Probable Resident status Revocation ...please advise

[DVR]

Hi,

I have little advanced level case. We have stayed only month in last 5 years clearly violating RO. Still we came there in Canada after telling all the truth at airport. Fortunately, there was no issue. Honesty is the best policy. Last 8 months we are here in Canada and our life is kind of settled. I have one more daughter born outside Canada. After coming here, We filed her sponsorship as we wanted her to be here ASAP.

Now, as expected, sponsorship process is getting delayed. We went to local MP's office and explain the case. He called CIC and told the latest status that CIC is reviewing our status first which can lead to revocation of resident status due to clear violation of RO. However, as of today, we have not received any letter from CIC about such revocation and we are just expecting such negative response from CIC.

Now, my questions to all learned senior members here are:

1. If I get such letter from CIC about our Status revocation, what is the way out to continue to stay here and also continue my daughter's sponsorship so that she also comes here ASAP?
2. What steps we should take now so that we (along with other daughter born outside) stay together here and live happily?
3. Is there anything we can do in advance rather than waiting for such letter to come and act in haste? I mean "Prepare before the tsunami comes".

Really appreciate your help here.

Thanks in advance.

 

[on-hold]

I'm not an expert, but I suspect that this happened:

- you were passed through the airport without being reported; at that moment you were in Canada legally but without full PR status, and if you had stayed low for two years, you would have regained PR

- however, by applying to sponsor your daughter, which can only be done by PRs (which you technically do not have right now despite being in Canada, because it requires 2/5 years residence on a rolling scale), you forced CIC to examine your status and they found you were out of it; similarly to if you had insisted that they report you at the airport. Now they have probably started a process to review and remove your PR, and require you to leave Canada.

I'm sorry if this is true, I hope that I have misunderstood the situation and the likelihoods. My apologies if that is the case.

 

[DVR]

Hello on-hold,

thanks for such a prompt reply.

Yes. you have understood the case correctly. But, What I need is a solution to this problem. We are here since last 8 months and quite settled and we want a solution to stay here and also call my other daughter as well.

Appreciate if you or other experts on the board help to solve the issue.

Thanks again.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

1. If I get such letter from CIC about our Status revocation, what is the way out to continue to stay here and also continue my daughter's sponsorship so that she also comes here ASAP?
2. What steps we should take now so that we (along with other daughter born outside) stay together here and live happily?
3. Is there anything we can do in advance rather than waiting for such letter to come and act in haste? I mean "Prepare before the tsunami comes".

1. There isn't "a way out". Unless you have serious H&C considerations as to why you stayed out of Canada for 5 years, you can expect that your PR status will be revoked, your daughter's sponsorship app will be cancelled and your family will have to leave the country.

2. Nothing you can do at this point.

3. If you have H&C considerations, you can start to gather proof of that in order to appeal the loss of your PR status.

 

[Leon]

So basically what happened was that the immigration officer passed you through without reporting you for not meeting the RO (residency obligation) but then as soon as you were inside, you applied to sponsor your daughter, causing a lot of red flags and bells to go off at immigration head office when you listed your address and travel history on the sponsorship form making it clear that you were far from meeting the RO.

You can now expect that at some point, you will be called in for an interview and you will have to discuss your reasons for not having met the RO and they will decide if they will let you keep your PR. It is possible that only the sponsor of your daughter will be called in and that they will forget about the spouse and other child. If that happens, the one of you who is the sponsor should simply go to the interview and try your luck. If they lose their PR and are asked to leave, they should. The other spouse who was not the sponsor might then have a chance to keep their PR and continue the stay to complete their 2 years which would bring their status back in good standing. They could then sponsor the spouse who lost their PR as well as the non-PR daughter again. Immigration can only revoke your PR if they catch you at a time that you don't meet the RO for the past 5 years. If they do not investigate a person and they manage to stay for 2 years, they will meet the RO again and will keep their PR.

If both of you are called in for an interview, you might both lose your PR and then there is nothing you can do any more.

There is a small chance that they will let you off the hook if you withdraw your sponsorship application. I am far from certain about that but in cases where people have applied to renew PR cards without meeting the RO and have even been at the point of being called in for an interview about it, immigration has accepted a withdrawal of the renewal application and backed off.

There is no fast way now to avoid anything, to keep your PR and/or to get PR for your daughter.
If you had met the RO, you would not have a problem.

