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Process and timeframe for H&C application

Copingwithlife

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Within the time frame of the visitation, the mother had every intention to leave Canada with her husband to have her child; however, due to a two week overstay of his ESTA visa on a previous visit, the father was denied entry. Rather than have the mother give birth to the child alone without the support of her husband, the decision was made to stay together in Canada for the well being of the mother and child.

If the non resident mother is removed, then the circumstances are such that the children either stay with the father in Canada without their mother, or leave with the mother and be without their father. No other options.

The children, since their birth, have been with their father and mother exclusively 24 hours a day.

The extent of harm for children separated from their parents is well documented and currently considered to be a global crisis.
Hirokazu Yoshikawa, a developmental psychologist at New York University codirects NYU’s Global TIES for Children and has done extensive research (as well as thousands of other psychological studies) on the irreparable harm - including cognitive, social-emotional and other mental health problems for children separated from their parent.

To have no reservations to remove a parent knowing it would cause irreparable damage for the children is, in my opinion, with all due respect, abominable inhumanity regardless of government law.

You mention that a Federal temporary stay of removal is possible relative to an H&C decision. Do you know if a stay of removal is applicable to the three types of removal orders (- departure order, exclusion order, and deportation order) prior to or during the process of an H&C application?
“To have no reservations to remove a parent knowing it would cause irreparable damage for the children is, in my opinion, with all due respect, abominable inhumanity regardless of government law.”

That’s pushing the envelope when it comes to someone who CHOSE to stay here and have children . Multiple children . Actions have consequences. This is the consequence.
Hate to break it to you . This isn’t the 1970’s. Lots of kids have single parents these days. Divorced whatever .
But to blame humanity for someone’s dec
Abominable inhumanity ? That’s a stretch.

A stretch
 
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nic2

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There's no point debating this with us. We are not IRCC / CBSA.

I would very very strongly encourage you to move over to the main H&C thread in the refugee / asylum section of the forum. This is where the vast majority of discussions on this topic are found. You'll be able to read through other stories there and get the best advice on your current situation / status, as well as what the options would be in the unlikely event you're facing an actual removal from Canada.

I assume there is a reason why family sponsorship is not possible since that would be the preferred option.

Good luck.
Scylla, thus far, the information and opinions I have received from @canuck78 and @Bornlucky on this thread have been extremely helpful - more helpful than any other sources I've found for assessing the situation. I am very grateful to them for their generous input - input that may also be helpful to others

And while I will certainly read and hopefully contribute to the threads in the refugee/asylum section I hope you don't mind, at this point in time, continuation of the thread.

Scylla, if I understand you correctly, you are of the opinion removal from Canada is an 'unlikely event' which is good news.
May I ask why you feel that removal would be unlikely?
 

scylla

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Scylla, thus far, the information and opinions I have received from @canuck78 and @Bornlucky on this thread have been extremely helpful - more helpful than any other sources I've found for assessing the situation. I am very grateful to them for their generous input - input that may also be helpful to others

And while I will certainly read and hopefully contribute to the threads in the refugee/asylum section I hope you don't mind, at this point in time, continuation of the thread.

Scylla, if I understand you correctly, you are of the opinion removal from Canada is an 'unlikely event' which is good news.
May I ask why you feel that removal would be unlikely?
The 'unlikely event' statement was a generalization about H&C applications. Overall, many H&C applicants are able to remain in Canada to wait out either a positive or negative decision. Of course not all are. There are absolutely people who are removed during processing.

I can't comment on your specific scenario or chances. There are many different factors that can play into this and I don't have the details of your case.
 
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nic2

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A temporary Stay of Removal from the Federal Court of Canada would apply to any removal Order.

As for the other things mentioned, and the due respect offered, I don't recollect any removals where any foreknowledge of irreparable harm occurred. There are tens, or hundreds, of millions of children who grow up with only one parental figure so as parents divorce, pass away, get incarcerated, slip into comas or get deported, it's a tragic but a broadly shared reality.

