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Proof required for staying outside Canada with Canadian Spouse to renew PR Card

umairfood1

Full Member
Aug 25, 2013
35
1
Dear all

Need your kind help please.

I need to renew my PR card after i arrive back in canada next month. I am currently living with my Canadian spouse in Pakistan since more than 4 years. I understand my time with spouse will be counted as residence time. However, we have filed taxes in previous years as residential in Canada. I have following questions:

1- What proof i can attach while applying for renewal to show my cohabitation with my Candian spouse in Pakistan? She is housewife and doesn't do any job.
2- Will the taxes filed by both of us as residential in Canada in last years, have any effect on my applications?
3- How much time it could take me to get card when staying in canada after next month?

Waiting for any kind response please
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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Dear all

Need your kind help please.

I need to renew my PR card after i arrive back in canada next month. I am currently living with my Canadian spouse in Pakistan since more than 4 years. I understand my time with spouse will be counted as residence time. However, we have filed taxes in previous years as residential in Canada. I have following questions:

1- What proof i can attach while applying for renewal to show my cohabitation with my Candian spouse in Pakistan? She is housewife and doesn't do any job.
2- Will the taxes filed by both of us as residential in Canada in last years, have any effect on my applications?
3- How much time it could take me to get card when staying in canada after next month?

Waiting for any kind response please
3) Can take up to 3 months or longer
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,571
13,515
Dear all

Need your kind help please.

I need to renew my PR card after i arrive back in canada next month. I am currently living with my Canadian spouse in Pakistan since more than 4 years. I understand my time with spouse will be counted as residence time. However, we have filed taxes in previous years as residential in Canada. I have following questions:

1- What proof i can attach while applying for renewal to show my cohabitation with my Candian spouse in Pakistan? She is housewife and doesn't do any job.
2- Will the taxes filed by both of us as residential in Canada in last years, have any effect on my applications?
3- How much time it could take me to get card when staying in canada after next month?

Waiting for any kind response please
How much time did you spend in Canada as a PR after getting married? Not all time spent with a spouse always counts. There are detailed threads about this. How are you filing taxes as a Canadian resident if you live abroad? If you have lived abroad for 4 years you need to inform CRA that you are a non-resident and ask them to determine if you are a tax resident (that will dependent on your ties to Canada). As a PR living abroad you may not qualify for typical processing time frame. You also would need to reapply for a new health card because you haven't met the residency requirements. You’d only qualify for provincial healthcare and qualify for a new health card if planning on remaining in Canada for 6-12 months depending on the province.
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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How are you filing taxes as a Canadian resident if you live abroad? If you have lived abroad for 4 years you need to inform CRA that you are a non-resident and ask them to determine if you are a tax resident (that will dependent on your ties to Canada).
Perhaps they have a home in Canada which makes them tax residents?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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But it is a significant tie.
Having a home in Canada is indeed a "significant tie" with Canada, as is otherwise filing tax returns in Canada.

But so what? Whatever points there are for having ties to Canada, they will never add up to credit for presence in Canada for days the PR was not present in Canada. The PR here clearly was not present in Canada for at least most (if not all) of the last four years (and other posts suggest not much time in Canada before that either).

Maintaining a home in Canada could be counterproductive in the scenario presented here. Not only was the PR not residing or present in Canada, but needs to qualify for an exception to the Residency Obligation, the accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse credit, which in turn relies on the spouse also not living in Canada but in Pakistan, with the PR, which, one might note with a degree of skepticism, if they have a home in Canada would be despite having a home here.

However, it is not clear the PR here has maintained a home in Canada, and the fact that the PR and spouse have been living in Pakistan for the last four years actually suggests it is more likely otherwise. Nor is it clear why the PR has been filing Canadian tax returns, but for purposes of any Residency Determination, determining whether this PR is complying with the PR Residency Obligation, the filing of tax returns in Canada is not likely to carry much weight, if any at all, since again, after all, there is no doubt the PR has not been present in Canada.

Medicine for one is sometimes poison for another.
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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Having a home in Canada is indeed a "significant tie" with Canada, as is otherwise filing tax returns in Canada.

But so what? Whatever points there are for having ties to Canada, they will never add up to credit for presence in Canada for days the PR was not present in Canada. The PR here clearly was not present in Canada for at least most (if not all) of the last four years (and other posts suggest not much time in Canada before that either).

