfect sense to me.

Nonetheless, I disagree with a number of things in your post, well, a lot of things, ranging from your characterization of "the letter of the law" (at least a bit afield of how things actually work) to what can be learned from any particular individual's experiences let alone from how things go for a single individual who is playing games and who otherwise has many factors (such as numerous just before and after midnight crossings) not commonly shared by other PRs. So, for example, I obviously continue to disagree with drawing any definite conclusions about how things will LIKELY work, let alone will for sure work, for someone else, anyone else, based on your personal border crossing experiences, with or without a currently valid PR card.

If you are really interested in why I disagree, say so and I will explain (perhaps I should say I will probably explain . . . I am old, getting tired, and could well get too tired any day . . . but for now, not too tired, I probably will continue to offer contributions).

But it is not likely pursuing that discussion further will help, recognizing that both of us are more interested in identifying and sharing what works (which I assume means what works as best we can sort out what actually works, for some, for many, for most, as the case may be, and otherwise recognize ranges of what are possible outcomes and what factors will influence how it goes).

If in responding to some other inquiry we bump into conflicting views about something, we can focus on what we know about that particular issue, and do our mutual best to sort it out.

Likewise here I suppose. If there is a particular proposition about what most PRs will encounter, or are likely to encounter, that you think needs more attention in this topic, that too we can do our mutual best to sort out how things are going to, or are at least likely to work for others.
Hi Dpenabill,

Apologies in advance if you have already explained this, but I'm trying to figure out if my wife, a US citizen and has a Canadian PR, can fly into Canada from US without a PRTD if her PR card had just expired. She has met her Canadian PR obligations as she lives with me (Canadian citizen) in the US. We have also applied for the PRTD (via email) already but have not heard back.

Technically speaking, she can just fly into Canada using her US passport all the way through without getting any questions. Do you have any reference or context around this situation?
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,247
8,862
Technically speaking, she can just fly into Canada using her US passport all the way through without getting any questions. Do you have any reference or context around this situation?
CBSA does not care, they will let her into Canada. It's a question of whether the airline will let her on the plane. Ask the airline, and get it in writing (or refundable ticket). It's currently confused somewhat by covid regulations.

If you want to know what is easier, fly to a border town and cross the land border.
 

kansha

Full Member
Mar 5, 2013
20
3
CBSA does not care, they will let her into Canada. It's a question of whether the airline will let her on the plane. Ask the airline, and get it in writing (or refundable ticket). It's currently confused somewhat by covid regulations.

If you want to know what is easier, fly to a border town and cross the land border.
I may be missing something, I thought US citizen can enter Canada without justifying essential reasons as long as they are fully vaccinated? https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/wizard-start

If CBSA doesn't care, then can I assume my wife can fly into Canada without a PRTD? Since airline will just check to see if she is fully vaccinated and if she has the right type of visas to enter Canada (US citizen doesn't need a visa). Feels like I'm over simplifying the process.

We will have young kids with us so not as ideal to fly/cross land border
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Hi Dpenabill,

Apologies in advance if you have already explained this, but I'm trying to figure out if my wife, a US citizen and has a Canadian PR, can fly into Canada from US without a PRTD if her PR card had just expired. She has met her Canadian PR obligations as she lives with me (Canadian citizen) in the US. We have also applied for the PRTD (via email) already but have not heard back.

Technically speaking, she can just fly into Canada using her US passport all the way through without getting any questions. Do you have any reference or context around this situation?
I think @armoured has covered things.

I have not tried to keep up with covid-related travel restrictions, so I cannot offer much at all in regards to what impact that has.

Generally, American citizens who are Canadian PRs without a valid PR card do not need a PR Travel Document to board a flight to Canada. U.S. passport suffices.

For purposes of screening by border control officials, at the Port-of-Entry, Canadian PRs without a valid PR card do not need a PR Travel Document to gain entry into Canada.

But of course there is a wide range of questions border officials can ask travelers, including Canadian citizens returning to Canada, so no, no one can travel to Canada from abroad, the U.S. or elsewhere, with a guarantee they will not be getting any questions.