 

[Msafiri]

DVR your saving grace may be that the CBSA agent in not reporting you despite you being honest with the breach will be deemed to have disregarded your breach on Humanitarian & Compassionate (H&C) grounds. How detailed was the POE interview..did the agent record many notes on their computer. Ideally you would need to see what was on file. This may be the reason that you haven't been outright reported as yet.

Despite this your sponsorship application will likely be refused. Without knowing the reasons for your absence hard to tell if this can convince CIC to again exercise H&C reasons...under case law just because one CBSA/CIC officer exercised discretion doesn't compel the next CBSA/ CIC officer to do so unless on a point of law it would be wrong not to do so i.e. if the circumstances of the case are excactly the same or very similar. In your situation they are not...you already got a get out of jail card and instead of staying under the radar you raised attention to your breach.

The rules are the rules and you may have to consider withdrawing the sponsorship applications asap. Messing around with the RO often leads to family separation but the rules are clear on the RO...they even print them on the PR Card issue letter.

What were the reasons for your absences?

 

[DVR]

Dear Leaon and Msafiri,

Thanks a lot for such a detailed response.

The reason for not meeting RO is not something we can fight for I think. It is simply a job purpose. Nothing H&C where some body was critically ill etc.

Now, I am thinking that what if:

1. We try find a company who is ready give me a Work Permit and which will allow us to stay here along with my non PR daughter? Is it possible? if yes, how to proceed to do so? are there any companies who do this?

2. If we file a fresh PR application stating all the facts?

3. H&C for appeal stating that we r quite settled here and my daughter is already going to school and we have already paid last year's taxes etc. do you think is there any hope?

appreciate your view here.

Thanks & regards,

 

[Leon]

1. We try find a company who is ready give me a Work Permit and which will allow us to stay here along with my non PR daughter? Is it possible? if yes, how to proceed to do so? are there any companies who do this?

2. If we file a fresh PR application stating all the facts?

3. H&C for appeal stating that we r quite settled here and my daughter is already going to school and we have already paid last year's taxes etc. do you think is there any hope?

1. Complicated. You can not get a work permit because you are still a PR. If you voluntarily renounce your PR, you would have to find a company willing to apply for your LMO (labour market opinion) so you can apply for a work permit. The LMO might not be approved (employer must prove that they could not find a Canadian or PR for the job and they must be offering market wages) or the work permit might not be approved (you have to show that you are not a risk to overstay). If it works out and you are accepted as a temporary worker, you could apply for your child to join you.

2. You can not file a fresh PR application because you are still PR. You can if you renounce your PR but it will take time for the processing. This is not a solution for a seamless stay in Canada for right now.

3. This will be dealt with anyway when immigration calls you in for an interview which they will do on their own time. You can not speed that up.

The only thing I can think of that you could possibly try to get your child to join you while you wait for your interview is apply for a TRP for her. It is a temporary visa like a TRV but is a special visa given to people for H&C reasons. It is often granted to children of PR's who are not PR and need to be sponsored.

 

[keesio]

DVR - Sorry to hear of your situation but you really should have listed to Leon's advice last August:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/pr-card-expires-before-the-730-days-required-t118357.0.html;msg2520347#msg2520347

I'm quite disappointed at the advice you got from the lawyers you mentioned below:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/pr-card-expires-before-the-730-days-required-t118357.0.html;msg2527734#msg2527734

Did you hire them to do the sponsorship?

 

[DVR]

Yes. I agree.

Leon has always given great advises. But, I had a situation where my daughter (3 years) could not stay and it started affecting her health without parents. Hence, we were forced to take such a risky step of applying her sponsorship. Btw, before coming here, we tried her TRV 3 times and each time rejected.

Also lawyer you are talking about is not our's. I mean we have never appointed any lawyer so far.
In fact, we are meeting one lawyer tomorrow. Let's see.

So now ...

1. I am an IT professional and hence there are some hopes that we get LMO. Let's see.
2. u r right. We need a solution for seamless stay. so this cant work.
3. Agree. I will be honest again when they call for interview.

For TRP, we discussed this option with one lawyer here in the past he denied. In fact based on his suggestion only we filed sponsorship.

Now we have are approaching a new lawyer who is assuring the positive outcome. I think he may also suggest the WP way perhaps. let's see. what happens. I will keep you all posted.

