PR Card Renewal-RO not met

[rose_pa]

Hi, I have a situation and am contemplating whether to apply for card renewal.
I got my PR in July 2019 and I applied to two Universities one in Canada and one in US. The Canadian University did not gave me admission however, I got acceptance from US university. I moved to US to pursue Masters in August 2019. Meanwhile, I used to make trips to Canada back and forth. When Covid Happened, I was stuck in the US and completed graduation in 2021 April. I started finding jobs in Canada and got no offers, I got a job in the US. I stayed back in the US and again made trips when border restrictions were relaxed. I finally moved to Canada in July 2023 after getting a transfer with the same US employer for their Canadian branch. My PR card expires in Sept 2024 and my RO will be met by Feb 2025. I have a work related travel in October 2024 . My employer is ready to write a letter however, my question is, should I apply for card renewal now/closer to expiry? or should I wait until Feb 2025? Trying to weigh in the risks and cost. Further, I am a homeowner in Canada and have applied for spousal sponsorship already-would this help as now I permanently residing in Canada? Thanks in advance!!!

 

[scylla]

Hi, I have a situation and am contemplating whether to apply for card renewal.
I got my PR in July 2019 and I applied to two Universities one in Canada and one in US. The Canadian University did not gave me admission however, I got acceptance from US university. I moved to US to pursue Masters in August 2019. Meanwhile, I used to make trips to Canada back and forth. When Covid Happened, I was stuck in the US and completed graduation in 2021 April. I started finding jobs in Canada and got no offers, I got a job in the US. I stayed back in the US and again made trips when border restrictions were relaxed. I finally moved to Canada in July 2023 after getting a transfer with the same US employer for their Canadian branch. My PR card expires in Sept 2024 and my RO will be met by Feb 2025. I have a work related travel in October 2024 . My employer is ready to write a letter however, my question is, should I apply for card renewal now/closer to expiry? or should I wait until Feb 2025? Trying to weigh in the risks and cost. Further, I am a homeowner in Canada and have applied for spousal sponsorship already-would this help as now I permanently residing in Canada? Thanks in advance!!!

Strongly recommend you wait until you are in compliance with RO before you submit the PR card renewal application.

Generally speaking, it is not recommend to submit a spousal sponsorship application if you are out of compliance with RO. You must meet RO to sponsor your spouse.

 

[Ponga]

I concur with the above post. Wait until you are in compliance to apply for the renewed PR Card.

Leaving Canada in October will be a risk to you, but you will be allowed to re-enter Canada as CBSA cannot not refuse a PR. However...the officer could issue you a 44(1) report for non-compliance of meeting the Residency Obligation to maintain PR status. This would be the first domino to fall towards revoking your status, but it not automatic. You would need to attend a hearing to plead your case.

Do this:
Determine how many days you will have been in Canada on the day that you plan to leave in October of this year.
On that day, look back 5 years and calculate how many days you spent in Canada (including partial days if you drove across the border to the U.S., for example). You hopefully have detailed records of those trips when the border restrictions were relaxed (although you really had no restrictions because I believe that a PR was allowed to return to Canada during the Covid restrictions).

If the number of days is very close to 730, you'd probably be ok, but still no absolute guarantee against the 44(1) report.

 

[rose_pa]

I concur with the above post. Wait until you are in compliance to apply for the renewed PR Card.

Leaving Canada in October will be a risk to you, but you will be allowed to re-enter Canada as CBSA cannot not refuse a PR. However...the officer could issue you a 44(1) report for non-compliance of meeting the Residency Obligation to maintain PR status. This would be the first domino to fall towards revoking your status, but it not automatic. You would need to attend a hearing to plead your case.

Do this:
Determine how many days you will have been in Canada on the day that you plan to leave in October of this year.
On that day, look back 5 years and calculate how many days you spent in Canada (including partial days if you drove across the border to the U.S., for example). You hopefully have detailed records of those trips when the border restrictions were relaxed (although you really had no restrictions because I believe that a PR was allowed to return to Canada during the Covid restrictions).

If the number of days is very close to 730, you'd probably be ok, but still no absolute guarantee against the 44(1) report.

Thanks so much! My employer is ready to write a letter for October travel, would it matter?

 

[scylla]

Thanks so much! My employer is ready to write a letter for October travel, would it matter?

I don't see how the employer letter would make any difference at all.

 

[rose_pa]

I don't see how the employer letter would make any difference at all.

I don't see how the employer letter would make any difference at all.
[/QUOTE]
Thankyou!!!

