Pr renewal - humanitarian and compassionate prtd

[Harikrishna3]

I received my copr on april 2012 and arrived in Canada and got my pr card in Nov 2012. However I could only stay for 560ish days due to certain circumstances and my card expired. So in order to go back to Canada I applied for a prtd under h&c grounds and it got approved(rc-1 category) and is valid till may 2022. I am planning to return to Canada next month.

I was wondering how much time I need to be in Canada in order to renew my pr card. A full 2 years, or can I apply right after I land in Canada?

Also I was under 18 last time I was present in Canada so I didn't have SIN. I would like to know if my expired pr card/copr or my prtd is sufficient enough to apply for a new SIN.

 

[jakklondon]

I received my copr on april 2012 and arrived in Canada and got my pr card in Nov 2012. However I could only stay for 560ish days due to certain circumstances and my card expired. So in order to go back to Canada I applied for a prtd under h&c grounds and it got approved(rc-1 category) and is valid till may 2022. I am planning to return to Canada next month.

I was wondering how much time I need to be in Canada in order to renew my pr card. A full 2 years, or can I apply right after I land in Canada?

I don't know. I can assume that having approved travel document, you could also apply for PR card (without a risk of losing your status), but I don't know if they would issue the card right away or require you to wait for 2 years. Common sense would suggest that you would be entitled to PR card right away (since you received PTRD and H&C grounds), but you would need to check the regulations on it.

Also I was under 18 last time I was present in Canada so I didn't have SIN. I would like to know if my expired pr card/copr or my prtd is sufficient enough to apply for a new SIN.

COPR doesn't expire. If you are a valid PR status holder, you are entitled to SIN. Some provinces use bogus excuses to discriminate against PRs (Ontario, for instance, requires you to have valid PR card to issue or reactivate SIN), but this is done rather unlawfully and in violation of the PR's entitlement to PR. You may need to consult local attorney (if that is the case) and sue the government to force them provide the benefits to which you are entitled to under the law. Note: if you hold a valid travel document, you may not have to deal with this issue, but just beware.

 

[Akash20071986]

I received my copr on april 2012 and arrived in Canada and got my pr card in Nov 2012. However I could only stay for 560ish days due to certain circumstances and my card expired. So in order to go back to Canada I applied for a prtd under h&c grounds and it got approved(rc-1 category) and is valid till may 2022. I am planning to return to Canada next month.

I was wondering how much time I need to be in Canada in order to renew my pr card. A full 2 years, or can I apply right after I land in Canada?

Also I was under 18 last time I was present in Canada so I didn't have SIN. I would like to know if my expired pr card/copr or my prtd is sufficient enough to apply for a new SIN.

I am just wondering...When did you apply and your application approved as you got renewal till may 2022??

 

[zaid9199]

I received my copr on april 2012 and arrived in Canada and got my pr card in Nov 2012. However I could only stay for 560ish days due to certain circumstances and my card expired. So in order to go back to Canada I applied for a prtd under h&c grounds and it got approved(rc-1 category) and is valid till may 2022. I am planning to return to Canada next month.

I was wondering how much time I need to be in Canada in order to renew my pr card. A full 2 years, or can I apply right after I land in Canada?

Also I was under 18 last time I was present in Canada so I didn't have SIN. I would like to know if my expired pr card/copr or my prtd is sufficient enough to apply for a new SIN.

You need a valid PR document to get a SIN in Ontario. I am in the same situation. I re-entered Canada with an expired PR. I was a child when I landed and did not have a SIN. I went to apply for a SIN at ServiceCanada and they said they need a valid PR Card. I applied for a PR Card renewal in November 2020 and I am still yet to receive the card in person since it was sent for in person pickup. So I have been in Canada for a year without a SIN now. I keep explaining to IRCC that I need my card urgently to get a SIN but they don’t seem to see it that way. You can basically do nothing without it. A PR Card or valid CoPR which has been not issued for more than a year is what you need.

 

[armoured]

You need a valid PR document to get a SIN in Ontario. I am in the same situation. I re-entered Canada with an expired PR. I was a child when I landed and did not have a SIN. I went to apply for a SIN at ServiceCanada and they said they need a valid PR Card. I applied for a PR Card renewal in November 2020 and I am still yet to receive the card in person since it was sent for in person pickup. So I have been in Canada for a year without a SIN now. I keep explaining to IRCC that I need my card urgently to get a SIN but they don’t seem to see it that way. You can basically do nothing without it. A PR Card or valid CoPR which has been not issued for more than a year is what you need.

First, sympathies, that's a terrible and ridiculous position to be put in. It seems you mostly got caught up in the "PR card for pickup" requirement, which in theory is fine except that during covid, that process is basically frozen.

I don't have suggestions that I know can work - except to go to your MP, the press, immigration/refugee advocacy organisations, lawyers, whoever you can think of.

