PR card renewal , attended interview , card not given

[ottawaapp]

Hi ,
I applied for PR card renewal on March 1 and was called for interview on April 2. My residency obligation was below 730. My current PR card expires in July, I decided to renew as I am planning a a week summer vacay at the end of July and I need to be able to fly and enter Canada with the rest of my family who are citizens after the vacation (PR card would have expired then).

At the interview , the officer asked me some questions about my job in Canada and proof of school I attended abroad (one of the reasons I gave for not meeting RO). At the end of the interview he mentioned and that I will receive my cards in couple of weeks. My question ,is I was of the opinion that I will get the new PR card at the interview. Is this normal? I asked this because the letter on in interview they emailed me had these words:

Dear Client:
This is a notification that you are invited to an interview concerning your PR status. A permanent resident
(PR) card will be prepared for you after evaluation by an officer. The PR card will be available at the
IRCC office indicated below for 180 days from the date of this notice.
If you do not come in person to the IRCC office indicated below for interview about your PR status within
180 days of the date of this notice, the PR card will be destroyed, per Immigration and Refugee Protection
Regulations (IRPR) subsection 58(3). As a result, you would need to submit a new application and fee
should you wish to apply for a PR card in the future. No extension will be provided to the 180-day
period.

Has anybody experienced this before , attended interview and told card will be mailed?

 

[armoured]

At the end of the interview he mentioned and that I will receive my cards in couple of weeks. My question ,is I was of the opinion that I will get the new PR card at the interview. Is this normal? I asked this because the letter on in interview they emailed me had these words:

My understanding is that typically a five-year card is printed and ready at the interview; if the officer decides a one-year card is more appropriate, it will be printed and sent afterwards. I can't guarantee this is what's happening though.

Consider you're basically being given a year to get back in compliance/demonstrate you are living in Canada in the intervening.

 

[ottawaapp]

My understanding is that typically a five-year card is printed and ready at the interview; if the officer decides a one-year card is more appropriate, it will be printed and sent afterwards. I can't guarantee this is what's happening though.

Consider you're basically being given a year to get back in compliance/demonstrate you are living in Canada in the intervening.

Ah! Thanks! That thought came to mind too. so it is either 5 years or 1 year? nothing in between like 3 years? The challenge is, no sure I will still meet RO when the 1 year ends (if that is what is given) as I will still need to renew again.

The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?

 

[scylla]

Ah! Thanks! That thought came to mind too. so it is either 5 years or 1 year? nothing in between like 3 years? The challenge is, no sure I will still meet RO when the 1 year ends (if that is what is given) as I will still need to renew again.

The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?

If you get a five year card then you are safe, although you'll want to make sure you meet RO going forward.

If you get a one year, that generally means IRCC is still assessing your status.

There's no 3 year. It will be either 5 or 1. Good luck.

 

[armoured]

Ah! Thanks! That thought came to mind too. so it is either 5 years or 1 year? nothing in between like 3 years? The challenge is, no sure I will still meet RO when the 1 year ends (if that is what is given) as I will still need to renew again.

The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?

You do not need an active/valid card to retain your PR status - as long as you stay in the country. You'd have done better to not apply to renew and foregone travel.

What's done is done. They are possibly assessing status. I don't know your situation. But if you value your PR status, stay in Canada as much as possible, limit travel abroad.

And I note again: although I believe the standard is that they have the 5-year card ready and send the one-year later (if they decide that's more appropriate), it's possible they'll send you a 5-year.

 

[dpenabill]

I applied for PR card renewal on March 1 and was called for interview on April 2. My residency obligation was below 730. My current PR card expires in July, I decided to renew as I am planning a a week summer vacay at the end of July and I need to be able to fly and enter Canada with the rest of my family who are citizens after the vacation (PR card would have expired then).

At the interview , the officer asked me some questions about my job in Canada and proof of school I attended abroad (one of the reasons I gave for not meeting RO). At the end of the interview he mentioned and that I will receive my cards in couple of weeks. My question ,is I was of the opinion that I will get the new PR card at the interview. Is this normal? I asked this because the letter on in interview they emailed me had these words:

I do not know what is happening here, but I apprehend your status could be at risk.

