Thanks! I have called a couple of times and they say my card has been approved but can't tell me where it is in the process. Hope I don't need another photo.
PR Card Renewal & New - 2022 Processing Timeline
- Thread starter GuyanaGirl
- Start date
This discussion is off-topic in this thread, which is about processing timelines. I will respond further but any additional discussion of this should be done in another topic where it would be on-topic.
I am NOT an expert and I am especially NOT qualified to give personal advice.
And, frankly, I cannot reasonably offer any "suggestion," other than to reiterate the safe approach, since how you proceed from here is very much a personal decision.
I can offer basic information. Most of which I already did in my previous post.
What I did not mention, but assumed you understood, is that you do NOT need to have a valid PR card to keep PR status. So if you can stay in Canada you can wait long enough (probably until early next year; probably two years from the date you returned to Canada) to get into RO compliance before you make an application for a new PR card. That would be the safest approach.
As I noted in my previous post, if you are now well-established in Canada, the odds are probably good that a PR card application will NOT trigger the procedures for terminating your PR status based on a breach of the RO. This is based on how close you are to complying, being well-settled in Canada, and relying on IRCC to take a liberal, lenient approach. But technically you are in breach of the RO, and it appears you will continue to be in breach until sometime in the next year.
Further informational observations:
Since you landed May 11, 2017, that means the calculation of your compliance with the Residency Obligation will be based on the date the calculation is made.
For example, if you left Canada and returned, and the Port-of-Entry officials decided to question your RO compliance, the date of that would determine the relevant five years for calculating RO compliance. Thus, if you are going through the PoE returning to Canada on, say, July 7, 2022, and the officials question your RO compliance, the five years that count would be July 7, 2017 to July 7, 2022. If you have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within that time period (July 7, 2017 to July 7, 2022) you are in breach of the RO, which could result in border officials preparing a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report and issuing a Removal Order.
Which brings up "I have 2 months buffer for Pr card Expiry!"
I do not know what "buffer" means in this context.
It is readily apparent that you are currently in breach of the RO. And is readily apparent that when you last returned to Canada from abroad you were in breach of the RO at that time; in this regard, it appears that when you returned to Canada the border officials more or less gave you the benefit of the doubt and the benefit of a lenient approach to enforcing the RO, so you were not "Reported." Which is common for PRs who are only a little in breach and during their first five years, but which should not be mistaken to mean that is always how it goes.
But, yes, having and presenting a valid PR card can improve the odds of a casual waive through at the PoE, rather than being questioned closely about RO compliance. But make no mistake: if the border officials do engage in an examination of the PR's compliance with the RO, the date the PR card expires is NOT relevant in that calculation.
RO and PR card application:
Technically a PR who is not in compliance with the RO is NOT eligible to be issued a new PR card. That is you (for now and until sometime next year). So, technically you should wait until you are in compliance BEFORE applying for a new PR card. And, frankly, that is definitely the safest approach. So if you do not need a PR card for travel for the next ten to fourteen months, basically it would be foolish to apply for a new PR card until, again, you are in RO compliance. Again, best I can discern, that will probably be sometime early next year.
PRs who are short, not in RO compliance, can apply for a new PR card relying on IRCC to approve the issuance of a new PR card based on H&C reasons, either informally or formally. The closer the PR is to meeting the RO, the better their odds. But the extent to which it APPEARS the PR is well-settled in Canada can be and typically is a big, big factor as well. You would probably have good odds but there is no guarantee, and far from it, especially since your RO calculation does not improve as the days go by.
PRs cutting-it-close but still short may sometimes go ahead and make a PR card application anticipating that by the time IRCC actually begins assessing the PR's eligibility, and RO compliance in particular, the PR will be in compliance by then. This situation does not apply to you because your RO calculation will not improve for the next many months, since as the days go by you are losing credit for days five years ago. As I tried to illuminate in my previous post, you are basically in a situation where for each new day of credit, for a day in Canada, you are also losing a day of credit: each day you are in Canada now you gain one day credit but also lose one day credit.