Maintaining a home in Canada could be counterproductive in the scenario presented here. Not only was the PR not residing or present in Canada, but needs to qualify for an exception to the Residency Obligation, the accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse credit, which in turn relies on the spouse also not living in Canada but in Pakistan, with the PR, which, one might note with a degree of skepticism, if they have a home in Canada would be despite having a home here.

However, it is not clear the PR here has maintained a home in Canada, and the fact that the PR and spouse have been living in Pakistan for the last four years actually suggests it is more likely otherwise. Nor is it clear why the PR has been filing Canadian tax returns, but for purposes of any Residency Determination, determining whether this PR is complying with the PR Residency Obligation, the filing of tax returns in Canada is not likely to carry much weight, if any at all, since again, after all, there is no doubt the PR has not been present in Canada.

Medicine for one is sometimes poison for another.
So what? I suggest you read the CRA webpage. We were talking about why someone can be a tax resident while not residing in Canada.

If anything you if you want to argue, why don't you quote the other poster?
 

Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
… I am currently living with my Canadian spouse in Pakistan since more than 4 years. ..

1- What proof i can attach while applying for renewal to show my cohabitation with my Candian spouse in Pakistan? She is housewife and doesn't do any job.
From a previous thread, here is what I submitted for PRTD based on accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse abroad:
  • [D]ocuments showing living together - copy of both our current and previous drivers license which show the same address, previous lease, warranty deed, last 3 annual property tax assessment, 3 annual mortgage interest statements, 3 annual notices of house value, and a simple letter stating what was being requested, explaining address history, and that I had additional documentation if required.
  • Documents showed both of our names and address and were representative of 5 year period.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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More to maintain clarity in regards to commentary intended to address the OP's situation and distinguish off-topic tangents . . . (recognizing the futility of battling windmills).

So what? I suggest you read the CRA webpage. We were talking about why someone can be a tax resident while not residing in Canada.

If anything you if you want to argue, why don't you quote the other poster?
"We were talking about why someone can be a tax resident while not residing in Canada."​

Maybe YOU were, OFF-Topic . . . but to quote "the other poster," the one setting the agenda for the topic, as in the OP, as in the questions being discussed here:
1- What proof i can attach while applying for renewal to show my cohabitation with my Candian spouse in Pakistan? She is housewife and doesn't do any job.
2- Will the taxes filed by both of us as residential in Canada in last years, have any effect on my applications?
3- How much time it could take me to get card when staying in canada after next month?

Meanwhile, these same questions have been addressed in some depth in the other topic where the OP also posed them. Along with cautionary observations acknowledging that the difference between "being with" versus "going with" can have an impact on a PR relying on Residency Obligation credit for days "accompanying" a Canadian citizen spouse outside Canada.

"I suggest you read the CRA webpage."​

Well, we are into that season when, unfortunately, I spend far too much time navigating CRA information. So, thanks for the suggestion but it was unnecessary; been there, done that, doing that, still in progress. Happens every year. The joys of owning one's own business (meaning the not-so-joyous but rather tedious accounting duties that come with being self-employed). Otherwise, however, that has zero to do with the OP's situation or questions.

To be clear, the information provided online by CRA will not illuminate anything at all about how this PR can prove they meet the PR Residency Obligation based on accompanying their Canadian citizen spouse in Pakistan.


"If anything you if you want to argue . . . "​

Not sure what this means, the hypothetical's premise rather oddly phrased.

There is no argument, nonetheless, but rather just pointing out how things work: No matter how many significant ties a PR has in Canada, they will not support credit toward meeting the RO for days the PR was NOT IN Canada. Period.

Thus, for the OP and the situation posed here, the subject being discussed in this topic, having significant ties in Canada (be that a home or other ties warranting filing a Canadian tax return) does NOT help, and as I was attempting to caution the OP, might even invite concerns there has been an effort to manipulate appearances. Perhaps I should have been more explicit and further stated (at the price of an even longer post) this means it could compromise the OP's credibility in the perception of the total stranger bureaucrats who determine whether the PR qualifies for the accompanying a Citizen spouse exception to the RO. Never good to have one's credibility in question.

Nonetheless, just to be clear, again no amount of significant ties in Canada is going to give a PR RO credit for days they were NOT present IN Canada . . . even though significant ties to Canada can be supporting evidence in some other contexts (such as supporting other evidence of residing in Canada, for periods the PR was actually IN Canada, or to support making a H&C case for keeping PR status despite failing to comply with the RO). Which is to say that maintaining a residence in Canada, and likewise filing tax returns in Canada, will NOT give the OP here a single day's credit toward the RO for the periods of time the OP has been outside Canada.