Overall, and the main thing, is to pay attention. Watch for communications from IRCC. Be sure IRCC has good contact information for you. If you get a five year PR card in the mail, relax (within limits discussed below). But otherwise watch for more information and follow through, either based on what you learn from IRCC notices, or being proactive making inquiry (if for example you do not get notice clarifying your situation within five or six weeks). Again, if you get a five year card, relax, but otherwise you probably want to avoid leaving Canada at all (except for very compelling reasons) and you may want to consider paying for a lawyer's help.

In fact, if you have concerns do not hesitate to pay for a consultation with a lawyer if you can afford that. (If you do this, be sure to bring copies of all relevant documents, including a copy of your PR card application, for the lawyer to review.)

In regards to what the situation really is, that likely depends on a lot of personal details, ranging from overall immigration history, just how much in breach of the RO you are, how strong your H&C case is, the extent of your established Canadian ties (including family), and particular factors like your age. Among other factors. Thus, for example, if you do not get a five year card, these are factors which will influence how things will go, and which you thus will want to consider in whether to risk leaving Canada even briefly. If you do not get a five year card, leaving for any significant length of time would be very risky.

Summary: If you get a five year card, relax. Otherwise, watch for notices or communications that indicate you are the subject of 44(1) Report proceedings or the subject of a Removal Order.

The Longer Read . . .

The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?

Again, I do not know, but yeah, it appears your status may be at risk, and I will address that further (see next post in particular).

BUT first . . . as @scylla observes, if you are issued a five year PR card that would clearly signal your application has NOT triggered inadmissibility proceedings, that you are not at risk for your PR being lost. If so, that'd be good. (And if you were not challenged much at all about RO compliance at the Port-of-Entry, during your most recent return to Canada, no guarantee but that could be a positive sign your circumstances favour allowing you to keep PR status, and thus be issued a five year card.)

If Issued Five Year PR card; Emphasis on IF:

In that event, the main thing would be to comply with the Residency Obligation "going forward." It appears this could be problematic since you are planning to travel outside Canada before staying here long enough to get into compliance with the RO. Remember, even with a brand new PR card your RO is calculated based on days in Canada within the previous five years. So, for example, if you are returning to Canada in September this year, even if you have a new PR card that IRCC mails you soon, when you arrive here in September your RO depends on how many days you have been here between September 2020 and when you arrive in September 2025. If you are not in RO compliance, border officials could conduct inadmissibility proceedings resulting in a Removal Order, a decision terminating PR status (subject to appeal).

As a practical matter, presenting a recently issued PR card at the Port-of-Entry has very good odds of a waive through, no RO compliance questions. So relatively short trips outside Canada probably would not trigger RO enforcement at the PoE, but as long as you are not in RO compliance (not in Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years as of the date you are examined at the PoE) there is a risk. That risk increases the longer the absence.

You probably have (again, if sent a five year card) even a little more flexibility than that because to get a new five year PR card it is likely that an officer has made a positive determination allowing you to keep PR status based on H&C considerations. That will carry positive weight in subsequent RO compliance examinations. Here too, nonetheless, until you have been here long enough to comply with the RO, the risks increase the longer you are outside Canada.

Overall, if issued a five year card AND going forward you are mostly living here in Canada, working or going to school in Canada, you are safe if you stay and probably safe if your travel outside Canada is limited to infrequent short trips.

But that all depends on a positive outcome in this interview resulting in being issued a five year PR card. That is possible. I cannot say what the odds of that are. But it appears there is a real risk otherwise. But perhaps a fair chance of this, nonetheless, a positive H&C decision allowing you to keep PR status despite the RO breach.

The Longer Read Part II . . . to be continued . . .

 

[dpenabill]

The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?

Back to . . . "The main concern I want to allay is my PR is not being taken away?" The Longer Read Part II:

It is common for PRs to come away from interactions like an interview without clearly understanding what happened, what will happen next, what their status is, what they should be prepared for, what they might need to do. Anecdotal reporting suggests IRCC officials are notoriously imprecise, leaving clients unsure about things if not outright confused. What officials say in an interview can be as indefinite as the communication you received to attend the interview (containing boilerplate only some of which is applicable to you, and otherwise containing conditionals, that is if-then statements that can be difficult to understand what they mean for you in particular).