NOTE, IMPORTANTLY, if you leave Canada during this period of time that will mean you lose two days credit for each day, the day absent now and the day that falls outside the five year time period. So, beware, for the rest of this year if you leave Canada for, say, a month, that will change your situation from in-breach-but-close to being in substantial breach.
Overall: the SAFE approach is to wait until you are in compliance (probably some time in early 2023) with the RO BEFORE you travel abroad and BEFORE you make a PR card application. If you can continue to stay in Canada until well into next year, that is probably the approach you want to take. You do not need a valid PR card while you are living in Canada.
I am NOT an expert and I am especially NOT qualified to give personal advice.
And, frankly, I cannot reasonably offer any "suggestion," other than to reiterate the safe approach, since how you proceed from here is very much a personal decision.
I can offer basic information. Most of which I already did in my previous post.
What I did not mention, but assumed you understood, is that you do NOT need to have a valid PR card to keep PR status. So if you can stay in Canada you can wait long enough (probably until early next year; probably two years from the date you returned to Canada) to get into RO compliance before you make an application for a new PR card. That would be the safest approach.
As I noted in my previous post, if you are now well-established in Canada, the odds are probably good that a PR card application will NOT trigger the procedures for terminating your PR status based on a breach of the RO. This is based on how close you are to complying, being well-settled in Canada, and relying on IRCC to take a liberal, lenient approach. But technically you are in breach of the RO, and it appears you will continue to be in breach until sometime in the next year.
Further informational observations:
Since you landed May 11, 2017, that means the calculation of your compliance with the Residency Obligation will be based on the date the calculation is made.
For example, if you left Canada and returned, and the Port-of-Entry officials decided to question your RO compliance, the date of that would determine the relevant five years for calculating RO compliance. Thus, if you are going through the PoE returning to Canada on, say, July 7, 2022, and the officials question your RO compliance, the five years that count would be July 7, 2017 to July 7, 2022. If you have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within that time period (July 7, 2017 to July 7, 2022) you are in breach of the RO, which could result in border officials preparing a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report and issuing a Removal Order.
Which brings up "I have 2 months buffer for Pr card Expiry!"
I do not know what "buffer" means in this context.
-- Remember: the expiration date on the PR card means NOTHING in regards to calculating RO compliance. It is irrelevant.
-- Remember: PR status does not depend on having a valid PR card.
It is readily apparent that you are currently in breach of the RO. And is readily apparent that when you last returned to Canada from abroad you were in breach of the RO at that time; in this regard, it appears that when you returned to Canada the border officials more or less gave you the benefit of the doubt and the benefit of a lenient approach to enforcing the RO, so you were not "Reported." Which is common for PRs who are only a little in breach and during their first five years, but which should not be mistaken to mean that is always how it goes.
But, yes, having and presenting a valid PR card can improve the odds of a casual waive through at the PoE, rather than being questioned closely about RO compliance. But make no mistake: if the border officials do engage in an examination of the PR's compliance with the RO, the date the PR card expires is NOT relevant in that calculation.
RO and PR card application:
Technically a PR who is not in compliance with the RO is NOT eligible to be issued a new PR card. That is you (for now and until sometime next year). So, technically you should wait until you are in compliance BEFORE applying for a new PR card. And, frankly, that is definitely the safest approach. So if you do not need a PR card for travel for the next ten to fourteen months, basically it would be foolish to apply for a new PR card until, again, you are in RO compliance. Again, best I can discern, that will probably be sometime early next year.
PRs who are short, not in RO compliance, can apply for a new PR card relying on IRCC to approve the issuance of a new PR card based on H&C reasons, either informally or formally. The closer the PR is to meeting the RO, the better their odds. But the extent to which it APPEARS the PR is well-settled in Canada can be and typically is a big, big factor as well. You would probably have good odds but there is no guarantee, and far from it, especially since your RO calculation does not improve as the days go by.
