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Proof of Funds flexibility

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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I understand that the reasoning behind the "proof of Funds" requirement is to ensure that newly arrived immigrants have enough of a financial cushion to tide them over until they can find steady employment. In light of this, is there any flexibility at all regarding this requirement for individuals/families that have a substantial income that will continue even after arriving in Canada?

My wife and I, along with two teenage daughters hope to settle in the greater-Vancouver area. I am retired from the U.S. Army. Although we're only in our late-40's, I receive a monthly pension (military retirement & VA combined) of approximately US $7800. Emigration from the U.S. will in no way affect/reduce this payment. As a matter of fact, we really have no intention/need to seek employment (at least not on a full-time basis) after arrival in Canada, unless it becomes neccessary as a condition for immigration approval. If I can show suitable verification of these payments, can the "Proof of Funds" requirement be waived? On a related note, can 401K balances be used to satisfy the "Proof of Funds" requirement?
 

pecimob

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Aug 22, 2008
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for a family of 4 you are required to show $19,600. I think a certificate of deposit showing the account balance plus some cash in hand would help.
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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What kind of application are you looking into? Canada has no "retirement" class or anything like that. The federal skilled worker application would have allowed you to come in and settle if you had education, work experience etc. without getting a job offer but right now they are changing the rules and will soon come up with a list of 38 preferred occupations. Nobody knows yet exactly what the new rules will be and it's not like you can avoid them by applying now since they've already applied the new rules to new applications.

You or the wife could try to get a job offer. If you are considered a skilled temporary worker, you will have the option of getting permanent residency later. Or you could wait a couple of months for the new rules for the federal skilled worker. Or learn french and apply for a quebec skilled worker but you'd have to move to quebec to start.
 

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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Leon,
Thanks for your response. A bit more info and some thoughts ... My wife and I are U.S. citizens and currently reside in Bellingham, WA. Our twin daughters are almost 20 and in college (If they decide to follow us they'll do so later on their own.) Since we live so close to the U.S. - Canadian border, we have travelled in southern BC frequently. We have developed a strong desire to live in/near Vancouver. Last year I retired from the U.S. Army, and although we are only in our late 40's, we are fortunate enough (financially speaking) not to need to work any longer. We are by no means wealthy, but have been able to live confortably enough in Northern Washington, and from my fairly extensive research I am certain we would be able to maintain the same relative lifestyle 20 or 30 miles to the north in the greater Vancouver area. Our current monthly income is approximately U.S. $7800 (military & VA retirement) and all of these funds would continue to be received regardless of whether we live in the U.S. or in Canada. In 15
years or so, our income will increase substantially when we begin to receive our social security (old-age pension) and begin to draw down our 401K retirement account (approx. another U.S. $4500 or so monthly). Additionally (again as a result of my military service retirement) we have comprehensive lifetime medical and dental coverage. I've already checked into this and the coverages are portable. In other words, we'd be able to receive medical/dental care within Canada and our insurance will cover the costs. As an added bonus we can also choose to receive care in the U.S. if we so desire (again owing to Vancouver's proximity to the U.S. Border.), but for routine every-day care we'd most likely opt to use a local practitioner rather than deal with the hassle of 2 border crossings.


1. As you mentioned, there is (at least as far as I am aware) unfortunately no provision in the Canadian Immigration system for retirees who desire to settle in Canada. If I'm mistaken here, someone PLEASE speak up! We have to intention nor desire to work in Canada, receive government provided/subsidized medical care from Canada, nor any form of social assistance/old-age pension from Canada. Nor do we have any problem paying taxes in Canada (I've learned that there are reciprocal U.S./Canada agreements pertaining to taxation, social security/old age pensions, etc. so this should be an issue in any case.)

2. I'm aware of the 6-month stay limitation, technically a visitors visa, although I'm not sure exactly how this is tracked or enforced for visitors from visa-exempt countries. During our many visits over the past 3 or so years, ranging from short one-day excursions to several-week long visits, we've never so much as had to show a passport at the border (We both possess valid U.S. passports but up until now have always used only our Washington state driver licenses when crossing the border.) I realize that technically we're always at the mercy of the agent at the border as to whether or not we will be admitted, but in the past we've never had even the slightest problem (over 40 crossings into Canada in the past 3 years). From what I've been able to gather, no one seems to be sure of exactly how the 6-month limitation is to be interpreted ... is it 6 months within a 1-year time frame/how long of an absence from Canada before one gets a new clock/etc. Naturally, we'll be making frequent trips back to the U.S., some short term day trips and some longer week-long or multi-week trips. Is it even possible to track exactly how long we're in or out of the country? If we were to simply "move" to Canada (unoffically) and rent or buy an apartment/house but never try to obtain work, would we be "hunted down" and given the heave-ho or would anyone even notice we were there?

