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PR Card Renewal outside Canada

prak11

Star Member
May 5, 2010
92
0
Hello,

I'm a Canadian Citizen and my wife is a Canadian PR. I might go out of Canada and live abroad for some time. My wife will be accompanying me. My wife's PR card will expire while she is outside Canada.
(a) Would it be fine if we apply to renew the PR card while outside the country and provide a friend's address where the PR Card needs to be sent to (Provide the current residential address as friend's address in the PR application) ? We can later collect the PR Card from our friend
(b) If option (a) is not possible is there any other way to renew a PR Card while outside Canada like using a representative or lawyer ?
(c) How can we prove the PR Status if PR Card is expired when outside Canada assuming the PR Card holder has accompanied a Canadian Citizen ?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
My response, below, is based on the current policies and practices, including the current law and current instructions for PR card applications. These are always subject to change. PRs should generally attempt to stay informed of changes, but PRs abroad should especially make a concerted effort to stay informed. The instructions and application forms, in particular, change rather often.

prak11 said:
Hello,

I'm a Canadian Citizen and my wife is a Canadian PR. I might go out of Canada and live abroad for some time. My wife will be accompanying me. My wife's PR card will expire while she is outside Canada.
(a) Would it be fine if we apply to renew the PR card while outside the country and provide a friend's address where the PR Card needs to be sent to (Provide the current residential address as friend's address in the PR application) ? We can later collect the PR Card from our friend
(b) If option (a) is not possible is there any other way to renew a PR Card while outside Canada like using a representative or lawyer ?
(c) How can we prove the PR Status if PR Card is expired when outside Canada assuming the PR Card holder has accompanied a Canadian Citizen ?
While many may successfully do what is proposed in option (a), the prudent PR will NOT attempt this (long explanation is below). Perhaps there are still some representatives (typically calling themselves consultants) who will say they can do option (b), but that usually entails a version of option (a) facilitated by the consultant, which again is NOT what a prudent PR will do. I am not familiar with how immigration lawyers are responding to requests of this sort; however, if a lawyer suggests a course of action that is essentially a version of option (a) (that is, if it entails declaring the applicant's residential address to be anywhere but where the applicant is actually living), that is, again, NOT what a prudent PR will do.

To be clear, it appears that many have successfully done some version of option (a), and perhaps many will continue to successfully do so, including some who have been assisted by a representative.

However, to be frank, what you propose to do, in option (a), is to fudge the information about the applicant's current residential address. If and when caught, IRCC tends to refer to this as misrepresentation, and even if IRCC does not impose the harsh consequences for making a material misrepresentation, at the least the PR's credibility is severely compromised. This is not good. Saying this is not good is an understatement.



Options X and Y:

For PRs who are living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse, IRCC generally expects the PR to wait until returning to stay in Canada before making an application for a new PR card. Call this option X.

There is an option Y, which is essentially a version of option X, in which the PR temporarily relocates to Canada, to in effect come to Canada to stay while making the PR card application, and then returns to accompany the PR's citizen spouse abroad after being issued a new PR card.

In the meantime, while the PR is abroad, there is no need for a valid PR card unless and until the PR intends to travel to Canada. IRCC simply expects the PR in this situation to obtain a PR Travel Document for travel to Canada.

To be eligible for a PR TD, yes the PR is required to prove compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. For a PR whose compliance is based on the exception based on accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse, the proof required to specifically show the PR has been accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse abroad is:
-- documentation showing qualified relationship (marriage certificate best; sufficient proof of common law should work)
-- documentation showing the spouse is a Canadian citizen (passport should suffice, but better to include either certificate of citizenship or if born in Canada, the birth certificate)
-- information and documentation proving cohabitation for two plus years in the preceding five years
-- copies of all pages in passports, for both spouses

Beyond that, it may be prudent to include a brief statement from the citizen spouse, a succinct narrative affirming relationship and cohabitation.

After the PR has relocated (returned to live in Canada), similar information and documentation will be needed when applying for the PR card.



