Pr entering Canada after staying more than 3 years abroad

[The Maxx]

Hello All!
We've received a permanent residence for all our family of four in august 2010. Pr card valid until august 2015.
Then my wife, 2 children and myself returned to our country of origin to finish our affairs and return to Canada. Meanwhile, while abroad we've had another baby, who is 3 month old now and obviously not a permanent resident.
All of us plan to come to Canada in september 2013 and stay there permanently. It means, that we will be outside Canada for 3 years and 1 month within 5 years time. I think we have a good h/c reasons, because we needed to wait until our baby is a little bigger to fly and is 3 month old to get him insured and we missed only one month of pr residence requirements. I understand, that if we stay in Canada for 2 years and then apply for a pr status renewal, it'll be fine, but we can't fly under a cic radar this whole time, because we also have to sponsor our new baby from Canada(We're from visa exempt country). Do you think that they might cause us problems and revoke our pr status,only because we stayed abroad 1 month more than we should have ? Also do we have to tell them at the airport the whole truth,(that we were absent for 3 years and 1 month) to avoid later accusation of a fraud from our end ?
Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[Leon]

Being allowed to stay outside for 3 years is already generous so don't expect anyone to make an exception because it's only 1 month. You could go in August yourself and start the sponsorship of your child as you still meet the residency requirements.

 

[The Maxx]

First of all thank you Leon.
I understand that 3 years it's pretty generous, but i just want to evaluate my chances. Like i said, i think that We've got a good h.c reasons.
Now for a questions :
1. In your opinion, are these h. c reasons good enough to prevent our pr status from being revoked ?
2. If we all come together and they won't report us at the airport, would it later be revealed when we apply for a child sponsorship ?
3. Please tell us what our best options if we don't want to split our family and what exactly we should say at the airport ?
4. Even if i come alone to sponsor our child, what will that achieve ? I wiil still be outside Canada for more than 3 years and the rest of my family even more, if they join me later.
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your help.

 

[Leon]

You say HC reasons and I do not see how you could not have returned to Canada with your family during the pregnancy or even if you couldn't, if you had landed in August 2010 and went back now alone, you would have been outside Canada for exactly 3 years instead of 3 years and 1 month if you all return in September. The difference there is between meeting the residency obligation and not meeting it.

If you get an immigration officer in a bad mood, they can report you for not meeting the residency requirements as you enter Canada. If they do, you will have to appeal for your PR with your reasons and hope they are good enough.

If you are not reported, when you apply to sponsor your child, they will most likely notice from your address history that you do not meet the residency requirements and they will probably call you in for an interview to explain that.

Still.. maybe you'll get lucky

 

[The Maxx]

Thanks Leon.
Just couple more question.
Should we tell the immigration officer at the airport, that we were absent for more than 3 years and deal with the consequences right away, or if they won't ask us, we shouldn't tell. It's just I don't want to be accused later of a fraud or lying and omitting very relevant information.
If we do manage to arrive in August, still there will be 7-14 days overdue. Would they really gonna make a big deal out of it and try to revoke a pr status from a very nice family of 5 ?

 

[meyakanor]

Hi The Maxx,

That one month is the difference between being able to sponsor your baby right away AND having to wait for two more years until you meet the residency requirements again. Since you and your family became PR less than five years ago, the residency requirement is that you have to be able to still have 731 days in the first five years of your permanent residency.

If you have been out for 3 years and 1 month already, it means that the maximum you can have in the first five years would be less than 731 days (if you stay until the completion of your fifth year, you will have maybe 700 days by the end of the fifth year, which is about a month short of the requirements). So let's say you get lucky, and enter Canada without getting reported on September, and let's say you immediately apply for sponsorship.

Since you have not been a PR for more than five years, they will count if it will still be possible for you have 731 days before the completion of five years, in which case, as Leon said, they will notice that you're about 31 days short (thus, failing the residency requirements).

But let's say you get back, just before the completion of three years out of Canada, then they will let you sponsor your baby right away (assuming you won't leave at all for the next two years), since you can still meet the 731 day requirement by the completion of the fifth year.

So that one month would be the difference between being able to sponsor your baby right away on September 2013, or two years from now (assuming you get lucky and they let you in on September AND you won't leave at all for the next 731 days), until you meet the residency requirement again on September 2015!

 

[Leon]

Thanks Leon.
Just couple more question.
Should we tell the immigration officer at the airport, that we were absent for more than 3 years and deal with the consequences right away, or if they won't ask us, we shouldn't tell. It's just I don't want to be accused later of a fraud or lying and omitting very relevant information.
If we do manage to arrive in August, still there will be 7-14 days overdue. Would they really gonna make a big deal out of it and try to revoke a pr status from a very nice family of 5 ?

Like I said, immigration already thinks they are generous with the 3 years. If they start making exceptions because you are only a month over, the next guy will want an exception because he is only 2 months and the 3rd guy only 3 months etc. Basically, you must not have been outside Canada for more than 1094 days in your first 5 years as a PR. If you have more than that, no guarantees.