PRs cutting-it-close but still short may sometimes go ahead and make a PR card application anticipating that by the time IRCC actually begins assessing the PR's eligibility, and RO compliance in particular, the PR will be in compliance by then. This situation does not apply to you because your RO calculation will not improve for the next many months, since as the days go by you are losing credit for days five years ago. As I tried to illuminate in my previous post, you are basically in a situation where for each new day of credit, for a day in Canada, you are also losing a day of credit: each day you are in Canada now you gain one day credit but also lose one day credit.
NOTE, IMPORTANTLY, if you leave Canada during this period of time that will mean you lose two days credit for each day, the day absent now and the day that falls outside the five year time period. So, beware, for the rest of this year if you leave Canada for, say, a month, that will change your situation from in-breach-but-close to being in substantial breach.
Thank you so much for the explanation. Means a lot. So here is my full dates details
Landed on and get PR on - 11 May 2017
Left Canada on - 31 Jan 2018
Came back on - 17 Feb 2021 and till then we are here
PR expiry on card - 13 Jul 2022
So if we count from today 9 June 2022 to last five years 9 June 2017 outside days are - 1113 (or 1114)
Now to meet RO , as the calculations based on last 5 years, every day my IN days count are decreased from 11th May 2017
and if we calculate from last 5 years based on today I think I meet RO around 19 Feb 2023..
so my questions are
1. am I calculating right ? 19 Feb 2023 is the date when I meet RO
2. if yes then my PR card expires on 13 Jul 2022, if I apply for renewal near on 13 Jul 2022, does that fine? I am not sure when we can apply for renewal? after expiry is fine or not?
3. from the above dates if the date I am calculating is not correct then please let me know
Many thanks in advance.
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I got AOR on May 31st, application is still in process on June 9th. Normal or should I be worried? I was well above RO days.
I will not attest to being a reliable judge of your facts. But as far as I can see, yeah, it appears you now have gist of it.
Basically you were in RO breach the day you returned here February 17, 2021 and in particular had been outside Canada for more than 1095 days preceding that day. So you cannot meet the Residency Obligation until you have stayed in Canada for TWO YEARS from that day, February 17, 2021. So, as long as you STAY here, you will be in RO compliance by February 19, 2023 (or February 17, 2023 depending on the precise count of days) . . .
. . . 730 days in Canada since your arrival February 17, 2021 does the trick; that puts you in compliance.
2. . . . then my PR card expires on 13 Jul 2022, if I apply for renewal near on 13 Jul 2022, does that fine? I am not sure when we can apply for renewal? after expiry is fine or not?
The SAFE approach is to wait to apply for a new PR card no sooner than February 2023. When you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.
As long as you stay in Canada, it is OK if your PR card expires. Yes, applying for a new PR card after a current card has expired is OK. The fact the PR card expires has NO effect on your PR status.
In some provinces (Ontario for example) the expired PR card can even be used to establish status for purposes of obtaining health care. But if you move from one province to another, for example, and need to apply for health care in a province you are not already enrolled in, some provinces (B.C. for example) require a currently valid PR card. BUT this is ONLY about qualifying for provincial benefits when making an application for those benefits. Again, the fact the PR card has expired has ZERO effect on your status as a PR.
ALTERNATIVELY, you could apply for a new PR card today. Or, around July 13, 2021. Or in September or November. That's gambling; while the risk is probably fairly low, that is betting that IRCC will see that you are well settled here now and not strictly enforce the PR RO.
The question is whether it is worth taking even a small risk. Particularly since an application relying on leniency or H&C relief has a high probability of non-routine processing leading to fairly long delays in getting a new PR card. Not much point to making a PR card application soon at the risk of losing PR status for a breach of the RO if it will take so much longer you are not likely to get the new card much sooner than if you wait until next year to apply.
