PR expiring in a couple of months- have job offer-residing outside Canada

[HOH]

Hello Canadavisa.com community,

I would kindly ask for information please. I found no info on CIC website.
My situation is that I am residing outside Canada and North America for 4+ years and have few more moths left before my permanent residentship card officially expires as indicated on PR card. I failed to comply to 730 days within 5 years period residency requirement; and thus, theoretically lost my PR status. However, I am negotiating a job position in Ontario. Assuming that I will be rewarded a job offer,

1) What will happen at the point of entry if immigration officer determines the fact that I failed to meet residency obligations? Should my employer apply for a work permit ?
2) I will sponsor my family to join me as visitors. Once being granted entrance to Canada, I will sponsor them for PR. I am not sure if I my application going to be successful, for reasons listed above. Please advise.

Thanks

 

[HOH]

In addition,

I have received a job offer without further labor market tests on basis of permanent residentship (valid for few more months).
What will happen when my PR card expires?
Should my employer apply for a work permit or can I renew my PR based on engaged employment or ....?

Any thoughts?
Cheers

 

[Suds]

It completely depends on the officer to let you IN or NOT. But 99.9%, he/she will let you IN. They will definately ask you , the reason y you were out long. ? many faced this issue and they were lucky enough to be IN. give a shot and c before it expires.

 

[newtone]

Nothing will happen, just book your flight and enter quitely without looking anywhere

 

[AAL1984]

If you were out of Canada for more than the allowed period you are at high risk of losing PR. Immigration officers always verify if PR returning to Canada from abroad meets the residency obligation, -at least they are supposed to. They will ask you when you left Canada, and when was the last time you came back etc..these are routine questions.

You won't have any problem getting on the plane, but you can have an issue getting into the country.

Also even if you are let in you will have to renew your PR card, when you renew it they will ask your 5 yr residency history and they'll come to know you didn't meet the residency obligation.

 

[newtone]

But still they cannot do anything he is a PR and he is a resident of Canada, they'll just warn him thats all

 

[AAL1984]

But still they cannot do anything he is a PR and he is a resident of Canada, they'll just warn him thats all

Umm who told you that? PR is not a Canadian citizen, a citizen can stay out as long as he/she wants, PR can't.

From the CIC

Losing your permanent resident status

There are several ways you could lose your permanent resident status:

A permanent resident who does not meet their residency obligations could lose permanent resident status.
If convicted of a serious crime, a permanent resident may be deported from Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp#keep_status

From CIC

Keeping your permanent resident status

Your permanent resident status allows you to live in Canada, but there is also a time limit on how long you can live outside the country. To keep your status as a permanent resident, you must live in Canada for at least two years within a five-year period.

PR status is technically lost if you don't meet the residency obligation.

When you land in Canada what they want to see is that out of the last 5 years , you were in Canada for at least 730 days.

 

[newtone]

hmmm ok so what are they going to do. A PR has just arrived at a Canadian port of entry with a valid PR card, are they going to tie his hands and legs send him back on the next flight? who is going to pay for it, and why will they do it? They'll warn him possibly make a report of it. Once they let him go he has to make sure he stays in Canada and dosen't leave for a while.
PR is not a replacement for citizenship, I never disputed that, and I clearly stated he is a resident of Canada and not a citizen

 

[AAL1984]

hmmm ok so what are they going to do. A PR has just arrived at a Canadian port of entry with a valid PR card, are they going to tie his hands and legs send him back on the next flight? who is going to pay for it, and why will they do it? They'll warn him possibly make a report of it. Once they let him go he has to make sure he stays in Canada and dosen't leave for a while.
PR is not a replacement for citizenship, I never disputed that, and I clearly stated he is a resident of Canada and not a citizen

I don't think they ever tie any ones hands and legs when they send them back.

What happens is that the immigration officer will issue you a departure form, however you are allowed to appeal the decision within 30 days.

In the appeal you must show that you had an extreme humanitarian and compassionate reason for wanting to stay out, you can't use the excuse that "Oh I wanted to work abroad for 4 + years" for humanitarian and compassionate, they don't count that. If the appeal fails then you've lost your status and you are illegal and must leave Canada, if you don't and they find you, you will be deported at their expense.

This is what happened in the personal case I know of. Involved a guy working in Dubai for a few years then tried to come back to Canada, told him nope, when appeal failed he then simply left voluntarily.

 

[Leon]

Judging by peoples stories of entering Canada without meeting the residency requirements, it seems uncommon that people are reported for not meeting them and must go to appeal. It happens often that they get a stern talking to and are even told that their PR is gone but are let in anyway. If you get in without being reported, you can fix your PR status again by staying for 2 full years before you apply to renew your PR card. Immigration rules forbid them from looking at other periods than the last 5 years before you apply to renew. If you meet the residency requirements within those 5 years, you are ok. However, if you are caught on entry and reported and lose your PR, you would not be able to do that.