 

[YVR123]

Hi, I have a situation and am contemplating whether to apply for card renewal.
I got my PR in July 2019 and I applied to two Universities one in Canada and one in US. The Canadian University did not gave me admission however, I got acceptance from US university. I moved to US to pursue Masters in August 2019. Meanwhile, I used to make trips to Canada back and forth. When Covid Happened, I was stuck in the US and completed graduation in 2021 April. I started finding jobs in Canada and got no offers, I got a job in the US. I stayed back in the US and again made trips when border restrictions were relaxed. I finally moved to Canada in July 2023 after getting a transfer with the same US employer for their Canadian branch. My PR card expires in Sept 2024 and my RO will be met by Feb 2025. I have a work related travel in October 2024 . My employer is ready to write a letter however, my question is, should I apply for card renewal now/closer to expiry? or should I wait until Feb 2025? Trying to weigh in the risks and cost. Further, I am a homeowner in Canada and have applied for spousal sponsorship already-would this help as now I permanently residing in Canada? Thanks in advance!!!

One piece of information that's missed in your post. Are you a US citizen or green card holder? Or you have/had US study and work permit?
If you have a US passport, you do not need a valid PR card to travel back. You may still be stopped and review your RO though.

 

[rose_pa]

One piece of information that's missed in your post. Are you a US citizen or green card holder? Or you have/had US study and work permit?
If you have a US passport, you do not need a valid PR card to travel back. You may still be stopped and review your RO though.

No, I am not a US citizen or GC holder. I hold Korean citizenship.

 

[YVR123]

No, I am not a US citizen or GC holder. I hold Korean citizenship.

Then would advice you not to travel until you get a new PR card.
Wait till you meet RO (plus a small buffer) before you apply for PR card renewal.

 

[Ponga]

Thanks so much! My employer is ready to write a letter for October travel, would it matter?

As mentioned, this will have no value in terms of IRCC.

A better plan, IMHO, would be to explain the situation to your employer and ask that the travel be deferred, or cancelled. Your PR status should be more valuable than your job, but....your call.

 

[armoured]

My PR card expires in Sept 2024 and my RO will be met by Feb 2025. I have a work related travel in October 2024 . My employer is ready to write a letter however, my question is, should I apply for card renewal now/closer to expiry? or should I wait until Feb 2025? Trying to weigh in the risks and cost.

Personal opinion: if I read your arithmetic right (and if you have done your arithmetic right), you will have approximately a year and a half of days (or about six months short of RO) in October or ~550 days in Canada in the last five years (eg from about OCtober 2019 to October 2024.) Maybe as many as 600 days.

That does seem to fit with you returning in about mid-2023 with some trips here in the years from 2019 to 2023.

-I think it's better not to apply for the PR card until you are in compliance.
-It would be better not to travel at all.
-Failing that, travel while your card is still valid is less risky.

But if you must do your work-related travel:
-keep it as short as feasible;
-return via a land border;
-tell the truth and explain circumstances when asked - not too much detail, just the basics, but do tell about recent history in Canada and that covid really messed up your plans. Get across you are here to stay and have a job, a mortgage, you just had to travel for work.

That's not a guarantee but CBSA agents are human and amongst other things, this is extra paperwork and if you seem honest, etc, chances are decent. (I'm not putting a number on decent)

Note: that's not advice from me to do this. There's still a chance of negative outcomes, the consequences of which are not great.

 

[rose_pa]

Personal opinion: if I read your arithmetic right (and if you have done your arithmetic right), you will have approximately a year and a half of days (or about six months short of RO) in October or ~550 days in Canada in the last five years (eg from about OCtober 2019 to October 2024.) Maybe as many as 600 days.

That does seem to fit with you returning in about mid-2023 with some trips here in the years from 2019 to 2023.

-I think it's better not to apply for the PR card until you are in compliance.
-It would be better not to travel at all.
-Failing that, travel while your card is still valid is less risky.

But if you must do your work-related travel:
-keep it as short as feasible;
-return via a land border;
-tell the truth and explain circumstances when asked - not too much detail, just the basics, but do tell about recent history in Canada and that covid really messed up your plans. Get across you are here to stay and have a job, a mortgage, you just had to travel for work.

That's not a guarantee but CBSA agents are human and amongst other things, this is extra paperwork and if you seem honest, etc, chances are decent. (I'm not putting a number on decent)

Note: that's not advice from me to do this. There's still a chance of negative outcomes, the consequences of which are not great.

Understood, thanks for the advice, yes approx 580 days in Canada till Oct.

 

[armoured]

Understood, thanks for the advice, yes approx 580 days in Canada till Oct.

Is your work trip expected to be reasonably short?

Overall as someone settled in Canada and only leaving for a short work trip, with the residency obligation less than a quarter short, and with most of those days recent, I wouldn't be tremendously concerned if I had to travel. If the trip was short.

But I'd still avoid it if I could.

Just my opinion and a guess, really. Others will have different opinions.