Longer explanation; an Overview and some Context:

Overall, Canadian PRs who are abroad without a currently valid PR card, including those living abroad, are expected to obtain and use a PR Travel Document to make trips to Canada.

As far as IRCC is concerned:
-- the only purpose of the PR status document (PR card) is to allow the PR to travel to Canada
-- given the availability of a PR Travel Document to accomplish this, PRs living abroad do not need a PR card

This is reflected in the current IRCC policy which requires applications for a new PR card to be made in Canada. Technically, however, under the current law (statutory and regulatory provisions, as interpreted and applied by the Federal Court), IRCC cannot deny a PR card application on the sole ground that the applicant is outside Canada. Nonetheless, if the applicant is outside Canada, it appears the practical reality is that one way or another IRCC either does not process the application, delays the process until the applicant is in Canada, or at the very least imposes difficult hurdles in the process.


In other words, IRCC expects PRs living abroad to wait until they are living in Canada before they make an application for a new PR card.

That is, under current policy anyway, IRCC's position is that your PR spouse should wait until you and your spouse have returned to live in Canada before making an application for a new PR card, and that in the meantime the PR spouse should obtain and use a PR TD to make trips to Canada.

I go into this detail regarding the context to illuminate the nature of what you propose to do, which, frankly, is an attempt to circumvent IRCC policy. That is usually a bad idea.


Address history; current residential address, et al:

It is indeed common for people to use, for a variety of purposes, a home address which is not necessarily where they sleep most nights, for things like bank accounts, business transactions, registration with various entities, and so on. Even for provincial health care insurance and drivers licenses, this is common even though technically the individual is supposed to keep the provincial health care system and drivers licensing agency informed as to the individual's actual current residential address. Violations as to the latter are relatively insignificant, although one occasionally will see someone ticketed and fined for not keeping their drivers license address current, but it is a small fine without other consequences.

But, let's be frank, making an application to IRCC which declares the applicant's residential address to be somewhere other than where the applicant is actually living, is misrepresentation.

The thing is, when applying for a PR card, applicants have to declare not just their residential address, but also their address history and the dates the applicant has been outside Canada. For the PR who has been living abroad, it is overtly apparent they have been living abroad unless the PR makes some very serious misrepresentations in this information.

Some who attempt to circumvent IRCC policy in this regard will return to Canada briefly, apply while in Canada, then return abroad while the application is in process. Problem with this is that IRCC applications of this sort almost always require the applicant to affirm the applicant will inform IRCC of any changes in the information in the application. If the applicant goes abroad and thus is no longer actually residing in the address given in the application for the residential address, that too amounts to making a misrepresentation by omission.

The latter is, perhaps, gotten away with on occasion, perhaps often, perhaps even usually. But, since the only thing gained is the convenience of having a PR card, which the PR does not need to retain PR status, while the risk is being caught and incurring what can amount to severe consequences, the prudent PR will NOT attempt this.



IRCC approach to PRs generally:

Note: there is no indication that IRCC is particularly tough in its approach to PRs accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse. Probably the opposite. IRCC is probably, usually, rather accommodating if not outright generous toward such PRs. But that probably depends, at least to some extent, on how IRCC perceives the situation. In particular, if IRCC perceives someone is gaming the system, its approach will probably get a lot tougher.

Examples:

-- a PR settles and stays in Canada just long enough to qualify for and obtain citizenship, somewhere along the way sponsoring a spouse for PR, and then the couple lives abroad for many, many years, reflecting minimal ties to Canada.

-- a version of this example is an individual applies for and obtains a FSW PR visa, and this individual has an accompanying spouse who also becomes a PR, but the primary applicant never really settles in Canada, while the accompanying spouse stays in Canada long enough to become a citizen, then the couple resides abroad.

-- a Canadian citizen living abroad sponsors a spouse for PR, including in the application the required plan to relocate to live in Canada, but the couple never really returns to Canada, at least not to settle and live in Canada.