And I would say up to and including attempting to sue the government (whether writ of mandamus or other). Caveat that I am not a lawyer, but both from a legal and policy perspective, it is crazypants stupid* to deny for all practical purposes a SIN number (and effectively the right to work) to someone who is in Canada legally as a PR - which you unambiguously are. Sure, there is a reasonable requirement to establish identity and status, but it's government that is not providing you the requisite document AND not accepting the documents that you do have (when it is possible for government itself to check its own databases).

Unfortunately suing is long and costly, writ of mandamus a narrow and specific process (in which I am not sure that there is a clear "urgency" or impacts criterion).

Good luck.

*Crazypants stupid is not a defined legal term.

 

[armoured]

I received my copr on april 2012 and arrived in Canada and got my pr card in Nov 2012. However I could only stay for 560ish days due to certain circumstances and my card expired. So in order to go back to Canada I applied for a prtd under h&c grounds and it got approved(rc-1 category) and is valid till may 2022. I am planning to return to Canada next month.

I was wondering how much time I need to be in Canada in order to renew my pr card. A full 2 years, or can I apply right after I land in Canada?

Also I was under 18 last time I was present in Canada so I didn't have SIN. I would like to know if my expired pr card/copr or my prtd is sufficient enough to apply for a new SIN.

The consensus seems to be that with a formal H&C decision (as documented by the RC-1 visa), you can safely apply for PR card upon arrival. How long it takes is the question; hopefully you will avoid the "in-person pick-up" process (which is basically frozen due to covid).

As noted, for SIN, they do seem to require the PR card.

 

[Harikrishna3]

I am just wondering...When did you apply and your application approved as you got renewal till may 2022??

I applied on 29 Sept by email. But didnt send all the passports, so I sent them by Oct 3. Prtd approved on 2 Nov 2021. Got stamped passport back about a week ago.

 

[Harikrishna3]

You need a valid PR document to get a SIN in Ontario. I am in the same situation. I re-entered Canada with an expired PR. I was a child when I landed and did not have a SIN. I went to apply for a SIN at ServiceCanada and they said they need a valid PR Card. I applied for a PR Card renewal in November 2020 and I am still yet to receive the card in person since it was sent for in person pickup. So I have been in Canada for a year without a SIN now. I keep explaining to IRCC that I need my card urgently to get a SIN but they don’t seem to see it that way. You can basically do nothing without it. A PR Card or valid CoPR which has been not issued for more than a year is what you need.

Did you re-enter canada with a h&c prtd,normal prtd or by USA border?

 

[zaid9199]

First, sympathies, that's a terrible and ridiculous position to be put in. It seems you mostly got caught up in the "PR card for pickup" requirement, which in theory is fine except that during covid, that process is basically frozen.

I don't have suggestions that I know can work - except to go to your MP, the press, immigration/refugee advocacy organisations, lawyers, whoever you can think of.

And I would say up to and including attempting to sue the government (whether writ of mandamus or other). Caveat that I am not a lawyer, but both from a legal and policy perspective, it is crazypants stupid* to deny for all practical purposes a SIN number (and effectively the right to work) to someone who is in Canada legally as a PR - which you unambiguously are. Sure, there is a reasonable requirement to establish identity and status, but it's government that is not providing you the requisite document AND not accepting the documents that you do have (when it is possible for government itself to check it's own databases).

Unfortunately suing is long and costly, writ of mandamus a narrow and specific process (in which I am not sure that there is a clear "urgency" or impacts criterion).

Good luck.

*Crazypants stupid is not a defined legal term.

I really appreciate it. Believe my life bas been put on pause because of this. A lot of people I tell my story to couldn’t believe someone could be in this position. Yes, all was going smooth until I was notified of that dreaded in person pickup. The thing is I specifically wrote a letter with my renewal application explaining my situation and why I needed it urgently.

I have been in contact with my MP, but the best I get is that they can not force IRCC to act and that they are overwhelmed with processing cases now.

I tried everything I can think of except for a lawyer. Just trying to explain my position to others is an efforts on its own. I really hope no one has to ever go through this. I don’t know what else to do.

 

[zaid9199]

Did you re-enter canada with a h&c prtd,normal prtd or by USA border?

I entered through the US borders with just my CoPR and expired PR.

 

[armoured]

I have been in contact with my MP, but the best I get is that they can not force IRCC to act and that they are overwhelmed with processing cases now.

I tried everything I can think of except for a lawyer. Just trying to explain my position to others is an efforts on its own. I really hope no one has to ever go through this. I don’t know what else to do.

You need to keep going back to your MP. Several times. Be persistent (but give them a bit of time each time- you want them to think you're persistent and stubborn but not crazy).

This is NOT exclusively an IRCC issue - it is also a Service Canada/Canada Revenue Agency problem (they are asking for documents that are not strictly required, and can resolve the issue by agreeing with IRCC to check PR status).

In fact I think the stronger argument is the complaint against Service Canada/CRA - because there is not, as far as I'm aware, any statutory reason to require a PR card; government should know best of all that the Permanent Resident Card and PR status are separate things. LIkewise, I think possibly a tax or labour lawyer may be the right person to speak to - it's not directly an immigration issue.

