PR-Child-Residency Violation-Want to Go Back Soon

[USCAN1111]

It's not the matter of whether you come in by land or air, but whether or not you have been granted PRTD.

If you come in AFTER being granted PRTD, it means that they have considered any H&C reasons surrounding your circumstances, and have decided that you should keep your PR. Based on that, you can renew your PR card immediately, and it should be approved. But applying for PRTD has risks, as illustrated by the Midha vs. Canada case.

However, if you come in unreported by land, once you apply for PR card renewal, they will know that you have been in breach of RO, and would commence the H&C consideration there.

So if you come in by land, and they do not report you, you have two choices:
1. Apply for PR card renewal, flag IRCC that you have been in breach of residency obligation, then hope they will forgive your breach (due to you being a minor and coming back on first opportunity; no guarantee)
2. Just lay low for 731 days, do not leave the country, do not engage with IRCC, and (it goes without saying) do not get charged or convicted of any crime, then you would be guaranteed (assuming no rule change) to be able to renew after 731 days of uninterrupted stay in Canada

All right, this makes a bit more sense.

What exactly happens at the border? Can you please elaborate on how "reported" works? and p.s. do you recommend I get PRTD before hand or just show up?

And just to double confirm land does not disadvantage me right? I don't want to get a flight ticket unless I absolutely need to, plus ROAD TRIP!

I just want to go back without issue. I was literarily within a mile of Canada today. It is so clooooseee, yet so faaaaar.

 

[meyakanor]

Nobody can really guarantee or provide any chance in terms of percentage. You would have to make your own decision.

I initially tended to agree with members here that PRTD would probably be your best best, since you were a minor when you were taken out of Canada by your parents, and could not have possibly made your own decision to stay in 2010. Also, with PRTD, as members here have mentioned, you can immidiately apply for PR card renewal the moment you arrive in Canada. However, the Midha vs. Canada case was scary, really scary, as it provides precendence for possibly future refusal of cases for minors in breach of RO that plan to return at first opportunity.

Your case obviously is different, but it's very similar in that your immidiate family is not in any danger, and also the fact that you would not (in their eyes) experience significant hardship due to loss of PR status (since you can just move back to the States, though one can argue that you can no longer claim to be their dependence after you reach the age of majority, and would have to move back to your country of citizenship which you hardly know).

Also, keep in mind that the whole point of going the land border route is so that you would not hopefully (if you don't get reported) have to deal with IRCC, so if you do go in unreported, then you have to stay put for 731 days uninteruppted, and you should not renew your PR card until then (which is not a problem if you plan to live in Ontario).

Again, nobody here is an expert, so treat the advice you receive here accordingly. Good luck.

 

[USCAN1111]

@meyakanor

Thanks for the info.

I agree that case scared me. After seeing mentions of the land border here I did some looking around on this forum and saw that people who live outside North America use it as a way to get into Canada because the planes will not let them on.

My situation is a bit different as I live in Buffalo. I will be taking quite a bit of stuff with me so flying doesn't really make sense. Going by car overland is out of pure convenience. My idea behind the PRTD was I get to avoid being question by immigration officers at the border. However if i could loose my PR status as a result it doesn't seem to make much sense just to avoid some extra time waiting in secondary. (I have been in secondary in the US and managed to live so I'm guessing/hoping Canadian secondary won't be that bad.

Maybe I go with my idea A which is just show up to Canada? What would you suggest?

 

[USCAN1111]

As far as where I plan to live I'm in between McGill and University of Toronto. (Though I am still waiting on acceptances from both.) So that would be either Ontario or Quebec.

 

[scylla]

Also, keep in mind that the whole point of going the land border route is so that you would not hopefully (if you don't get reported) have to deal with IRCC, so if you do go in unreported, then you have to stay put for 731 days uninteruppted, and you should not renew your PR card until then (which is not a problem if you plan to live in Ontario).

Not a problem for simply living in Canada. Likely a pretty big problem if the OP wants to attend university (regardless of the province). The university will most likely ask for a valid PR card.

 

[meyakanor]

Not a problem for simply living in Canada. Likely a pretty big problem if the OP wants to attend university (regardless of the province). The university will most likely ask for a valid PR card.

I guess I was basing it off my alma mater, University of Waterloo

https://uwaterloo.ca/graduate-studies/current-students/update-your-immigration-status

I went through the process of transitioning the status myself, and all they needed was the landing paper.

I suppose University of Toronto is similar:

http://tcard.utoronto.ca/citizenship-documentation/

though it does require an extra identity documentation from the government if you only have your landing paper.

I'm not sure about other schools though.

Ontario Driver's license and OHIP can also be obtained with just landing paper, and employment most likely would only require SIN.

 

[Rob_TO]

So I'm a little confused. I read the link and I most definitely don't want to end up in that kid's position.

@Rob_TO What course of action do you recommend I take? If it has any relevance I live in Buffalo and my friend will probably use one of the Buffalo area crossings like Peace Bridge or Niagara bridge.

That case is unique, in that it's one of the first i've ever seen where someone removed as a minor and attempting to return to Canada after turning 18, was actually rejected. In practically all other similar cases on this forum, PRs are approved for H&C reasons no problem. So it just shows that while odds may be good, it's not a guarantee.