In the above examples, there is no technical violation of the law. But that does not mean IRCC will fail to notice, or will ignore, the apparent intent to game the system, to use the Canadian system to obtain Canadian PR status without really intending to settle permanently in Canada. The difference is in whether IRCC and CBSA approach and deal with the PR in their usual friendly and accommodating manner, or in a more strict, less friendly, less accommodating, perhaps even far more skeptical manner.


Practical Inconvenience If PR Does Not Have a valid PR Card:

IRCC appears to overlook just how inconvenient it is for many PRs abroad if they are not issued a valid PR card. The scope of this is expanding dramatically now that the eTA program will preclude travel to Canada by PRs with a visa-exempt passport unless they present a valid PR card.

My observations above were offered recognizing the nature and scope of the inconvenience.
 

prak11

Star Member
May 5, 2010
92
0
Thanks for the explanation. Could you please answer the following
(a) If a PR accompanies a canadian citizen abroad for a long time, does the PR status expire?
(b) On return back to Canada, would their be any issues in getting a PR TD?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
prak11 said:
Thanks for the explanation. Could you please answer the following
(a) If a PR accompanies a canadian citizen abroad for a long time, does the PR status expire?
(b) On return back to Canada, would their be any issues in getting a PR TD?
Under current law and policy (which, again, is always subject to change):

Foremost, PR status never expires.

Otherwise, there is no time limit on the exception which credits time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse. For purposes of this credit, "accompanying" is based on living together, cohabiting.

Thus, as long as the PR is living with a Canadian citizen spouse, that time counts toward complying with the PR Residency Obligation.

Generally a PR (who does not have a valid PR card) needs to obtain a PR TD in order to return to Canada. In my previous post I outlined what the PR needs to include in the PR TD application to show entitlement to the credit for time abroad accompanying a citizen spouse. There are other requirements in those applications, such as including a copy of the individual's CoPR or other proof of PR status (expired PR card for example).

See the IRCC information about applying for a PR TD; see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/travel-document/index.asp and follow links to application, instructions, and more information, and again this is always subject to change.

A PR who has been issued a PR TD should have no problems returning to Canada or entering Canada. Good idea to carry copy of the proof submitted with the PR TD application, or travel in the company of the citizen spouse.

Once in Canada, living in Canada, there should be no serious problems applying for a new PR card, and same proof as used in applying for PR TD, updated to the date of the application of course, should be sufficient.



Longer explanations (as usual):


Explaining what it means to say PR status never expires:

What it amounts to, in effect, is that the PR Residency Obligation is not self-executing. A breach of the PR RO does NOT automatically result in loss of PR status.

Thus, even for a PR who is simply abroad and not eligible for any of the exceptions, that PR's status, as a Permanent Resident, never expires.

If and when the PR abroad is in breach of the PR RO, however, that is described in the statute as rendering the PR "inadmissible."

This should not to be confused with the inadmissibility of a Foreign National (FN); explaining the distinction between a PR's inadmissibility and a FN's inadmissibility can be a bit complicated and confusing. A FN who is inadmissible will, usually, simply not be allowed to enter Canada.

In contrast, a PR must be allowed to enter Canada, even if inadmissible; being deemed inadmissible means the process is started to Remove the PR from Canada, that is, to take away the individual's PR status.

That said, a PR who is deemed inadmissible will not be issued a PR Travel Document, so actually returning to Canada can be difficult. The PR can appeal the determination of inadmissibility, and if the PR has been in Canada within the previous year then obtain a special PR TD to return to Canada during the appeal process. If the PR loses the appeal, PR status is lost.

All of which leads to the second part of your query, about returning to Canada.



Returning to Canada:

As noted, a PR is entitled to enter Canada, even a PR who is in breach of the PR RO. Even one who has not been to Canada in decades.

The problem is in getting to Canada, getting to the PoE.

The rules governing who can board an airline flight to Canada are more strict, for PRs, than the rules governing a PR's actual entry into Canada. With some exceptions, the PR without a valid PR card needs to obtain a PR TD in order to board a flight headed to Canada.

