PRTD APPLICATION H & C grounds

[jakklondon]

Not sure about the price of medication has anything to do with this. Most moving to Canada don’t have permanent status in the US.

As I indicated there are payment plans and there can be some adjustments based on income but people sign agreements to pay for decades a bit at a time. The hospitals do have budgets so at a certain point they are unable to provide free services.

If you actually read my post I stated that lifesaving treatment or emergency treatment will not be refused. There was an example where a quadriplegic (could have been paraplegic) man was refused rehab because he had such a large bill at the spinal cord hospital. So people’s definition of lifesaving treatment may be different.

We can waste a lot of time discussing this. I am aware of what you are describing, we have similar system of providing ER care to uninsured/anyone in the US, and most (if not all) non-emergency services are ceased if one is uninsured and unable to pay.

PR status does not entitle to you to health coverage. There are even RO to receive healthcare.

Wait a minute, aren't PRs entitled to the same HC services as the native Canadians? We are not talking about qualifying periods ( in Ontario , for instance, you have to live couple of months or three months before getting health card, which the article already discusses. It was introduced in 1994, to prevent "medical tourism", among other things). We are talking about a PR with valid status, who is in Canada and has met the provincial requirement. Not having PR card has nothing to do with existence of PR status. Is it consistent with law to deny health coverage to someone who qualifies for it, by virtue of being PR and meeting provincial requirement on residence???

 

[armoured]

Wait a minute, aren't PRs entitled to the same HC services as the native Canadians? We are not talking about qualifying periods

Qualifying periods apply to Canadian citizens as well.

We are talking about a PR with valid status, who is in Canada and has met the provincial requirement. Not having PR card has nothing to do with existence of PR status. Is it consistent with law to deny health coverage to someone who qualifies for it, by virtue of being PR and meeting provincial requirement on residence???

I actually agree on this point. Note that this does NOT apply to all provinces, each province has their own administrative approach - but since it seems to be an issue in both Ontario and BC, where a large proportion of immigrants end up, it is significant.

It's really a collision between the two levels of government. Provinces require some documentation an immigrant is a PR (fair enough) - but there's no document that reliably demonstrates a PR still has PR status. Conversely the feds do not provide such a document - although traditionally a valid PR card has been seen as the best prima facie evidence that the PR status is still valid (since revocation of PR status is not that common and five year period of validity, well, close enough).

In other words the provinces really should not be using valid PR card as required documentation - but the feds haven't provided a substitute.

I do not know the legal side of this - whether a PR without-a-card would succeed in court - but certainly worth trying, for PRs that can stomach the legal expense and likely timeframe. Note though that of necessity, this could only be a suit against the provincial governments - and quite possibly with limited applicability in other provinces (may not be useful precedent in other provinces).

In other words, legally, this is not really a federal responsibility. (A lawyer who knows details of law might find a way to get the govt of Canada on the docket, though).

What would be far easier and more logical would be for feds and provinces concerned to come up with a way for feds to (for example) share which PR statuses (by UCI and/or name DOB) have been revoked - since at root it is really only the cases of PRs who have lost PR status that are the issue. There may be privacy issues but govts deal with that type of issue all the time, they sign various protocols on how to deal with that.

Unfortunately though: this specific issue - of eg PRs who have returned and cannot renew PR card until back in compliance - likely concerns a fairly small number of individuals a year - perhaps a couple thousand at any given time (just a guess on my part).

It comes up prominently in this particular forum because that's what this forum is about, issues that arise because of residency obligation. Ask a forum for left-handed lacrosse players how much of an issue the dearth of left-handed lacrosse sticks available is, it's going to be fairly high - but that's not going to translate into an equally high level of attention from the political classes.

And there will be some who claim that this 'policy' serves as a disincentive to return when not in compliance; that is a) clearly just accidental and not intentional, because it's implemented only in some provinces (or is the 'policy' to push such individuals to move to different provinces instead?); b) fundamentally at odds with the basic idea of health care and the "residency non-compliance is not the same as illegal presence" which undergirds the RO framework.

It's mostly just a stupid, unintentional conflict of administrative systems.