You say you landed in August 2010. On which day did you leave Canada again after your landing? Your days outside Canada start on the day after you left. The day you left Canada also counts as a day in Canada. I see it is now only August 3rd. If you grab the next flight, would you not meet the residency requirements? The big thing about at least you meeting them is that you can sponsor your child and if need be, lets say your whole family is reported as they enter Canada in September and they lose their appeals and their PR because they get a very strict officer, then you would be able to sponsor all of them back. However, if all of your were in that situation together, you would all lose the PR together and be asked to leave.

It's not about being a nice family, it's about having been given an opportunity and not using it. That's what the residency requirements are for. Canada doesn't want a million people walking around with PR cards in their back pocket that are valid forever regardless of living in Canada or not. I assume the reason might have something to do with in case world economy gets bad or wars break out, all of these people may decide to come to Canada at once and there would be massive unemployment. As for the not so nice families, Canada has other ways of revoking their PR's. If they are convicted of crimes, they also get the boot.

 

[The Maxx]

Thanks a lot for your answers.
Now i think, that i've counted it wrong. I wrote that we landed in August 2010, because my pr card expires on 11/8/2015, so I've counted back 5 years. But now I've checked and turns out, that we'd actually landed on 30/06/2010 and left on 16/07/2010, so our 3 years outside Canada ended on 16/07/2013. So now we don't meet the residence obligation whatsoever. In your opinion should we still try our luck, come to Canada and hope that immigration officers won't revoke our pr status and allow us later to sponsor our child even if we do not meet the residence obligation. Also, should we tell them at the airport right away, that we missed our obligations by 1 month ?

 

[Leon]

You will have to fill out your customs card anyway asking how long you were gone and they will also ask you how long you were gone. You can expect to be pulled out for an interview and asked to explain if you had good reasons for not meeting the residency requirements. You could say that you wanted to return but your wife had a high risk pregnancy and wasn't allowed to fly and that after this, the baby was too small etc. Maybe they will let you enter without reporting, maybe they will report.

If they report, you would have to do your best to present your reasons in a way that you will win your appeal. If they don't report, you can stay for 2 years. One of you should apply to sponsor the child because the child will be under visitor status and not eligible for health care for example and the one to sponsor the child will just have to face the music about how immigration will handle it. I don't think it's viable to keep the baby here on visitor status for 2 years while you wait for your PR to be back in good standing. You should make sure you have some kind of accident/emergency insurance for your child for the months it takes to sponsor. For the rest of the family, you want to have insurance for the first 3 months if you are going to a province with a 3 month wait for health care.

 

[Roomi79]

Being allowed to stay outside for 3 years is already generous so don't expect anyone to make an exception because it's only 1 month. You could go in August yourself and start the sponsorship of your child as you still meet the residency requirements.

Hi Leon!

My name is Syed and i got Canadian immigration on skilled basis through Quebec in December 2011 and i entered Canada (Quebec) with my family on May 1st 2012. We stayed there for 2 months and 10 days then went back to my country of origin where my family got U.S. immigration visa also. Now we are in USA and my U.S. nationality is due in March 2015 and i already informed the immigration Canada that we are going to USA as my job has transferred me for at least 2 years so not possible to fulfill residency requirements till that time so they sent me a letter that ok when you come back in 2015 then you can reapply for your medical cards and other benefits and took our medical cards. Also now we are traveling on our U.S. P.R. cards to Canada by road and not showing our Canadian Cards and they are not asking anything, so my question to you Leon is that if i come back to Canada in 2015 so i have complete 2 years left to fulfill the requirement of 730 days but in between i have to travel to USA also as i am in Sales profession so what will happen if my P.R. card will expire in 2017 and i will be short of some months for 730 days??? Can i complete the remaining months even my card will expire??? I know by that time i have to be in Canada and can not travel outside Canada. Also in between if i am coming to Canada by showing my U.S. PR card so should i count that period for residency purposes??? Kindly Advise! Thanks.

 

[Leon]

Hi Leon!

My name is Syed and i got Canadian immigration on skilled basis through Quebec in December 2011 and i entered Canada (Quebec) with my family on May 1st 2012. We stayed there for 2 months and 10 days then went back to my country of origin where my family got U.S. immigration visa also. Now we are in USA and my U.S. nationality is due in March 2015 and i already informed the immigration Canada that we are going to USA as my job has transferred me for at least 2 years so not possible to fulfill residency requirements till that time so they sent me a letter that ok when you come back in 2015 then you can reapply for your medical cards and other benefits and took our medical cards. Also now we are traveling on our U.S. P.R. cards to Canada by road and not showing our Canadian Cards and they are not asking anything, so my question to you Leon is that if i come back to Canada in 2015 so i have complete 2 years left to fulfill the requirement of 730 days but in between i have to travel to USA also as i am in Sales profession so what will happen if my P.R. card will expire in 2017 and i will be short of some months for 730 days??? Can i complete the remaining months even my card will expire??? I know by that time i have to be in Canada and can not travel outside Canada. Also in between if i am coming to Canada by showing my U.S. PR card so should i count that period for residency purposes??? Kindly Advise! Thanks.