Thus, for example, those PRs who can easily travel via the U.S., can skip the PR TD process, travel to the U.S., and then travel in a private vehicle to the border, and at the border they will be entitled to enter Canada.

Again, the PR who is living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse is entitled to a credit toward the PR RO for the time spent living with the Canadian citizen spouse. The relevant time period remains the same: the preceding five years. So, the PR who is entitled to this credit should be able, without much problem, make the application for a PR TD, include in that application the proof showing entitlement to the credit for accompanying a citizen spouse, and be issued a PR TD to be used for the return flight to Canada.

Most reports of problems in doing this appear to be because the PR was too casual in making the PR TD application, failing to submit the proof which shows the PR is entitled to the credit.

Once back in Canada, as I noted in my previous post, the PR should be able to apply for a new PR card, include the updated proof of compliance with the PR RO based on credit for accompanying a citizen spouse, and get a PR card with minimal problems.
 
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neelson

Newbie
Oct 8, 2017
2
0
Under current law and policy (which, again, is always subject to change):

Foremost, PR status never expires.

Otherwise, there is no time limit on the exception which credits time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse. For purposes of this credit, "accompanying" is based on living together, cohabiting.

Thus, as long as the PR is living with a Canadian citizen spouse, that time counts toward complying with the PR Residency Obligation.

Generally a PR (who does not have a valid PR card) needs to obtain a PR TD in order to return to Canada. In my previous post I outlined what the PR needs to include in the PR TD application to show entitlement to the credit for time abroad accompanying a citizen spouse. There are other requirements in those applications, such as including a copy of the individual's CoPR or other proof of PR status (expired PR card for example).

See the IRCC information about applying for a PR TD; see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/travel-document/index.asp and follow links to application, instructions, and more information, and again this is always subject to change.

A PR who has been issued a PR TD should have no problems returning to Canada or entering Canada. Good idea to carry copy of the proof submitted with the PR TD application, or travel in the company of the citizen spouse.

Once in Canada, living in Canada, there should be no serious problems applying for a new PR card, and same proof as used in applying for PR TD, updated to the date of the application of course, should be sufficient.



Longer explanations (as usual):


Explaining what it means to say PR status never expires:

What it amounts to, in effect, is that the PR Residency Obligation is not self-executing. A breach of the PR RO does NOT automatically result in loss of PR status.

Thus, even for a PR who is simply abroad and not eligible for any of the exceptions, that PR's status, as a Permanent Resident, never expires.

If and when the PR abroad is in breach of the PR RO, however, that is described in the statute as rendering the PR "inadmissible."

This should not to be confused with the inadmissibility of a Foreign National (FN); explaining the distinction between a PR's inadmissibility and a FN's inadmissibility can be a bit complicated and confusing. A FN who is inadmissible will, usually, simply not be allowed to enter Canada.

In contrast, a PR must be allowed to enter Canada, even if inadmissible; being deemed inadmissible means the process is started to Remove the PR from Canada, that is, to take away the individual's PR status.

That said, a PR who is deemed inadmissible will not be issued a PR Travel Document, so actually returning to Canada can be difficult. The PR can appeal the determination of inadmissibility, and if the PR has been in Canada within the previous year then obtain a special PR TD to return to Canada during the appeal process. If the PR loses the appeal, PR status is lost.

All of which leads to the second part of your query, about returning to Canada.



Returning to Canada:

As noted, a PR is entitled to enter Canada, even a PR who is in breach of the PR RO. Even one who has not been to Canada in decades.

The problem is in getting to Canada, getting to the PoE.

The rules governing who can board an airline flight to Canada are more strict, for PRs, than the rules governing a PR's actual entry into Canada. With some exceptions, the PR without a valid PR card needs to obtain a PR TD in order to board a flight headed to Canada.

Thus, for example, those PRs who can easily travel via the U.S., can skip the PR TD process, travel to the U.S., and then travel in a private vehicle to the border, and at the border they will be entitled to enter Canada.