 

[Antares923yt]

Yes you can enter while going through the appeal process. You will need to be prepared to leave if denied your appeal. Without a valid PR card you may not be able to access domestic tuition. It will be dependent on the school.

Hello Canuck 78, I entered to a university that told me that I will be able to access domestic tuition without a valid PR. IF my prtd is denied, I want to know which are the required steps to enter to Canada through an appeal. What do i have to show in the border?

 

[jakklondon]

Hello Canuck 78, I entered to a university that told me that I will be able to access domestic tuition without a valid PR. IF my prtd is denied, I want to know which are the required steps to enter to Canada through an appeal. What do i have to show in the border?

There is no "special path" to appeal. You just return to Canada as PR. If border guard doesn't like you or has a bad day, he will grill you, find out you are in breach of RO and report you. Once reported, you can appeal (within 30 days). It's also possible that you will not be reported (i.e. you look like one of the protected minorities and border officer is too scared of being accused of discrimination against placated and protected class of individual; or he just likes you for what you look like and decides to waive you in and etc. ). In this case, you won't need to appeal anything, just arrive to Canada and don't leave for two years.

The problem you will likely encounter is if you get reported, appeal and loose the appeal as a matter of law (no grounds to stay in Canada as PR and overcome a charge of breach of RO). You will then receive order of deputation and must leave within 30 days or so. You should have plans what to do, including the school you will transfer to outside of Canada where you can continue your education without losing the credits earned at Canadian university.

 

[dpenabill]

Hello Canuck 78, I entered to a university that told me that I will be able to access domestic tuition without a valid PR. IF my prtd is denied, I want to know which are the required steps to enter to Canada through an appeal. What do i have to show in the border?

Caution: ignore ignoramuses, pithecanthropoids who have no clue what they are talking about.

If you apply for a PR Travel Document and it is denied, you have 60 days to file an appeal. If you were in Canada within a year previous to making the PR TD application, you can then apply for and will ordinarily be issued a special Travel Document allowing you to board a flight to Canada, to come to Canada pending the appeal.

You can make that application, for a special PR TD, even if you were not present at all in Canada in the previous year but it will likely be denied.

If you have status and means to travel via the U.S., you can alternatively do that and approach a Port-of-Entry on the U.S./Canada border where, as a PR you will be allowed into Canada. Of course you would need to do this either within the sixty days you have to file an appeal or while the appeal is still pending.

 

[canuck78]

There is no "special path" to appeal. You just return to Canada as PR. If border guard doesn't like you or has a bad day, he will grill you, find out you are in breach of RO and report you. Once reported, you can appeal (within 30 days). It's also possible that you will not be reported (i.e. you look like one of the protected minorities and border officer is too afraid of being accused of discrminaiton; or he just likes you for what you look like and decides to waive you in and etc. ). In this case, you won't need to appeal anything, just arrive to Canada and don't leave for two years.

The problem you will likely encounter is if you get reported, appeal and loose the appeal as a matter of law (no grounds to stay in Canada as PR and overcome a charge of breach of RO). You will then receive order of deportaiton and must leave within 30 days or so. You should have plans what to do, including the school you will transfer to outside of Canada where you can continue your education without losing the credits earned at Canadian university.

Agents reporting PRs for not meeting their RO has nothing about being in a bad mood or having a personal vendetta, the agents are doing their jobs. Monitoring to see that returning PRs are compliant with their ROs is part of their job responsibilities.

 

[jakklondon]

Agents reporting PRs for not meeting their RO has nothing about being in a bad mood or having a personal vendetta, the agents are doing their jobs. Monitoring to see that returning PRs are compliant with their ROs is part of their job responsibilities.

If they were doing their jobs, they would not be sending me to secondary inspection, wouldn't be rude without provocation and wouldn't be checking my "residency status" when I traveled to Canada as brand new resident (within 1st year of landing). There is no need to defend the scum that abuses and oversteps the limits of authority given to them to uphold the law. They are not given a badge to abuse and terrorize innocent individuals. Unless one is scum just like them and thinks it's OK to abuse and bully innocent border crossers if one wears a badge, there is no way to justify such behavior.
Also, if someone is overzealous about their job, they better stop human trafficking and illicit narcotics trafficking, why don't they go stop actual criminals?
Not even mentioning so called refugees from well known country, tens of thousands of which arrived recently without any kind of documents to prove their identity. Why not find, stop and thoroughly inspect those?