If I was you, I would just try my luck at the border. There are several outcomes that can happen.
You may get into Canada undetected, basically meaning CBSA doesn't report you for not meeting RO. This may be due to them not noticing or bothering to inquire about your RO, or knowing you don't meet it but the CBSA officer just gives you a warning and waves you into Canada for whatever reason. If this happens, then as mentioned your safest option is to remain in Canada 2 years straight to come back into compliance with RO

If CBSA notices your RO and decides to pursue action against you, then you can certainly attempt to present your H&C case to them on the spot. This will most likely involve the Minister's Delegate at the POE, who will make a decision on your H&C reasons. If accepted (which it should be), then you would be safe to apply for PR card renewal immediately upon entering Canada.

If they deny your H&C claim, then you are allowed to enter Canada and have some time (i think 30-60 days) to decide if you want to appeal or not. If you decided to appeal, you will get temporary 1-year PR cards. If you spend the time waiting for appeal date (could be 1-2 years) integrating yourself firmly into Canadian society, and combined with the fact you already have a good H&C excuse by being removed as minor, there would probably be good odds in winning the appeal and keeping your PR status for good.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

@meyakanor

Thanks for the info.

I agree that case scared me. After seeing mentions of the land border here I did some looking around on this forum and saw that people who live outside North America use it as a way to get into Canada because the planes will not let them on.

My situation is a bit different as I live in Buffalo. I will be taking quite a bit of stuff with me so flying doesn't really make sense. Going by car overland is out of pure convenience. My idea behind the PRTD was I get to avoid being question by immigration officers at the border. However if i could loose my PR status as a result it doesn't seem to make much sense just to avoid some extra time waiting in secondary. (I have been in secondary in the US and managed to live so I'm guessing/hoping Canadian secondary won't be that bad.

Maybe I go with my idea A which is just show up to Canada? What would you suggest?

Do you have a SIN?

 

[USCAN1111]

Do you have a SIN?

I'm guessing SIN is Social Insurance Number?

I have it.

I also have landing papers+to confirm I was still a PR I got a Verification of Status document. That paper shows that as of a couple of months ago my status is Permanent Resident. It also has all my original info like when I came etc.

 

[USCAN1111]

That case is unique, in that it's one of the first i've ever seen where someone removed as a minor and attempting to return to Canada after turning 18, was actually rejected. In practically all other similar cases on this forum, PRs are approved for H&C reasons no problem. So it just shows that while odds may be good, it's not a guarantee.

If I was you, I would just try my luck at the border. There are several outcomes that can happen.
You may get into Canada undetected, basically meaning CBSA doesn't report you for not meeting RO. This may be due to them not noticing or bothering to inquire about your RO, or knowing you don't meet it but the CBSA officer just gives you a warning and waves you into Canada for whatever reason. If this happens, then as mentioned your safest option is to remain in Canada 2 years straight to come back into compliance with RO

If CBSA notices your RO and decides to pursue action against you, then you can certainly attempt to present your H&C case to them on the spot. This will most likely involve the Minister's Delegate at the POE, who will make a decision on your H&C reasons. If accepted (which it should be), then you would be safe to apply for PR card renewal immediately upon entering Canada.

If they deny your H&C claim, then you are allowed to enter Canada and have some time (i think 30-60 days) to decide if you want to appeal or not. If you decided to appeal, you will get temporary 1-year PR cards. If you spend the time waiting for appeal date (could be 1-2 years) integrating yourself firmly into Canadian society, and combined with the fact you already have a good H&C excuse by being removed as minor, there would probably be good odds in winning the appeal and keeping your PR status for good.

@Rob_TO
Thanks for your recommendation as well as explaining what will happen at the border.

So if I understand correctly, before being reported I can still make a H&C claim? (similar to the one I would make in a PRTD.) Are they obligated to consider my H&C claim or can they refuse to hear it?

Maybe I'll just do directly without getting a PRTD if there is not much of a difference. Can save $50 as well as talk to someone in person for whatever that's worth.

What's good to know is that even in worst case scenario they will still let me in. That is a huge relief.

Thanks a ton for your help.

 

[Rob_TO]

So if I understand correctly, before being reported I can still make a H&C claim? (similar to the one I would make in a PRTD.) Are they obligated to consider my H&C claim or can they refuse to hear it?

Yes, if CBSA notices your RO violation and intends to report you, then you will have a chance to explain your H&C situation and present all possible proofs. This would most likely be done to Minister's Delegate on site at the POE.

 

[USCAN1111]

Yes, if CBSA notices your RO violation and intends to report you, then you will have a chance to explain your H&C situation and present all possible proofs. This would most likely be done to Minister's Delegate on site at the POE.

@Rob_TO

So to sum up:

A: Do not get a PRTD, show up to the border, and be ready to explain my H&C reasons.

B: Once I get in there is no leaving for 731 years.

Anything else that I should know?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

 

[Rob_TO]

@Rob_TO

So to sum up:

A: Do not get a PRTD, show up to the border, and be ready to explain my H&C reasons.

Right.

B: Once I get in there is no leaving for 731 years.
.

You would only want to consider waiting for 731 days, if CBSA agent waves you into Canada unreported. In this case no official determination would be made on your H&C claim. If this happens you could also try renewing your PR card immediately but this would trigger an official assessment of your H&C claim to be accepted or rejected.

If Minister's Delegate does an official assessment of your H&C claim at border, and it's accepted, this will go on your record so you would be able to renew your PR card immediately without need to stay 731 days.

 

[Amine346@q]

@Rob_TO

So to sum up:

A: Do not get a PRTD, show up to the border, and be ready to explain my H&C reasons.

B: Once I get in there is no leaving for 731 years.

Anything else that I should know?

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.

HI, could you please give us a feedback, I'm curious to know what happened after.

 

[Tubsmagee]

HI, could you please give us a feedback, I'm curious to know what happened after.

That poster was last logged in on January 14, 2018… so not likely checking threads.