Again, the PR who is living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse is entitled to a credit toward the PR RO for the time spent living with the Canadian citizen spouse. The relevant time period remains the same: the preceding five years. So, the PR who is entitled to this credit should be able, without much problem, make the application for a PR TD, include in that application the proof showing entitlement to the credit for accompanying a citizen spouse, and be issued a PR TD to be used for the return flight to Canada.

Most reports of problems in doing this appear to be because the PR was too casual in making the PR TD application, failing to submit the proof which shows the PR is entitled to the credit.

Once back in Canada, as I noted in my previous post, the PR should be able to apply for a new PR card, include the updated proof of compliance with the PR RO based on credit for accompanying a citizen spouse, and get a PR card with minimal problems.

My situation very similar to above. My Spouse took citizenship before we left Canada in 2008. Subsequently my spouse took nonresident status. My PR card expired in 2008 and I did not renew. We lived together abroad. Is it possible to renew the PR card. Whether you provide any related service?
 

xMadMaxx

Full Member
Feb 17, 2016
44
8
51
Saudi Arabia
LANDED..........
28-04-2007
I live with a Canadian Spouse outside Canada since 2007. My PR expired in 2012 while I was outside Canada.
Now we are planning on moving back to Canada and I have applied for a PR Travel Document. Having accompanied a Canadian Citizen all the time while I was outside Canada, I did not have any problems receiving the PRTD. I actually applied for a single entry and got a 2 year multi entry PRTD!!
Since your case is similar to mine, best way for you is to apply for PRTD, and then while in Canada to renew your PR. the paper work needed for the PRTD is way more than the paper work needed for renewing your PR.
One more thing, having a PRTD actually helps ease your PR renewal process as the check up process have already been done while applying for PRTD.

Good Luck
 

neelson

Newbie
Oct 8, 2017
2
0
I live with a Canadian Spouse outside Canada since 2007. My PR expired in 2012 while I was outside Canada.
Now we are planning on moving back to Canada and I have applied for a PR Travel Document. Having accompanied a Canadian Citizen all the time while I was outside Canada, I did not have any problems receiving the PRTD. I actually applied for a single entry and got a 2 year multi entry PRTD!!
Since your case is similar to mine, best way for you is to apply for PRTD, and then while in Canada to renew your PR. the paper work needed for the PRTD is way more than the paper work needed for renewing your PR.
One more thing, having a PRTD actually helps ease your PR renewal process as the check up process have already been done while applying for PRTD.

Good Luck
Many thanks. Really appreciate your advise.
 

RustyPR

Newbie
May 24, 2018
2
0
Thanks a lot dpenabill for your detailed explanations in this thread!
I am in the same situation having moved abroad with a Canadian spouse almost 5 years ago, thus having a PR card about to expire. I want to preserve my PR status to be able to smoothly move back to Canada in ... who knows ... 5, 10 or 20 yrs. I'm glad to hear that I don't have to, and should not, fake a Canadian address and will definitely get a PRTD for the next visit.
I have another inquiry though: since I am a citizen from a European country and could quite easily get an eTA for a 'tourist stay', the question for me is whether I should get a PRTD every time I visit Canada (or with a bit of luck one that lasts for 2 yrs) or whether I could just get eTAs. I understand that the PRTDs create a good history of my status/documentation for the time when I actually need to proof that I am still an PR. But getting eTAs would make life easier. Does anyone have experience with this? Does entering Canada with an eTA put me on some kind of bad list and look like I am giving up my PR status?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,589
13,520
Thanks a lot dpenabill for your detailed explanations in this thread!
I am in the same situation having moved abroad with a Canadian spouse almost 5 years ago, thus having a PR card about to expire. I want to preserve my PR status to be able to smoothly move back to Canada in ... who knows ... 5, 10 or 20 yrs. I'm glad to hear that I don't have to, and should not, fake a Canadian address and will definitely get a PRTD for the next visit.
I have another inquiry though: since I am a citizen from a European country and could quite easily get an eTA for a 'tourist stay', the question for me is whether I should get a PRTD every time I visit Canada (or with a bit of luck one that lasts for 2 yrs) or whether I could just get eTAs. I understand that the PRTDs create a good history of my status/documentation for the time when I actually need to proof that I am still an PR. But getting eTAs would make life easier. Does anyone have experience with this? Does entering Canada with an eTA put me on some kind of bad list and look like I am giving up my PR status?
As a PR you shouldn't be able to get an ETA.
 