 

[armoured]

There is no need to defend the scum that abuses and oversteps the limits of authority given to them to uphold the law. They are not given a badge to abuse and terrorize innocent individuals. Unless one is scum just like them and thinks it's OK to abuse and bully innocent border crossers if one wears a badge, there is no way to justify such behavior.

I know you're unlikely to listen to this, but ... here goes.

This level of rage and anger and obsession about a country (or its border officials) that you do not live in, where you barely ever resided, when you claim to have moved on and settled comfortably in a different country, is not healthy.

Honestly, you need to get therapy of some kind, or spiritual assistance. Show these sentences of yours above to people you know and trust and ask them what they think.

Consider whether that range and anger and this obsession would be appropriate or healthy with respect to a former spouse - anyone would tell you to get professional help.

Unless what CBSA officers did crossed into outright criminal behaviour (criminal code, not 'rudeness') - in which case it should be reported to authorities - this is not healthy.

Write a complaint letter, get help, and move on.

 

[Antares923yt]

Caution: ignore ignoramuses, pithecanthropoids who have no clue what they are talking about.

If you apply for a PR Travel Document and it is denied, you have 60 days to file an appeal. If you were in Canada within a year previous to making the PR TD application, you can then apply for and will ordinarily be issued a special Travel Document allowing you to board a flight to Canada, to come to Canada pending the appeal.

You can make that application, for a special PR TD, even if you were not present at all in Canada in the previous year but it will likely be denied.

If you have status and means to travel via the U.S., you can alternatively do that and approach a Port-of-Entry on the U.S./Canada border where, as a PR you will be allowed into Canada. Of course you would need to do this either within the sixty days you have to file an appeal or while the appeal is still pending.

Hello, thanks for your answer. I am waiting for a response for the PRTD (retired as a Minor case) in my country. If my PRTD is denied, my plan is the following one: I make an appeal, I go to the USA and cross the border. I understand that I am allowed as a PR to live in Canada 2 years until my appeal is accepted or denied. I will be studying at a canadian university those 2 years. If my appeal is accepted I will continue studying as a PR. If not, I am thinking about applying to a student visa in order to finish my canadian studies. Is my plan possible and viable? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

 

[Antares923yt]

There is no "special path" to appeal. You just return to Canada as PR. If border guard doesn't like you or has a bad day, he will grill you, find out you are in breach of RO and report you. Once reported, you can appeal (within 30 days). It's also possible that you will not be reported (i.e. you look like one of the protected minorities and border officer is too scared of being accused of discrimination against placated and protected class of individual; or he just likes you for what you look like and decides to waive you in and etc. ). In this case, you won't need to appeal anything, just arrive to Canada and don't leave for two years.

The problem you will likely encounter is if you get reported, appeal and loose the appeal as a matter of law (no grounds to stay in Canada as PR and overcome a charge of breach of RO). You will then receive order of deputation and must leave within 30 days or so. You should have plans what to do, including the school you will transfer to outside of Canada where you can continue your education without losing the credits earned at Canadian university.

Hello, thanks for your answer. I am waiting for a response for the PRTD (retired as a Minor case) in my country. If my PRTD is denied, my plan is the following one: I make an appeal, I go to the USA and cross the border. I understand that I am allowed as a PR to live in Canada 2 years until my appeal is accepted or denied. I will be studying at a canadian university those 2 years. If my appeal is accepted I will continue studying as a PR. If not, I am thinking about applying to a student visa in order to finish my canadian studies. Is my plan possible and viable? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

 

[Copingwithlife]

I know you're unlikely to listen to this, but ... here goes.

This level of rage and anger and obsession about a country (or its border officials) that you do not live in, where you barely ever resided, when you claim to have moved on and settled comfortably in a different country, is not healthy.