For reference, again the OP's situation has been addressed at some length here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/applying-for-renewal-of-pr-1095-days-absent-while-accompaying-citizen-wife.466928/#post-10723457 where, in regards to what proof to submit, the OP was referred to the appendix in the PR card application guide, "Situation B" in particuar:

Foremost, in response to your questions in particular, if you make a PR card application, or an application for a PR Travel Document, follow the instructions in the Guide, in Appendix A, in the section for Situation B. Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada. Guide for PR card application is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html#appendixA (guide for PR TD application is very similar). In addition to proof of spouse's Canadian citizenship and proof of marriage relationship, what is mostly needed is proof that both resided at the same address; that is, evidence showing you lived at the residential address where you have been living, and similarly evidence your spouse was living at that same address.
And also see post by @Tubsmagee above, offering a sample of evidence showing the couple have been living together.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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If anything you if you want to argue, why don't you quote the other poster?
Chill out. Why do you think people are attacking you? Yeah, it was probably a slight internet misquote (should have quoted someone else).

I think the 'so what' was basically subtweeting at @canuck78, who likes to bring up tax issues (despite not understanding them and not being able to provide sources) when the question was actually about something else (i.e. 78 was misdirecting the conversation to something about taxes, when the original question was about whether that would work for the 'accompanying spouse' issue, which is NOT the same thing as whether one paid taxes and whether one should have, etc. But then 78 likes to opine about tangential / orthogonal topics on which clearly ... sub-optimal level of knowledge)
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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Chill out. Why do you think people are attacking you? Yeah, it was probably a slight internet misquote (should have quoted someone else).

I think the 'so what' was basically subtweeting at @canuck78, who likes to bring up tax issues (despite not understanding them and not being able to provide sources) when the question was actually about something else (i.e. 78 was misdirecting the conversation to something about taxes, when the original question was about whether that would work for the 'accompanying spouse' issue, which is NOT the same thing as whether one paid taxes and whether one should have, etc. But then 78 likes to opine about tangential / orthogonal topics on which clearly ... sub-optimal level of knowledge)
As @dpenabill correctly pointed out I brought up the tax isssue because of the inconsistencies in OPs statement about being a resident and filing taxes but wanting to claim time abroad with their spouse. Not consistent statements.

Bring up the informaing CRA when you leave Canada because Canada has a huge issue with people being unaware or just choosing not to inform CRA when they leave Canada. Plenty of examples on this forum and on canlii of people still receiving benefits while living abroad but in general is a well known issue. Same goes with residency requirements for healthcare. Most are completely unaware while some are fully aware and break the rules. Hopefully people who are just unaware and with the information will contact CRA and will also look into the residency requirements to qualify for healthcare in their province.
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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As @dpenabill correctly pointed out I brought up the tax isssue because of the inconsistencies in OPs statement about being a resident and filing taxes but wanting to claim time abroad with their spouse. Not consistent statements.

Bring up the informaing CRA when you leave Canada because Canada has a huge issue with people being unaware or just choosing not to inform CRA when they leave Canada. Plenty of examples on this forum and on canlii of people still receiving benefits while living abroad but in general is a well known issue. Same goes with residency requirements for healthcare. Most are completely unaware while some are fully aware and break the rules. Hopefully people who are just unaware and with the information will contact CRA and will also look into the residency requirements to qualify for healthcare in their province.
No @dpenabill did not correctly pointed out. It should have quoted your post instead. On the contrary, @armoured correctly pointed out you misdirecting the conversation to something about taxes....
 
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canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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No @dpenabill did not correctly pointed out. It should have quoted your post instead. On the contrary, @armoured correctly pointed out you misdirecting the conversation to something about taxes....
Given that OP is stating that they filed taxes as a resident while also stating that they have lived in Pakistan for the past 4 years their residency and tax residency is relevant. If OP and their spouse have been using a Canadian residential address while also stating they are living together in Pakistan and want to try and count days accompanying a Canadian spouse abroad the VO may ask for clarification on their residency. Tax residency would be something they should clarify with CRA before refilling their taxes as a non-resident if they have been filing as a Canadian resident. If they have been using a Canadian address on their taxes and filing as residents it will be in their best interests to refile as non-residents before applying for PR card renewal.