 

[keesio]

Yes. I agree.

Leon has always given great advises. But, I had a situation where my daughter (3 years) could not stay and it started affecting her health without parents. Hence, we were forced to take such a risky step of applying her sponsorship. Btw, before coming here, we tried her TRV 3 times and each time rejected.

Also lawyer you are talking about is not our's. I mean we have never appointed any lawyer so far.
In fact, we are meeting one lawyer tomorrow. Let's see.

So now ...

1. I am an IT professional and hence there are some hopes that we get LMO. Let's see.
2. u r right. We need a solution for seamless stay. so this cant work.
3. Agree. I will be honest again when they call for interview.

For TRP, we discussed this option with one lawyer here in the past he denied. In fact based on his suggestion only we filed sponsorship.

Now we have are approaching a new lawyer who is assuring the positive outcome. I think he may also suggest the WP way perhaps. let's see. what happens. I will keep you all posted.

Ok, good luck. But be careful of any lawyer who assures you of a positive outcome. Sounds like you've gotten bad advice from lawyers who were overly optimistic before...

 

[DVR]

Hi keesio,

So far we did everything on our own without lawyer. yes. we just asked one lawyer about TRP but he suggested to file sponsorship which we filed on our own.
Anyways, at this juncture we feel like appointing a lawyer for any future actions whether it is WP or new TRP or revoking my daughter's PR application etc.

Let's see .... Thanks Leon, Msafiri and rest for your great help.

 

[Msafiri]

DVR,

From my review of residency obligation related case law its noticeable that the trend towards reports with subsequent removal orders for RO breaches are primarily TD application related. I am yet to come across a case (though there likely may be at least one in the over a decade we've had the IRPA) where PR has sponsored a dependent child despite the breach, got refused, reported and removed. The approach by CIC seems to be the sponsorship is denied but CIC don't report the sponsor.

CIC is not the beast it was before. Times are changing and there is more of an aggression on dealing with PR breaches especially when Sidney get involved...after all if they can't enforce it at HQ where else eh! Remember the port officer talks to you and considers your credibility..he/she also has a short window to consider taking enforcement action and must weigh this up against the paperwork burden vis a vis the evidence on file and the need to process other passengers within his/her shift.

What I'm saying is that you will likely get the sponsorship refused but not reported. Have you considered cancelling the sponsorship with CIC, waiting say 2 months to make sure all is clear then one parent returning home to be with the child until the other parent has their PR back in good standing. Your course of action really should be determined by the value you attach to the PR and whether its loss has major implications. If you can always re-apply then its easier to be philosophical about its loss.

 

[scylla]

1. I am an IT professional and hence there are some hopes that we get LMO. Let's see.
2. u r right. We need a solution for seamless stay. so this cant work.
3. Agree. I will be honest again when they call for interview.

FYI - #1 won't work for a seamless stay. To qualify for a work permit you will first have to renounce your PR status. Once you do this - you will be asked to leave Canada. Your work permit application would happen from outside of Canada.

 

[DVR]

Dear Msafiri,

Thanks for showing some hope.
I met a lawyer yesterday. After paying CAD 100, what we got is a suggestion to go to the Student Permit route by one of the spouse getting an admission in any college for a 2 years course.
If we are reported and told to leave then we can explain that one of the spouse is already enrolled and he/she would like to apply for Student permit and once approved (only 50% chances) entire family can stay. I thought that the entire idea was a foolish as it does not guarantee the seamless stay plus huge cost involved plus long time.

Surprisingly ( or rather shockingly) lawyer was not even knowing about TRP or Work permit related options which we got it from our champions like Leon, Msafiri etc. Thanks again all the champions here.

Anyways, at this moment I am just waiting for a letter to come from CIC and if I am reported and asked to leave, we all will leave and say good bye to Canada. If I am not reported, then my spouse may leave and stay with my other daughter and I shall stay alone here and keep my PR in good standing.

Also, Msafiri, I really do not know how to take the my daughter's sponsorship application back. Now, when the damage is already done and CIC is already reviewing my status, what will be an advantage?

Anyways, I am somehow looking for such an ideal solution where

1. We all stay here seamlessly and
2. my younger daughter joins us in next 4-6 moths max (whatever the way whether PR/WP/ any other)

There should be some way .....