PR Expired - US Border?

[BOYX]

Hello guys,

I've been lurking these forums trying to absorb as much information as I can, however I still have a few personal questions which I need addressing to.

So this is my situation: I am a high school senior who has been accepted to a couple of Canadian universities. I have always wanted to live in Canada as a child, so therefore I geared all my studies in the intention of studying at a Canadian university. I have, however, been accepted to these universities as an International student. Until recently (I mean very, very recently) I realized that I am legally a PR of Canada and that there is still a possibility of me maintaining my PR status. This is due to the fact that my family completed their landing in 2004 and have since never returned to Canada.

Now onto my questions:

Say I were to go through the US/Can border, what would be the best outcome in my case* (not being reported, reported, losing my status etc.)?

*Why I ask this is because I would like to visit my family during those two years, so would I be better off appealing?

This question also begs many other questions..

When I appeal, and assuming I win the appeal, will I be able to travel back (for only 2 weeks at a time at most) to my family? If so, how?

How long does it take for the appeal process to take it's course?

Do the days spent in Canada during the appeal count towards my residency obligations, and more importantly towards my Canadian Citizenship?

Now considering I do not get reported:

Should I apply for a PR card after exactly 730 days in Canada? If not why?

How can I prove I am a PR in the case of healthcare benefits, university, driving license etc?

Is there any way I could be reported after I have crossed the border (without being reported of course)?

Is there any way I could go back home to visit my family (again it would be around 4 weeks max throughout the year)? If so, how do I come back? Most of what I have read states I must stay for 2 years straight, thus my previous question about what decision at the border would lead to a better outcome in this case.

Do the 2 years straight in Canada before obtaining my PR card count towards my Canadian Citizenship?

Am I right in believing that my case is strong as I have been held back from Canada by my parents, due to me being a minor, and now since I am able to go to back to Canada, I will. I have also only applied to Canadian universities, therefore I assume that should further strengthen my intentions? I am asking this because not only is this the reality of the situation (As it has been somewhat of a childhood dream to live in Canada, ever since we first went there) but more so from a legal standpoint, are my reasons strong enough?

Also, finally, should I risk a TD? Would it be any different from going through the US/CAD border, in terms of going back to visit my family?


Thank you so much in advance, and apologies for the barrage of questions; I just do not want to have any gray areas in this whole process.

 

[spousalsponsee]

Hello guys,

I've been lurking these forums trying to absorb as much information as I can, however I still have a few personal questions which I need addressing to.

So this is my situation: I am a high school senior who has been accepted to a couple of Canadian universities. I have always wanted to live in Canada as a child, so therefore I geared all my studies in the intention of studying at a Canadian university. I have, however, been accepted to these universities as an International student. Until recently (I mean very, very recently) I realized that I am legally a PR of Canada and that there is still a possibility of me maintaining my PR status. This is due to the fact that my family completed their landing in 2004 and have since never returned to Canada.

Now onto my questions:

Say I were to go through the US/Can border, what would be the best outcome in my case* (not being reported, reported, losing my status etc.)?

Best case scenario is the breach of residency obligation not being detected, you can live in Canada as a PR. A big problem is whether or not you have paperwork proving your PR status. You will need to show this to any university you attend to prove you are eligible (eg for domestic tuition rates). If you don't do that, you'll need to show them a study permit (which you can't get if you're a PR). You can't apply for any new proof until you've been there for two years (and are back within the obligation requirements).

How can I prove I am a PR in the case of healthcare benefits, university, driving license etc?

You will need either a PR card or original landing paperwork. If you make it into Canada and don't already have these, any application for new ones would almost certainly result in your residency breach being detected.

Is there any way I could be reported after I have crossed the border (without being reported of course)?

Yes. Basically any dealing you have with government agencies in the next two years that involve your status - trying to prove it to universities, trying to get a travel document, trying to get a SIN, etc.

Is there any way I could go back home to visit my family (again it would be around 4 weeks max throughout the year)? If so, how do I come back? Most of what I have read states I must stay for 2 years straight, thus my previous question about what decision at the border would lead to a better outcome in this case.

Every time you cross the border, you would risk your breach being detected. You could only do this after either appealing and winning an H&C case, or after meeting your obligation and getting a new PR card.

Do the 2 years straight in Canada before obtaining my PR card count towards my Canadian Citizenship?

Yes, every day in Canada as a PR will count. You will need to be able to prove it.

Also, finally, should I risk a TD? Would it be any different from going through the US/CAD border, in terms of going back to visit my family?

That would almost certainly result in the breach being detected.