3. I don't know where in Canada you're locaterd, but some food for thought ... anyone reading that is familiar with northern Washington/southern BC is probably familiar with the geographical oddity of Point Roberts. We have friends there and have visted them on occasion, sometimes just for an afternoon BBQ, at other times for a week or more. Can a U.S. citizen be prevented from (wink, wink) "transitting" Canada in order to reach this part of the U.S.?

4. I'm aware that it is perfectly legal for a foreign national (non-Canadian resident) to purchase property, such as a vacation home, in Canada. Does the same apply to renting a house or apartment? Can a non resident open a Canadfian bank account? Drivers License?

Ultimately, our goal is to settle down LEGALLY in Vancouver. If it means having to return to work (at least temporarily) in order to do so, we are certainly willing to do that. Would it be best to pursue PR via FSW program (my military background is as a German/Russian/English translator/interpreter and in counterintelligence (specialising in computer/information security). Or would I be better off finding a job, applying for a Temp Work Permit and then PR (this should be do-able due to our close proximity), or are there other/better options we can/should pursue in order to achieve our goal/dream?

Sorry about the long read! Any and all thoughts/ideas/comments would be greatly appreciated!
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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Yeah, you could probably quietly slip into Canada and go unnoticed. The last time I rented an apartment, I did not have to show any immigration documents, just ID. Some places might ask for your social insurance number because they want to run a credit check but you could rent a place that doesn't. I opened a bank account before I had a SIN and it was not a big deal. Getting power, cable, phone etc. should not be a big deal either. They might ask for a deposit if they can't run a credit check or you can give them a credit card number as insurance. Drivers license might be a problem since they want to see some immigration documents, you can see at http://www.icbc.com/licensing/lic_getlic_id_reqs.asp You can try it anyway, tell them you are a visitor staying for 6 months and BC law tells you that you should get a new license within 90 days. I am in AB and here there are registries doing the drivers licenses. They have a set of rules but still depends on each one and the staff there what they will do exactly.

It's better to be legal though. You could use one of your tourist trips to hunt for a job. The employer would apply for your work permit. You can ask the employer to help you apply for permanent residency via provincial nominee program. You would get a nominee certificate from BC and send that along with your PR application. You would include your wife and daughters. Once you get PR, you don't have to work. Live in Canada as PR for 3 years and then you can apply for citizenship.
 

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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Thanks guys, I appreciate all of your comments.

I am actually wondering (dreaming?) about the feasibility of "semi-permanently" setting up household in BC under one of the more essoteric CIC provisions (i.e., Business travel, writer, etc.). Since all of my income is, and will continue to be, from non-CA sources, and since I have to desire nor need to use any CA social services (medical/old-age/etc.), I would I declare myself to be a "writer" or "author"? I could say my purpose for being in CA is for "inspirational" reasons! :) Or maybe I could be a "travel writer" and occasionally blog on travel websites about BC tourism hotspots!

All joking aside, my ultimate goal is a completely legit PR status. Since I'm retired anyway and have lots of time on my hands, and since I'm only a 40-minute drive from downtown Vancouver, I think I'll explore job possibilities with the intent of getting a temp worker visa, and then PR from there.

On a related note, is anyone familiar with the NEXUS program? As I understand it, its designed to facilitate speedy border crossings (separate lanes) for frequent cross-border travellers. I'm aware taht many Point Roberts residents have NEXUS passes since they have to endure 4 international crossings on a pretty much daily basis in order to go shopping, attend school, get medical care, etc. I cross into CA on average onced a week, sometimes more often, and wonder if there are any special qualifications or if anyone who frequently travels can apply for one?

Again, thanks for all the comments.
 

Leon

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It doesn't seem to be a big deal at all to get a Nexus card, see http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/trusted_traveler/nexus_prog/nexus.xml

I don't think Canada has any provisions for writers to get PR but if you have loads of cash and want to invest in business, there are ways of getting in. As a regional BC investor, you would have to invest 200,000 in a regional business and I think they check up on you in 2 years to see how your business is going before they give you PR.

You can also come in as a visitor and apply to CIC to extend your visit visa showing that you have enough income to support yourself but they are not supposed to give you a temporary visa unless they believe you are staying temporarily.

Getting PR is also better for your kids who will be able to live in either country. If you apply for PR while your kids are under 22 or still studying, you can get it for them too but to keep it, they would have to live in Canada 2 out of every 5 years.
 

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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Actually, I believe that there may be a simpler option for us ... I few weeks ago (I lurked here for quite a while before registering and posting) I remember reading a post (I think it was BCGuy) regarding PNP for unskilled workers in BC. If I recall correctly, he mentioned that due to a significant labor shortage in BC, particularly a shortage of unskilled workers to fill jobs in the fast food & hotel/lodging industries, one should be able to qualify by finding a job and then applying for PNP. I (or my wife) would have absolutely no problem taking on such a job temporarily (1 - 2 years or so if neccessary) if it ultimately leads to PR status. Since we will have more than sufficient income from other sources, the low wages from such employment would not be an issue fo us.