As I referenced before, the two biggest factors are:
-- the calculation itself (number of days in breach; the more days in breach, the lower the odds of leniency; a small breach, good odds of leniency)
-- extent to which the PR appears to be PERMANENTLY settled in Canada
The longer you wait to make the PR card application, which means the longer you are living here, the more it should appear you are settled in Canada, here more or less permanently. So, for this factor, waiting to July 13 to apply is better than applying today; waiting to September is better than applying in July. And so on. Of course, again, waiting to mid-February is the for-sure safe approach.
Between now and January 31, 2023 the number of days you are in breach of the RO stays the same (as long as you STAY in Canada). You are approximately short by around 18 days as of today. July 13, 2022 you will still be that same number of days short, around 18. Pick any day in September, October, or in January 2023, the number of days you are short will still be around 18 days. So whether you apply for a new PR card tomorrow, or July 13, 2022, or October 28, 2022, or January 11, 2023, this factor is the same for an application made any of these days.
The latter is why your risk is higher than some PRs short-but-cutting-it-close. If you apply July 13, for example, even if they do not actually open and process the application, and conduct a formal RO compliance assessment, until two or three months later, you will still be SHORT, still technically in breach of the RO.
CAVEAT: I have offered information about an option most forum participants would not bother to note let alone elaborate. The consensus here, overwhelmingly so, is that if a PR has been outside Canada more than 1095 days when they return, and they are lucky enough to not be "Reported" when they return, they should WAIT TWO YEARS before making a PR card application. Short, simple, no contingencies, no complex arithmetic. That is, the typical response to your situation here is to state, and do so with some emphasis, what I have described as the "SAFE approach:" wait two years . . . wait until mid-February 2023.
That said, there is no shortage of anecdotal reporting from PRs who did not wait. For many, things have gone OK. For many others, it is a tale of woe they tell.
danawhitaker
Hero Member
- Aug 4, 2016
- 34
- Category........
- Visa Office......
- Ottawa
- Job Offer........
- Pre-Assessed..
- App. Filed.......
- 28-09-2016
- AOR Received.
- 21-10-2016
- File Transfer...
- 28-10-2016
- Med's Request
- Upfront
- Med's Done....
- 22-07-2016
- Interview........
- Waived
- Passport Req..
- 14-02-2017
- VISA ISSUED...
- 02-03-2017
- LANDED..........
- 05-03-2017
You can keep trying to link it and when the new application shows up in the system, it will pick up on it and allow you to link it. I was only able to see my older applications from our cards in 2017 when we landed until today, when I was finally able to link the new applications we sent for renewal. My application was mailed on May 10th, received on the 13th, and showed up in the system on ECAS as of June 8th. Just keep trying with the correct info. I was worried that I would need an application number or something unique but the system seemed to deal with it fine.
Whats the best way to prove to IRCC that you are settled? I will be completing 730 days in Canada since my last entry next week. These 730 days were continuous, without even a single exit and I plan to submit the renewal application soon after. I entered Canada on June 15, 2020 and never left afterwards (had valid PR card at that time and was 4 months short on RO, was allowed in). I would wait until 740 continuous day inside and plan to submit renewal after that. As far as I remember from the instructions, they do not ask for tax returns or some other papers to prove that you are settled. I have been working continuously in Canada since then and have also bought house, but I dont think IRCC ask for job letters/tax returns or mortgage papers to prove you are settled.
I have already gone on too much in responding to queries here that are off-topic. So I quoted this and responded in a separate, new topic. see https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/well-settled-in-canada-factor-in-ro-enforcement.769942/#post-10113793
Had a Ghost Update today (10th June) with "Application / Profile Updated" only for it to change back to "Submitted" after clicking on it.
Card sent to production for printing, should be mailed out in 2 weeks from here on.
I actually just got off the phone with IRCC. Nice agent, frustrating call. At this point, all they can say is that my application is still processing- it does not show as decision made or approved on their end. So that's new.
He did ask if anyone had ever asked for another photo. Sigh. He also said the the last inquiry an agent made on my file got sent to the wrong office.
Someday my card will come...