I honestly don't see a good way for you that doesn't involve challenging your status. You are by no means assured to cross the border without your breach of RO being detected, and even if you do, you then want to do things that explicitly require proof you can't get. Best option for you is likely either to own the breach, and go through a Humanitarian & Compassion application, or to voluntarily surrender your PR, and then either re-apply for it, or attend as an international student.

 

[BOYX]

Best case scenario is the breach of residency obligation not being detected, you can live in Canada as a PR. A big problem is whether or not you have paperwork proving your PR status. You will need to show this to any university you attend to prove you are eligible (eg for domestic tuition rates). If you don't do that, you'll need to show them a study permit (which you can't get if you're a PR). You can't apply for any new proof until you've been there for two years (and are back within the obligation requirements).

You will need either a PR card or original landing paperwork. If you make it into Canada and don't already have these, any application for new ones would almost certainly result in your residency breach being detected.
Yes. Basically any dealing you have with government agencies in the next two years that involve your status - trying to prove it to universities, trying to get a travel document, trying to get a SIN, etc.
Every time you cross the border, you would risk your breach being detected. You could only do this after either appealing and winning an H&C case, or after meeting your obligation and getting a new PR card.
Yes, every day in Canada as a PR will count. You will need to be able to prove it.
That would almost certainly result in the breach being detected.

I honestly don't see a good way for you that doesn't involve challenging your status. You are by no means assured to cross the border without your breach of RO being detected, and even if you do, you then want to do things that explicitly require proof you can't get. Best option for you is likely either to own the breach, and go through a Humanitarian & Compassion application, or to voluntarily surrender your PR, and then either re-apply for it, or attend as an international student.

I do have supporting documents such as my landing papers. Will that be sufficient in proving my PR status? I also remember reading somewhere that I am not legally obliged to have a pr card on me, therefore noting that the universities I have applied to are public universities, there must definitely be another way to prove my status no? Will the university report my breach to the immigration office? (assuming I go unreported?) Furthermore, will the university even question/find out about my breach?

Also, according to what I could infer from your response, getting reported and going through the appeal would be the best case right, with regards to my case (meeting family annually)?

I am also assuming you considered the worst case scenarios (rightfully so) when considering all the options right? Or is it the fact that my case does not seem valid/strong enough to win the appeal?

Cheers and thanks again for the response

 

[Rob_TO]

I do have supporting documents such as my landing papers. Will that be sufficient in proving my PR status? I also remember reading somewhere that I am not legally obliged to have a pr card on me, therefore noting that the universities I have applied to are public universities, there must definitely be another way to prove my status no? Will the university report my breach to the immigration office? (assuming I go unreported?) Furthermore, will the university even question/find out about my breach?

Also, according to what I could infer from your response, getting reported and going through the appeal would be the best case right, with regards to my case (meeting family annually)?

I am also assuming you considered the worst case scenarios (rightfully so) when considering all the options right? Or is it the fact that my case does not seem valid/strong enough to win the appeal?

When you first landed in Canada a long time ago, did your parents apply for a SIN for you? If not, you will not be able to get one until you have your new PR card. SIN office won't accept old landing papers as proof of PR status.

Cheers and thanks again for the response

I disagree with the above. You were removed from Canada as a minor, and now are trying to return to Canada at your first opportunity after reaching age 18 or so. This is one of the most common H&C reasons accepted by IRCC for being allowed to overcome the RO and keep your PR status.

The method of "sneaking" into Canada without being caught and staying 2 years, is a horrible idea in your case since you don't intend to stay here 2 years straight and want to leave/re-enter during this time to visit your family. So on some future re-entry to Canada before you have the 2 years RO back, may result in being reported and losing PR status. The older you get after age 18, and the fact you were in Canada and voluntarily left, could make a H&C claim at that time incredibly harder.

What you should probably do, is to apply for a PR Travel Document on H&C grounds. Show you were removed as a minor, and now want to move back to Canada as a PR permanently to attend school. As i said this is a very common situation, and PR TDs are approved in vast majority of cases. Once you come back to Canada with PR TD, you can then immediately apply to renew your PR card. So you will have no worries about proving your status. Just don't leave Canada again, until you have your PR card in hand.

Alternatively you could just show up at a land border, and request a hearing with CBSA/Minister's Delegate to assess your H&C reasons and give an official judgement. This would be effectively the same as having a positive PR TD, and would be able to again apply for PR card renewal once you enter Canada.

In the very small chance a PR TD was rejected (though this really shouldn't happen), you could then also appeal on the same H&C reasons. But appeal would only be a very last resort, I wouldn't expect you to need to go this far.