Abominable inhumanity is on unvarnished display frequently in H&Cs where children have been tortured, trafficked, neglected, abused and any other atrocious behaiour one might imagine. It's noteworthy that the CBSA and provincial child services have a close working relationship in order to seize children from dangerous situations. It's terrible when a child is forced into foster care but it is only used when there are "no other options."

As I mentioned earlier, the devil is in the details and it's the responsibility of the applicant to provide sufficient evidence to compel a positive decision. For my part I would say that any request for relief from an executable removal order that is adorned with some sort of self-righteous indignation is like wearing plaid and polka dots. If you paint yourself into a corner it's not really the paint's fault.
If a person is served with a removal order from IRCC or CBSA, is it correct to conclude that he/she can immediately apply to the Federal court for a stay?

What you say regarding children who grow up with only one parent is tragic and a broadly shared reality is indeed true; however, if a judge or officer has the power to stay a removal order which would separate a child from their parent then such tragedy doesn't become a reality.

Re plaid and polka dots:
Can I infer, from your experience, that you are of the opinion that a judge or officer is unlikely to ever stay a removal order based on the research of psychological studies which conclude a child removed from a parent will cause irreparable harm to the child?
 

Bornlucky

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If a person is served with a removal order from IRCC or CBSA, is it correct to conclude that he/she can immediately apply to the Federal court for a stay?

What you say regarding children who grow up with only one parent is tragic and a broadly shared reality is indeed true; however, if a judge or officer has the power to stay a removal order which would separate a child from their parent then such tragedy doesn't become a reality.

Re plaid and polka dots:
Can I infer, from your experience, that you are of the opinion that a judge or officer is unlikely to ever stay a removal order based on the research of psychological studies which conclude a child removed from a parent will cause irreparable harm to the child?
In my experience psychological research studies have routinely been included with H&C applications since the Best Interests of the Child became an issue. They can and probably have worked, and they can also fail to convince decision-makers that they outweigh other considerations.

Something case specific from an accredited specialist with a professional knowledge of the applicants will have greater weight than a generalized report about how nations owe citizenship to errant moms and dads.

My reference about plaid and polka dots was probably insensitive but it is more aligned with how people facing removal often behave like some injustice is being committed because: they have children, they pay taxes, they don't sell drugs - or, whatever pride-saving bluster that they can muster when confronted with the consequences of not conforming with the law of a foreign nation. It's very common but it's not a good look for the subject of a removal order.

If simply having a child shields any parent from any future separation then this isn't a feasible understanding of what's reasonable. So, people with the authority to make the decision need to be alive and alert to the issues raised about the welfare of the children. The evidence provided needs to be compelling and specific to the people concerned.

Irreparable harm has to be established by the principle applicants so no one should get the notion that simply being fertile excludes a person's requirement to conform to the laws of a foreign country.

What country would the removal be to, and how is it that the father will be unable to accompany them there in order to live happily ever after? That seems to be an obvious solution to this matter.
 
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nic2

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In my experience psychological research studies have routinely been included with H&C applications since the Best Interests of the Child became an issue. They can and probably have worked, and they can also fail to convince decision-makers that they outweigh other considerations.

Something case specific from an accredited specialist with a professional knowledge of the applicants will have greater weight than a generalized report about how nations owe citizenship to errant moms and dads.

My reference about plaid and polka dots was probably insensitive but it is more aligned with how people facing removal often behave like some injustice is being committed because: they have children, they pay taxes, they don't sell drugs - or, whatever pride-saving bluster that they can muster when confronted with the consequences of not conforming with the law of a foreign nation. It's very common but it's not a good look for the subject of a removal order.

If simply having a child shields any parent from any future separation then this isn't a feasible understanding of what's reasonable. So, people with the authority to make the decision need to be alive and alert to the issues raised about the welfare of the children. The evidence provided needs to be compelling and specific to the people concerned.

Irreparable harm has to be established by the principle applicants so no one should get the notion that simply being fertile excludes a person's requirement to conform to the laws of a foreign country.