Your MP can and should be writing to other ministers than IRCC - sorry that i don't offhand know which ministers for which right now. Write yourself to ministers and the opposition parties (other MPs) - they can find things to complain about to the government.

Also do not be shy about contacting your MPP or MLA (provincial) - workplace rules and labour are a shared responsibility, I believe, with the Federal govt. Also working people pay provincial taxes and get provincial benefits - the province can (and should!) complain if its residents are being deprived of something needed to work.

Small note: of course, some of these can't directly do anything/solve the problem. What they can do is write letters and raise the issue, and sometimes that makes a difference. A federal minister's office will usuallyhave the courtesy to write a response 9with actual content) if a provincial MP or minister or someone else of importance writes on their official letterhead. Heck, try your city councillor, too.

 

[jakklondon]

I really appreciate it. Believe my life bas been put on pause because of this. A lot of people I tell my story to couldn’t believe someone could be in this position. Yes, all was going smooth until I was notified of that dreaded in person pickup. The thing is I specifically wrote a letter with my renewal application explaining my situation and why I needed it urgently.

I have been in contact with my MP, but the best I get is that they can not force IRCC to act and that they are overwhelmed with processing cases now.

I tried everything I can think of except for a lawyer. Just trying to explain my position to others is an efforts on its own. I really hope no one has to ever go through this. I don’t know what else to do.

You will not get anywhere by trying to be nice to SIN issuing agency. It's not Pakistan, you are in Canada. That angry faced Chowdhury won't suddenly have a melting heart experience, seeing how humble and willing you are to accept his arbitrary caprices, and consequently won't feel an urge to be a bit more inclined to grant you leniency. They will simply ignore you. The only place where you can make things happen is a court of law. You must appeal to the Judge (whose authority supersedes that of Orwellian bureaucrat) , and present that Judge with facts of your case (a PR holding valid PR status and unable to get benefits that PR is entitled to), as well as the laws passed by Parliament that exist (which are the very laws that define your current status and entitlements), and show how you are being prejudiced by the unlawful actions of the agency that denies you benefit you are entitled to. You may not be able to force Canadian immigration to issue you new PR card, but you surely must be able to force any other agency that asks you to do impossible (to produce a new PR card) to reverse denial of the benefit to which you are entitled to by law. One can't condition something on you bringing Moon down from the skies. This is an axiomatic example of Kafkaesque absurd situation: you must comply with RO by IRCC. To comply, you must stay and live in Canada. To stay and live you must be able to work in Canada. To work you need a SIN card. But you will not be issued SIN card unless you get a PR card. And Canadian immigration, very one which imposes RO restriction, will not issue the PR card. Why would you even put up with it, without going to legal battle? What do you have to loose?

 

[armoured]

I re-entered Canada with an expired PR. I was a child when I landed and did not have a SIN.

I entered through the US borders with just my CoPR and expired PR.

I would underline here (more for the benefit of @Harikrishna3 ) that your case is substantially different in one respect (that I skipped over), that you did not enter with an H&C formal decision; hopefully processing of that PR card request will proceed more normally.

It sounds to me like much of your efforts have been to try to get IRCC to process the PR card more quickly (and understandably) - that's fine and worth trying of course. But you were out of compliance.

However: the issue of the SIN card and what documents Service Canada is requiring is distinct and separate. That's why speaking to a lawyer and trying through CRA/Service Canada may be required.

Without the purple prose, it boils down to: PRs who are in Canada legally have the right to work; you require SIN to do so; you are in Canada legally (even if you are not in compliance with the RO); and therefore they must give you a SIN. Since there is no question of your identity and with a COPR or expired PR card, the burden should be on government to accept that you are a PR (or inquire of other government department to confirm).

There's no reason to deny the possibility of work by this administrative collision to someone who has been admitted legally.

Good luck.

 

[jakklondon]

Immigrants! Your Motto shall be "Prosecute the persecutors". Prosecute in court of law officers within the body of the government who give you a hard time.
Remember, just as Hitler couldn't be appeased before WWII, so can't be capricious and arbitrary bullies who act like feudal lords of medieval period.
Your only way forward is non-violent challenge via legal channels. It should suffice for you to be adherents of the lawful path, in all turns of your life, so you can't be intimidated and scared by scrutiny which will come with the challenge to Orwellian triple Hermetic secret worshipping bullies who are abusing you.

 

[armoured]

Immigrants! Warning, advice from non-residents, non-citizens, who themselves claim to have 100% records of negative interactions with Canadian authorities, and who have never undertaken any kind of legal challenge and repeatedly demonstrate minimal understanding that the Canadian legal system is different than that of the country to the south - that advice is most probably useless and quite possibly injurious to your own interests. Caveat lector.

Also, people who say "Orwellian triple Hermetic secret worshipping bullies" are quite evidently either subject to obscure obsessions or simply mad.