Do you have a SIN already? If your parents never applied for one for you all that time ago, note that you may need to wait until you have a new valid PR card to apply for SIN and work legally. SIN office will not accept old landing papers (more than 1 year old) as proof of PR status. If you did have an old SIN, you would just need to re-activate it.

 

[BOYX]

Alternatively you could just show up at a land border, and request a hearing with CBSA/Minister's Delegate to assess your H&C reasons and give an official judgement. This would be effectively the same as having a positive PR TD, and would be able to again apply for PR card renewal once you enter Canada.

Thank you so much for the in-depth response. Also a rather comforting response

My plan in any case is to go through the US border, mainly because I think it would be a bit more convenient to explain a humanitarian case in person. If you do not mind, could you elaborate a bit on the CBSA/Minister's Delegate part. How am I to request this?

Do you have a SIN already? If your parents never applied for one for you all that time ago, note that you may need to wait until you have a new valid PR card to apply for SIN and work legally. SIN office will not accept old landing papers (more than 1 year old) as proof of PR status. If you did have an old SIN, you would just need to re-activate it.

No I do not think we have a SIN card. If I were to go through the "sneaking" route, how am I to prove my pr status otherwise?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thank you so much for the in-depth response. Also a rather comforting response

My plan in any case is to go through the US border, mainly because I think it would be a bit more convenient to explain a humanitarian case in person. If you do not mind, could you elaborate a bit on the CBSA/Minister's Delegate part. How am I to request this?

The key point is that you need to get an official determination of your H&C reason on the record, so there would be no issues in applying to renew your PR card. So at the border you should tell them you are a PR not in compliance with RO, have a valid H&C reason of being removed as a minor, and request to have a H&C decision made on it by the Minister's Delegate on site. I don't know the step by step process that will actually happen here.

Simply having a CBSA officer wave you into Canada will not put anything on your record. So if you then applied to renew your PR card the visa officer processing the renewal would need to do a full assessment of your H&C reason, possibly resulting in secondary review and a very long processing time before you can get a new PR card. Having the Minister's Delegate at the border do this in advance (or by applying for PR TD in advance), should already show an approved H&C claim that overcomes your RO to whoever is processing your PR card renewal, resulting in a quicker processing time.

No I do not think we have a SIN card. If I were to go through the "sneaking" route, how am I to prove my pr status otherwise?

For getting a SIN, I believe a valid PR card is the only acceptable proof they will accept. Perhaps there is some other proof of PR status you can request from IRCC that they would accept while waiting for new PR card, however I'm not sure. I only know that your original landing papers will no longer work for SIN.

So if you snuck into Canada and intended to stay here for 2 years without bringing attention to yourself or applying to IRCC for anything, you would not have a SIN all that time so could not work, plus it would be a pain to even do taxes each year to start putting your tuition credits on your tax record.

For your university, it's up to them what they will accept as proof of PR status so call them and ask. Of course you should do whatever you can to prove PR status to them so you don't need to pay international tuition fees.

 

[Buletruck]

Definitely agree with Rob_TO on this. having the determination done ASAP alleviates a lot of the other underlying issues that not having "official" recognition brings. Health care, SIN number, drivers license all depend on having the PR card. living in Canada for 2 years without some of the basics would be an huge PITA.

 

[BOYX]

The key point is that you need to get an official determination of your H&C reason on the record, so there would be no issues in applying to renew your PR card. So at the border you should tell them you are a PR not in compliance with RO, have a valid H&C reason of being removed as a minor, and request to have a H&C decision made on it by the Minister's Delegate on site. I don't know the step by step process that will actually happen here.

Simply having a CBSA officer wave you into Canada will not put anything on your record. So if you then applied to renew your PR card the visa officer processing the renewal would need to do a full assessment of your H&C reason, possibly resulting in secondary review and a very long processing time before you can get a new PR card. Having the Minister's Delegate at the border do this in advance (or by applying for PR TD in advance), should already show an approved H&C claim that overcomes your RO to whoever is processing your PR card renewal, resulting in a quicker processing time.

For getting a SIN, I believe a valid PR card is the only acceptable proof they will accept. Perhaps there is some other proof of PR status you can request from IRCC that they would accept while waiting for new PR card, however I'm not sure. I only know that your original landing papers will no longer work for SIN.

So if you snuck into Canada and intended to stay here for 2 years without bringing attention to yourself or applying to IRCC for anything, you would not have a SIN all that time so could not work, plus it would be a pain to even do taxes each year to start putting your tuition credits on your tax record.

For your university, it's up to them what they will accept as proof of PR status so call them and ask. Of course you should do whatever you can to prove PR status to them so you don't need to pay international tuition fees.

Thank you once again for the detailed response. I will keep you guys updated. Cheers