 

[AAL1984]

Judging by stories people also get student visas and visitor visas based on fraudulent documentation and lies, but I would never advise anyone to do so.

Also if a person were let in, they wouldn't be able to renew their PR card until they met the residency obligation, so that means they can't travel or leave the country for 2 years straight. Anyway I believe they are getting a lot stricter on this then they use to be. I would never advise any PR to take the risk of not meeting their residency obligation.

It's just anecdotal evidence, and should be taken as such but the person I knew did lose their status, and now has to reapply again from scratch.

 

[Leon]

It is true that people should never play with not meeting the residency requirements because they really could lose their PR. Say someone is banking on being able to get in because their PR card is still valid. Most likely they will but there is still the chance that they will get reported. There is also a chance that their PR card could get lost, stolen or damaged before they even attempt to enter. This would require them to apply for a travel document which they will most likely not get.

In any case, if somebody finds themselves outside Canada, not meeting the residency requirements but holding a valid PR card, they will most likely be able to get into Canada without being reported. They can use their still valid PR card to arrange their health care and drivers license and take up a job. They can stay in Canada without leaving for 2 years and then apply to renew. They can not be refused.

I used to advise people that if they didn't meet the residency requirements their PR would be gone. Then I heard countless reports of people saying that they didn't meet them but got in anyway. You say there is a high risk that people will be caught and reported. You base that on knowing one person this happened to. I can not tell you what the risk is that such people are reported but judging from what a lot of people have said, it doesn't seem like a high risk to me. In fact it seems rather low.

 

[Peterleesg]

It is true that people should never play with not meeting the residency requirements because they really could lose their PR. Say someone is banking on being able to get in because their PR card is still valid. Most likely they will but there is still the chance that they will get reported. There is also a chance that their PR card could get lost, stolen or damaged before they even attempt to enter. This would require them to apply for a travel document which they will most likely not get.

In any case, if somebody finds themselves outside Canada, not meeting the residency requirements but holding a valid PR card, they will most likely be able to get into Canada without being reported. They can use their still valid PR card to arrange their health care and drivers license and take up a job. They can stay in Canada without leaving for 2 years and then apply to renew. They can not be refused.

I used to advise people that if they didn't meet the residency requirements their PR would be gone. Then I heard countless reports of people saying that they didn't meet them but got in anyway. You say there is a high risk that people will be caught and reported. You base that on knowing one person this happened to. I can not tell you what the risk is that such people are reported but judging from what a lot of people have said, it doesn't seem like a high risk to me. In fact it seems rather low.

To AAL1984:

Everyone here would probably appreciate it if you can comment on LEON post abv as there are many who are still holding valid PR card but found themselves outside CANADA with PR residency obligation not met.

What LEON has posted is reassuring, at the same time what you have posted about a person you know who have lost his PR could have make some people despair. Let's clarify for the benefits of everyone.

 

[AAL1984]

Hey Peter, well like I said all I had was anecdotal evidence, so take it as that.

I am not arguing or disputing, I think everyone has made very valid points in this tread.

No reason to despair, the only way would be to show up at the border or airport and see what happens. I guess there are numerous factors at play ie your story, the immigration officer, etc...so show up and try.

Worst Case Scenario is that they will let you in and give you a departure form with a chance to appeal.

To Leon: I have a quick question for you, what would happen if someone attempted to travel with an expired PR card, would they be let in, have you heard any stories about that? Thanks

 

[Leon]

I have heard of a lady who had not noticed that her PR card was expired as she went on vacation. She did get a stern talking to when she came back but they did let her in. She did however meet the residency requirements and was residing in Canada.

I have also heard of a man who had PR when he was a child and had long since lost it as his family had moved to the US. He wanted to take a vacation in Canada and the immigration officers gave him a hard time saying that he has lost his PR and that he needs to talk to the Canadian embassy where he lives in the US about officially renouncing his PR. They did however not offer him just to report him for not meeting the residency requirements so he would lose it that way. He was allowed to enter Canada for his vacation. If this man had his landing documents, he might have been able to use them to get a SIN card and with that get a job in Canada. He still would have been a PR because his PR status had not officially been revoked. He could have stayed for 2 years and then applied for a PR card and they would not have been able to refuse him. However, without a valid PR card, you might have a problem, at least in some provinces, to get health care and a drivers license.

I believe they can not refuse a PR entry to Canada. Even if they believe they have lost their PR status, they can report them but must allow them in in order to appeal. The longer the person has been away from Canada, the more likely I think it is that they would get reported and an expired or no PR card might make that even more likely but still, nothing is certain.

I also remember a PR son of a family that was living in Canada. The son was studying overseas and had not yet lost his PR as he still had a chance to meet the residency requirements within the 5 years but an overzealous immigration officer took his PR card from him and told him he had lost his PR. He still let him enter Canada however. This is of course not according to the rules. If he wanted to, I am sure he could have reported the immigration officer and he could have applied for a new PR card and they would have given it to him. I do not know if he did.