1. Does anyone know how long I/we would be required to stay employed in such a job before qualifying for PR?

2. If one of us were to qualify for a Temp Workers Permit under this program, would the other be able to seek employment (if we so desired)? If so, would it be an Open Work Permit?

3. Would such work have to be full-time, or could it be part-time as long as we could document sufficient alternative income?

4. Assuming this program does in fact exist, is there a centralized listing/clearing house of job vacancies or employers? Or is it simply a matter of contacting restaurants, hotels, motels, etc. Are potential employers generally familiar with the PNP program and willing to deal with what I assume are additional hassles for them of hiring foreign workers, or are they generally more reluctant? We're fortunate in that we have both the time, live in the right place, and have multiple vehicles at our disposal to job hunt, attend interviews, etc. so that should definitely work in our favor. As I mentioned earlier, we're only 40 minutes or so from downtown Vancouver, so we can get to pretty much anywhere in the metro area within an hour or so.

5. Again, we're willing to do what we must in order to achieve our goal, even if it means taking on an undesirable low paying job. But I want to be completely upfront and state from the start that we'd only keep such a job for the minimum length of time necessary in order for us to achieve legal status.

Thank you all again for your extremely helpful comments/ideas.
 

Leon

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1. In AB the low skilled workers have to be employed for 6 months to qualify for PNP and getting the PR takes another 6-15 months but if you quit your job at any point before you get the PR, your application gets cancelled.

In BC you have to work for 9 months before you can apply, see http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/provincialnominee/strategicoccupations/entrylevel.htm I don't know the processing times there. It is also more than just having no problem taking one of those jobs. Preferably you need to have experience doing one of those jobs. That is the point of bringing people in, because they already know what they are doing. Then again, I have also heard that the employer sets the requirements. If the employer wants to hire you even if you have no experience, that might be good enough.

2. You can only get open spousal work permit if you are working in a skilled job. On a low skilled, the spouse would be free to come visit, apply for visit visa extension or look for own job and work permit.

3. I believe it might have to be full time but not 100% on that. If you find a slightly shady employer, maybe you can get him to allow you to job share. One of you would be the employee on record doing a full time job but you split up the shifts or work alternate days or if it's a job like cleaning hotel rooms, maybe you can work at the same time and get it done faster.

4. You have to look for jobs yourself. The PNP does not give out any kind of list. The employers on such a list would get swamped with requests for jobs. If the employer doesn't know about the PNP, you can tell them but they are not required to do PNP for you unless they want to.

5. If you tell the employer that you are leaving as soon as you get your PR, there is less incentive for him to do the PNP. The PNP is meant to help employers keep workers that they have trained. Still, it's quite possible that you can find someone who will do the PNP just to keep you for the 9 months plus the time it takes you to get PR.

If you get a job as a skilled, you can apply through the PNP right away, no waiting 9 months but your employer might want you to do the probation period first. As a skilled, you would get an open work permit for your spouse. If your employer would not want to do PNP for you, you would also have the option after 2 years to apply for Canadian experience class.
 

claxtonCT

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Oct 11, 2008
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Hello guys, I’m new here, first post!

Hey NeedleArtist, I read your story and I want to ask you if you have considered a student permit for you? The student permit will allow you to live in Canada, your spouse would be able to live in Canada with you and this is renewable, as long as you are studying. To get the visa you have to prove you have funds to maintain yourself and prove to the immigration officer you have intention of returning back home after your studies are completed. Since you said you have lots of time in your hands you might want to pursue some higher education (to continue where you started). This would be 100% legal and fast, since student permits are quick to get. Vancouver is top destination for international students. I’m not a lawyer and I’m not sure if there would be any implications because of the fact you are retired but you should look into it.
 

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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claxtonCT:
Thanks you for your comments. I'll certainly look into it, but I wonder whether or not ther's an age limitation to qualify for a student visa. I'm not averse to "going back to school" particularly if I could do so without having to take a fulltime course load, maybe auditing courses that interest me rather than pursuing another degree program. I'm looking forward to enjoying retired life (having spent 27 years in the Army) so I really have no need nor desire to begin a new career from the start.
 

BCguy

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There is no age limitation for Student visa,In fact Simon Fraser University runs a Senior Program with an average age of 63.You can go for it.
 

NeedleArtist

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Oct 9, 2008
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BCguy -
Thanks so much for the heads up! At the moment I'm in Ohio for a few weeks attending a family wedding, bu when I return to WASH I'll take a drive up to the University and speak with the admissions folks. This looks like it may be a very promising route for me to take.
 

popiston

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Feb 5, 2009
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NeedleArtist said:
BCguy -
Thanks so much for the heads up! At the moment I'm in Ohio for a few weeks attending a family wedding, bu when I return to WASH I'll take a drive up to the University and speak with the admissions folks. This looks like it may be a very promising route for me to take.
A very interesting real story!
I think it's easy to apply for a student visa, since you have perfect finanical background.