My concern, on your behalf, is that if you came away from this interview with a distinct concern that your PR may be at risk, that's a clue, more than a hint. That said, how much at risk depends (again) on a lot of personal details, ranging from overall immigration history, just how much in breach of the RO you are, how strong your H&C case is, the extent of your established Canadian ties (including family), particular factors like your age, among other factors.

One-year PR card:

The challenge is, no sure I will still meet RO when the 1 year ends (if that is what is given) as I will still need to renew again.

If you are issued a one-year PR card that will almost certainly mean you are the subject of inadmissibility proceedings, most likely "the subject of a report prepared under subsection 44(1)" (IRPA). The quote here is from Regulation section 54(2)(b) IRPR, which is one of the two potentially applicable reasons for which you might be issued a one-year PR card, the other potentially applicable reason would be if a Removal Order is issued (that would be under Regulation 54(2)(c) IRPR); you would get specific notice of this including notice of your right of appeal. The other reasons why a one-year card might be issued are not at all likely applicable to you.

The outcome of these proceedings will determine if you lose PR status or get to keep PR status. If, for example, a 44(1) is prepared following this interview (I would think you got notice of such report if it was prepared before or attendant the interview, but I am not sure), you should be issued a one-year PR card pending what happens next.

Part of why I do not know just what is happening is that I cannot discern whether your interview was with

-- an official/agent deciding whether to approve your PR card application (and thus issue the five year card), or whether to prepare a 44(1) Report (and thus issue a one-year card); or​

-- an IRCC officer acting in the role of a Minister's delegate reviewing a 44(1) Report (prepared based on the content of your PR card application) and deciding whether to issue a Removal Order (and issue a one-year card pending your right to appeal) or set aside that 44(1) Report for H&C reasons (which should result in being issued a five year PR card, not a one-year card)​

Note: we are currently going through a transition in the wake of the somewhat recent implementation of automated (AI) triage of PR card applications, and we just plain do not have much information, yet, and almost no anecdotal reporting, yet, that illuminates much about the impact of this on particular procedures in RO non-compliance cases.

In any event, if you are issued a one-year PR card, you are most likely the subject of inadmissibility proceedings, whatever stage they are at. So, whether you will get a new card when this one expires will depend on the outcome of these proceedings, and indeed, how long the one-year card will actually be valid could depend on these proceedings. If there is a Removal Order and you lose the appeal in less than a year, the card will no longer be valid. If you get a favourable decision on your H&C case, you could be issued a five year card. If the proceedings are still pending in a year, you would be entitled to another one year card.

Obviously this differs some from what @scylla and @armoured have posted about one-year PR cards. I don't think we disagree much relative to the gist of it, that a one-year card means your status is still being assessed, for example, and staying in Canada in the meantime, demonstrating "you are living in Canada," is an important factor in how things will turn out.

But what their observations seem to leave out is that if issued the one-year card, again that means you are most likely the subject of inadmissibility proceedings, and just staying here in the meantime will not guarantee a positive outcome in the end. You may have already provided sufficient H&C reasons that will lead to a positive outcome, a decision allowing you to keep PR status despite the breach of the RO, but if you are issued a one-year card maybe not. A one-year PR card could signal it is time to get a lawyer involved.

 

[ottawaapp]

You do not need an active/valid card to retain your PR status - as long as you stay in the country. You'd have done better to not apply to renew and foregone travel.

What's done is done. They are possibly assessing status. I don't know your situation. But if you value your PR status, stay in Canada as much as possible, limit travel abroad.

And I note again: although I believe the standard is that they have the 5-year card ready and send the one-year later (if they decide that's more appropriate), it's possible they'll send you a 5-year.

Thank you @armoured @Sylla @Dipenabill

 

[scylla]

Thank you @armoured @Sylla @Dipenabill

Good luck and let us know how it goes. I agree with everything everyone else has said.

If you get a five year card, that will be good news.

If you get a one year card, very different situation and agree you are then at the point where it will be a good idea to consult a lawyer and also you will want to avoid travel if retaining PR is your priority.

Good luck again.

 

[armoured]

Thank you @armoured @Sylla @Dipenabill

Are you now over 21 years of age?