What country would the removal be to, and how is it that the father will be unable to accompany them there in order to live happily ever after? That seems to be an obvious solution to this matter.
Don't worry about risking insensitivity - it's not so harsh when it's so well dressed in plaids :)

Good to know that a legitimate concern for a child with an accompanying support letter in his back pocket from an accredited specialist carries some weight. Thank you.

Your description conjured an image of a long line of fertile women waiting to enter at the front the door of a country - some of the women are dressed in a manner many an Amish and muslim might find unbecoming in contrast to others watching enthusiastically in anticipation of potential interaction,
The country, it should be noted, has the second largest land mass on the planet - 9.9 million squ. km with a population a few million less than the city of Tokyo with a land mass of 6,900 squ. km.

Bornlucky, for the benefit of the enthusiastic ones, some of whom may be members here on the website, how long would you estimate the fertile line up to be if the current laws were not in place, and do you think there's enough space in the country for them?

Glad you mentioned the removal country to be.
The history of the country is rather disconcerting. It was invaded by a far superior foreign military power whose government imposed action which, according to critics, amounted to genocide, massive illegal appropriation of virtually all the land, and currently insufficient housing, police brutality and restricted access to essentials such as clean water, affordable food and healthcare for the original inhabitants and, according to The Guardian and other critics - left 'a toxic legacy of abuse and death of children'.

Oh, sorry, wait a minute, Bornlucky, I made a mistake - that's not the country she'd be removed to, that's Canada, isn't it - y'know the same country with the big law lock to prevent all those dodgy fertile women waiting in line to get in ;)

If I can diverge from my infantile humour for a moment ....
H&C applications, from my understanding, are usually a last resort; however, if an H&C application is made and refused, can an application be made to sponsor a spouse for permanent residency and, if so, what is the waiting period for the application after the H&C refusal?
 
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scylla

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If I can diverge from my infantile humour for a moment ....
H&C applications, from my understanding, are usually a last resort; however, if an H&C application is made and refused, can an application be made to sponsor a spouse for permanent residency and, if so, what is the waiting period for the application after the H&C refusal?
Last resort isn't quite the right way to look at it. H&C applications should only be used when you cannot qualify through another program. For example, in your instance, it should not be possible for your partner to sponsor you. If it is in fact possible for your partner to sponsor you, you need to do that instead of H&C.

If H&C is refused, then you can immediately apply for PR through spousal sponsorship. There is no waiting period. However things could get more dicey at that point in terms of being able to remain in Canada. Much like H&C, submitting a spousal sponsorship application does not prevent someone from being removed from Canada.
 
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Bornlucky

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Ahh, you got me! I'm now too embarrassed for taking this laughing matter seriously to carry on.

A good lawyer can answer all of these questions.

Best of luck to her.
 
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nic2

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Last resort isn't quite the right way to look at it. H&C applications should only be used when you cannot qualify through another program. For example, in your instance, it should not be possible for your partner to sponsor you. If it is in fact possible for your partner to sponsor you, you need to do that instead of H&C.

If H&C is refused, then you can immediately apply for PR through spousal sponsorship. There is no waiting period. However things could get more dicey at that point in terms of being able to remain in Canada. Much like H&C, submitting a spousal sponsorship application does not prevent someone from being removed from Canada.
You, @canuck78, and @Bornlucky, have, unlike myself, experience and knowledge on the subject, and all of you recommend sponsorship as the better option.
The primary reason for choosing the H&C option over sponsorship was because the income of the sponsor who, btw, is my best friend, does not currently meet the threshold for sponsorship. While his income is enough to support his spouse and children without assistance it, nevertheless, doesn't meet the required amount.
Can his relatives or others like myself be cosigners?
 

scylla

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You, @canuck78, and @Bornlucky, have, unlike myself, experience and knowledge on the subject, and all of you recommend sponsorship as the better option.
The primary reason for choosing the H&C option over sponsorship was because the income of the sponsor who, btw, is my best friend, does not currently meet the threshold for sponsorship. While his income is enough to support his spouse and children without assistance it, nevertheless, doesn't meet the required amount.
Can his relatives or others like myself be cosigners?
Your post is extremely confusing.