RustyPR

Newbie
May 24, 2018
2
0
As a PR you shouldn't be able to get an ETA.
Good point! Does that mean even after the 5 years I'll remain registered as a PR and will never be able to get an eTA (since. ..hopefully. ..my PR status will never be revoked) or is it possible to just ignore the PR status once in a while and get an eTA fir convenience? Thanks!
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,553
7,205
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
Good point! Does that mean even after the 5 years I'll remain registered as a PR and will never be able to get an eTA (since. ..hopefully. ..my PR status will never be revoked) or is it possible to just ignore the PR status once in a while and get an eTA fir convenience? Thanks!
You will remain a PR until you formally renounce your status or IRCC revokes it. This means that you will remain ineligible for an eTA unless your PR status is officially lost.

If you want to return to Canada after your PR card expires, you will need to apply for a PRTD or enter via the Canada-US land border.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,589
13,520
Hello,

I came to Canada 6 months before my PR card expired. I'm living in Quebec since then, and I'm waiting to complete 730 days requirement before applying for renewal. It has been 458 days since I landed Quebec. I'm planning to apply as soon as I complete 730 days. I wonder how long processing a renewal application will take? In addition, I'm studying at McGill and I know that processing times vary depending on how easy they reach applicants' information. So, in that case, will it be shorter than normal processing time? Although the approximate processing time is indicated as 115 days on the website, many applicants say you may wait up to 6 months. Lastly, what if I leave Canada before I get a new PR card?

Thank you in advance.

Best Regards.
Would not apply right after you reach 730 give yourself a few days for errors even a few months to attempt to avoid secondary review. I would anticipate your chances of requiring a secondary review when you renew your PR card are quite high. That would mean processing time would be closer to a year but sometime before 6-12 months but hard to estimate. If you leave you would have to land in the US and enter via the land border.
 

xocomil

Full Member
Apr 6, 2011
25
0
We applied for new PR cards while visiting Canada for a month last year. I included a covering letter detailing our situation. The new PR card application was successful, but they sent the cards to a visa office in Canada for pick up - has to be the PRs, not a family member, the sponsor, etc.

We had to get PRTD to be able to fly back and pick up the cards in person.

PITA but that's how the cookie crumbles ....
 

gfdvca

Star Member
Sep 5, 2014
66
7
Id like to share our experience with this as well.

We made a dedicated trip to Canada to submit the documents for PR renewal in country, as is required in the application. We went almost as soon as the 9-month-before-expiry renewal window opened. The application was thusly signed and dated in Canada. We returned overseas shortly after submitting our application.

In our application we made a thorough explanation of our situation working abroad, which included supporting materials from our employer confirming the work arrangement outside of Canada, the places we have lived that they have on record, etc. This, in addition to a cover letter allowing us to articulate our situation more clearly, and the attachment a detailed record of entries to and exits from Canada to support the residency requirement. The whole time we were open and honest about the situation that we were required by the employer to live and work overseas, but we made reference to the home that we still own together in Canada and this address was used in the application.

It took about 3 months for IRCC to process our application, as it was transferred from Sydney to the local office for review. They did not send the card to the address on the application. We were given an appointment date through email on relatively short notice and were required to pick up the card in person. The flights back were expensive but in the end we obtained the new card with a 5 year validity.

I know this will not be an option for everyone given the cost of two trips to Canada. However our case is proof that explaining things in an honest, transparent and thorough way can allow you to obtain a PR card renewal when there are clearly obligations to remain overseas.