If you were working for a Canadian employer and they transferred you to a full time position in the US, your days spent working in the US for this employer also count towards the PR residency requirements. Hence you meet the requirements and can renew your PR card normally when it expires.

If you did not get this job in Canada that transferred you, you could return in 2015. However, every time you re-enter Canada, you take the chance that you might get reported on entry. You would have to wait to renew your PR card until you have at least 730 days in the previous 5 years.

 

[pwkamal]

hi Leon,
i landed Canada December 2010 with my 2 kids and wife and we had to returned in January 2011 after one month stay in Canada. march 2011 my wife gave birth to a 3rd baby and my father in low passed away by an cancer.so, we had to stay in my motherland up to now.and we hope to go back again to Canada September 2013.our PR will be expired on 04.02.2016..i applied for visit visa for my new born baby twice and it was refused.
my problems are
1.how can bring my new baby with us?
2.we have enough days to PR renewal requirements, but will Canadian immigration officers make problems for landing?

 

[Leon]

If you left in January 2011, you must return no later than January 2014 if you don't want to have problems because of the residency requirements.

When your childs visa was refused, what did they give as a reason? You can instead of applying for a TRV give a letter with your situation, how you had to return to your homeland shortly before the baby was born because of a family emergency and how you need a TRP issued for your baby so that your baby can accompany you to Canada so you can sponsor it. The other option if it is completely impossible for you to get a visa for the baby would be to go yourself and leave your wife with the baby. You would go to Canada and apply to sponsor your child. Your wife can try to apply for a TRP for the baby again once you have been approved as a sponsor based on that it is great stress on your family to be separated. If she gets it, she can join you. Otherwise, she will have to wait for the PR for the baby.

 

[fkhan123]

Hi Leon,

I just noticed you have been very helpful in this conversation which is exactly relevant and applies to my situation as well. I am just four months over than 3 years i.e. I had been away from Canada for 3 years and four months. My situation is little bit different from Maxx's. I have been maintaining my PR status since Sept, 1998 and having an operational business (Sole proprietorship) in Canada. I have my spouse & kids and grand children all are Canadian Citizen. My one son is un-married (19 yrs) and a University Student in Canada. This time it took from me to be outside Canada un-unexpectedly for multiple reasons beyond my control:
1. Had to spend time with my mother in looking after her (75 yrs old) in my home country,
2. To expand and explore more opportunities for my Canadian biz, in few other South East Asian countries,
3. My biz investment deals went wrong and l lost my investment (Basically my biz partner Swindled me); this biz was in my name rather than my biz name in Canada.
4. I had to file a criminal case in the local court and the litigation is still going on, and
5. And I had to face two false legal complaints filed against me (one in the immigration and the other in local court) by my biz partner as a counterfeit to avoid my legal monetary claim toward him.
6. The complaints filed against me have been lawfully dismissed just recently, but the case I filed against him for the biz loss claim is still under litigation and I don't know how much more time it would require.

I have just noticed or re-called that I should have been returned to Canada within 3 years, but just could not. What are my options? My Canadian biz is still operational and I have been filing my return regularly. Your timely advice is much need and would appreciated much. Due to this coming Christmas my next two crucial hears for this case are on Feb 13 and Feb 27, 2017 next year.

Thanks.

 

[keesio]

Hi Leon,

I just noticed you have been very helpful in this conversation which is exactly relevant and applies to my situation as well. I am just four months over than 3 years i.e. I had been away from Canada for 3 years and four months. My situation is little bit different from Maxx's. I have been maintaining my PR status since Sept, 1998 and having an operational business (Sole proprietorship) in Canada. I have my spouse & kids and grand children all are Canadian Citizen. My one son is un-married (19 yrs) and a University Student in Canada. This time it took from me to be outside Canada un-unexpectedly for multiple reasons beyond my control:
1. Had to spend time with my mother in looking after her (75 yrs old) in my home country,
2. To expand and explore more opportunities for my Canadian biz, in few other South East Asian countries,
3. My biz investment deals went wrong and l lost my investment (Basically my biz partner Swindled me); this biz was in my name rather than my biz name in Canada.
4. I had to file a criminal case in the local court and the litigation is still going on, and
5. And I had to face two false legal complaints filed against me (one in the immigration and the other in local court) by my biz partner as a counterfeit to avoid my legal monetary claim toward him.
6. The complaints filed against me have been lawfully dismissed just recently, but the case I filed against him for the biz loss claim is still under litigation and I don't know how much more time it would require.

I have just noticed or re-called that I should have been returned to Canada within 3 years, but just could not. What are my options? My Canadian biz is still operational and I have been filing my return regularly. Your timely advice is much need and would appreciated much. Due to this coming Christmas my next two crucial hears for this case are on Feb 13 and Feb 27, 2017 next year.

Thanks.

#1 is the only reason they may accept. #2-#6 will likely not help you.

What WILL help is you have really strong ties to Canada with spouse, kids and even grandkids all in Canada as Canadian citizens. I recall some case back where someone did not meet RO but was able to keep PR because of similar strong family roots in Canada. I don't remember the details however.