Honestly, you need to get therapy of some kind, or spiritual assistance. Show these sentences of yours above to people you know and trust and ask them what they think.

Consider whether that range and anger and this obsession would be appropriate or healthy with respect to a former spouse - anyone would tell you to get professional help.

Unless what CBSA officers did crossed into outright criminal behaviour (criminal code, not 'rudeness') - in which case it should be reported to authorities - this is not healthy.

Write a complaint letter, get help, and move on.

Ditto.

I always keep in mind this person probably has a SO, work colleague's that have to deal with this anger every single bloody day .
To them…. God speed

 

[canuck78]

Hello, thanks for your answer. I am waiting for a response for the PRTD (retired as a Minor case) in my country. If my PRTD is denied, my plan is the following one: I make an appeal, I go to the USA and cross the border. I understand that I am allowed as a PR to live in Canada 2 years until my appeal is accepted or denied. I will be studying at a canadian university those 2 years. If my appeal is accepted I will continue studying as a PR. If not, I am thinking about applying to a student visa in order to finish my canadian studies. Is my plan possible and viable? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

Do you have a current US visa?

 

[Antares923yt]

Do you have a current US visa?

Yes, I have

 

[jakklondon]

Hello, thanks for your answer. I am waiting for a response for the PRTD (retired as a Minor case) in my country. If my PRTD is denied, my plan is the following one: I make an appeal, I go to the USA and cross the border. I understand that I am allowed as a PR to live in Canada 2 years until my appeal is accepted or denied. I will be studying at a canadian university those 2 years. If my appeal is accepted I will continue studying as a PR. If not, I am thinking about applying to a student visa in order to finish my canadian studies. Is my plan possible and viable? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

As an American I never needed PTRD to travel to Canada. I can either drive to the Canadian border or fly in commercial plane, no Canadian PR card needed for that. Therefore, my knowledge of how PRTD works is limited. From what I understand, you can apply for PRTD, and if denied (for lack of RO) the CIC will strip you of your PR status. Some people make PRTD application just to get rid of PR status. I also heard that under certain circumstances (if you weren't out of Canada for many years and lived there certain period of time before departing) it's possible to appeal denial of PRTD and still enter Canada. How it works I don't know, perhaps other members who know more about PRTD can give you a better insight. Just make sure that your PRTD application, if denied, doesn't result in immediate and irreversible loss of PR status. If it does, you won't be entitled to be admitted into Canada via US. Only PR's are entitled to admission.

If you could get into the US and drive to the border, you should have avoided applying for PRTD. As someone who currently holds PR status you knew you were entitled to be admitted into Canada, and once in Canada (even if reported at the border) you could stay there for a year or two, until your appeal was decided by IAD. I don't know if one can get a Canadian student visa and stay in Canada after order of deportation for RO violation becomes final. Not sure if applying for Canadian student visa can stay the deportation proceedings. It's a good question, to be addressed by people well versed on getting non-immigrant visas by former PRs who were in deportation proceedings and subjects to removal from Canada.

P.S. If you decide to return to Canada by land via US, beware of Orwellian Triple Hermetic Secret Worshippers, some are extremely rude and hostile towards certain categories of immigrants and treat RO violators worse than they would Pablo Escobar (especially if you don't look like and don't belong to one of the protected groups based on your gender/orientation, color, presumed ethnic and/or religious background and etc.). Some of them are even on this board, you can notice it by their ad hominems and reactions to anything critical said about unjustified abuse of power towards innocent border crossers.

 

[Antares923yt]

Do you have a current US visa?

Hello canuck, I have a current US visa. I am waiting for a response for the PRTD (retired as a Minor case) in my country. If my PRTD is denied, my plan is the following one: I make an appeal, I go to the USA and cross the border. I understand that I am allowed as a PR to live in Canada 2 years until my appeal is accepted or denied. I will be studying at a canadian university those 2 years. If my appeal is accepted I will continue studying as a PR. If not, I am thinking about applying to a student visa in order to finish my canadian studies. Is my plan possible and viable? What are the advantages and disadvantages?