Is your sponsor your best friend or your partner / spouse? I find this bit very confusing: "While his income is enough to support his spouse and children without assistance it, nevertheless, doesn't meet the required amount." Are you referring to yourself here when you mention his spouse?

There are no income requirements for spousal sponsorship. The sponsor just cannot be on social assistance.

No, a relative cannot cosign.

Again, I am very confused about what's going on now.
 

Robin220

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Hello Guys

how can we get access for ECAS , my lawyer provide his own email address with my H and c File and i am not getting any updated.
 

scylla

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You, @canuck78, and @Bornlucky, have, unlike myself, experience and knowledge on the subject, and all of you recommend sponsorship as the better option.
The primary reason for choosing the H&C option over sponsorship was because the income of the sponsor who, btw, is my best friend, does not currently meet the threshold for sponsorship. While his income is enough to support his spouse and children without assistance it, nevertheless, doesn't meet the required amount.
Can his relatives or others like myself be cosigners?
So reading this again, I think you may be saying that you are posting on behalf of your best friend and that you are not the one being sponsored. You need to confirm this since your post is really extremely confusing.

Let's assume you are asking all of these questions on behalf of a friend who is the sponsor. As long as that friend is not on social assistance / welfare (employment insurance is fine), then he is good to sponsor and H&C is absolutely the wrong choice. Again, there are no income requirements to sponsor a spouse. You just cannot be on social assistance.
 
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nic2

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Ahh, you got me! I'm now too embarrassed for taking this laughing matter seriously to carry on.

A good lawyer can answer all of these questions.

Best of luck to her.
Bornlucky, I attempted to use a little plaid humour to highlight the point that if the character of the applicant was to be examined, then, objectively, it's only fair to use the same microscope on those making the decision to determine if perhaps they may have painted themselves into a corner :)

Your contribution was extremely helpful and your articulate writing made serious content entertaining.

I was looking forward to your input regarding the consideration of 'settlement' on H&C applications which I'm sure would be helpful to others but, alas, it appears this is not to be :(
 
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nic2

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So reading this again, I think you may be saying that you are posting on behalf of your best friend and that you are not the one being sponsored. You need to confirm this since your post is really extremely confusing.

Let's assume you are asking all of these questions on behalf of a friend who is the sponsor. As long as that friend is not on social assistance / welfare (employment insurance is fine), then he is good to sponsor and H&C is absolutely the wrong choice. Again, there are no income requirements to sponsor a spouse. You just cannot be on social assistance.
Apologies if my post was extremely confusing.
Yes, the sponsor is my best friend.

The idea of income requirements was based on this gov. link regarding sponsorship:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5482-instruction-fill-financial-evaluation-form-1283.html

It includes this section which I may be interpreting incorrectly:
Minimum necessary income
Refer to the low income cut-off table (Table 1) and go down the column until you come to the line that matches the number of people as determined in Box 7. This is the amount of income you must have to sponsor your relatives. Enter that amount in the box at question 8.
 

scylla

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Bornlucky, I attempted to use a little plaid humour to highlight the point that if the character of applicant was to be examined, then, objectively, it's only fair to use the same microscope on those making the decision to determine if perhaps they may have painted themselves into a corner :)

Your contribution was extremely helpful and your articulate writing made serious content entertaining.

I was looking forward to your input regarding the consideration of 'settlement' on H&C applications which I'm sure would be helpful to others but, alas, it appears this is not to be :(
So some unsolicited advice. You are free to ignore it.

People offer advice here for free.

The best approach is to keep your posts to the point. Avoid the extra stuff. It's just more to read and wade through to try to figure what you are asking.

I will be brutally honest and say that I've almost walked away from this thread several times because your posts are just too hard to get through and long to read. Too much extra stuff that's not relevant. Just way too much work. I think I'm at the walking away point now.

I've also strongly recommended you move to the main H&C thread. You've opted to continue in this thread. Your call again. IMO you are missing out on an absolute ton of great information and advice.

Anyway, all your call.