PR Card Processing Times as per CIC website

[PMM]

Hi

Are you saying IRCC staff worked on CERB applications? Regarding sensitive information, that is a cop out. If financial firms subject to far more onerous banking regulations and securities laws can figure out a way to securely transmit information and work remotely, it should be possible for IRCC to do the same. If that's the reason being offered, sounds like they never put in place a proper business continuity plan.

1. Except that banks/security companies don't access foreign countries police and Canadian security systems.

 

[prash42]

Hi



1. Except that banks/security companies don't access foreign countries police and Canadian security systems.

And IRCC cannot have a handful of staff coming into work to handle that part of all applications? Given other essential services are functioning in Canada, IRCC can surely do it for 10% of their work which involves liaison with foreign countries.

Look, we can debate this till the cows come home. If IRCC leadership is committed to finding a solution, they will. My grouse is not with IRCC rank and file, who I'm sure will do what the leadership decides. In most situations in life, some people and some organizations find solutions, other people and other organizations point to reasons why it can't be done.

 

[dpenabill]

. . . Perhaps I have higher expectations of what it is to be a public servant

Not sure I follow. You seemed to be expressing a very different expectation in your previous post . . .

And therein lies the answer. Job security means they can sit on their backsides, blame it on COVID, not give a damn, and still get paid.

. . . the latter being a rather low expectation.

 

[prash42]

Not sure I follow. You seemed to be expressing a very different expectation in your previous post . . .


. . . the latter being a rather low expectation.

Correct, hoped for a lot, but got very little. The hope was that IRCC would be different from a typical monopoly / protected class of workers.

If your response is to find inconsistencies in my views, or justify the collapse in IRCC's productivity, I have nothing further to say. I'm just a regular guy, and would be happy to be proven wrong by a responsive and productive IRCC. We can all choose to pick nits, or look at the big picture.

 

[dpenabill]

Correct, hoped for a lot, but got very little. The hope was that IRCC would be different from a typical monopoly / protected class of workers.

If your response is to find inconsistencies in my views, or justify the collapse in IRCC's productivity, I have nothing further to say. I'm just a regular guy, and would be happy to be proven wrong by a responsive and productive IRCC. We can all choose to pick nits, or look at the big picture.

What is happening is what it is. The "collapse in IRCC's productivity" requires no justification, and for sure not by me. IRCC itself acknowledges, and explicitly so states, it is not able to process applications normally at this time. No real mystery there.

You recently have said your "grouse is not with IRCC rank and file," so I probably misunderstood your earlier post which seemed to accuse those who work at IRCC of deliberately sitting "on their backsides," because they "can blame it on COVID, not give a damn, and still get paid," but I hope and have the sense that most Canadians, including those in civil service, have higher standards than that.

Wherein lies the answer to the current imbroglio? My sense is the answer is largely rooted in avoiding even domestic travel let alone international travel for now, and otherwise waiting for things to get back to the new normal, whatever the new normal will be.

Otherwise, whatever the answer is, I would discourage gratuitously disparaging the "rank and file" in IRCC. And thus it is good to see you have clarified your remarks in this regard. Sorry for thinking you may have been capriciously throwing about insults at ordinary Canadians.

 

[VeryCommonSense]

Wherein lies the answer to the current imbroglio? My sense is the answer is largely rooted in avoiding even domestic travel let alone international travel for now, and otherwise waiting for things to get back to the new normal, whatever the new normal will be.

A trip is either essential or not. Non-essential travelling is restricted regardless of the status. What is left is essential. The answer could not be rooted in avoiding unavoidable trips.

 

[dpenabill]

Wherein lies the answer to the current imbroglio? My sense is the answer is largely rooted in avoiding even domestic travel let alone international travel for now, and otherwise waiting for things to get back to the new normal, whatever the new normal will be.

A trip is either essential or not. Non-essential travelling is restricted regardless of the status. What is left is essential. The answer could not be rooted in avoiding unavoidable trips.

I do not portend to know how this or that individual can best navigate the current situation. I know we (personally) have already had to make some difficult decisions. I apprehend many others are facing far more difficult decisions than me.

What I do recognize is that the current situation imposes some rather severe, and in some respects draconian limitations in what individuals can do.

Those who are waiting for IRCC to send them a renewed PR card, are probably in for a rather long wait (with perhaps some exceptions). Nothing to be gained by dreaming IRCC is suddenly going to solve things and quickly be issuing and delivering new PR cards.

The complaining aside, unfortunately you are spot on, more than a few are quite likely facing some very tough navigating going forward. And perhaps some serious prioritizing in their own personal affairs.

After all, it really is not true that there is a hard and fast distinction between what is essential, or "unavoidable," and that which is not essential. Right now, for example, the transport of certain goods, like foods, is considered "essential." That hardly compares to some of the other situations in which people are confronted by a compelling need to be somewhere other than where they are.

This is why in large part I bristle with many of the repeated assertions that a PR card is necessary for traveling abroad. That is not true. Even if it is true that the long term consequences for going abroad without a valid PR card can vary from nothing serious to, for some, very serious consequences, the lack of a PR card is not what prohibits a PR from leaving Canada. It may discourage traveling. And by a lot. But the lack of a PR card does NOT preclude traveling abroad . . . individuals have a choice, and for some this can be a very hard choice.

If the travel is truly "unavoidable," that is saying the trip must be made. And that can involve making a decision with serious consequences. So yes, making the decision to make a trip, for some, may require making some heart-wrenching choices, subject to some serious consequences.

One can rail against IRCC for making these decisions more difficult. One can rail against the fates for inflicting a pandemic at this stage of one's life.

But the reality is that many, many people are faced with some of these choices. Is the need to go abroad more compelling, a higher priority, than keeping PR status? This is real. Real decision-making is on the line for more than a few.

Not easy to balance a compelling reason to travel and the risk of being stuck abroad. I do not envy those in this situation. I grasp its gravity.

I have been accused of being unsympathetic, even heartless, about this. Which hurts. I grasp what is happening and the hardship so many face. I feel their pain. I've been there. I have missed the funerals for children due to an inability to travel. It is something that is not only excruciatingly painful when it is happening, but something that haunts one for the rest of one's life. Been there. Doing that.

But insults flung at our civil servants will not make the hard choices so many are faced with any easier. Distractions and diversions will not offer much illumination or insight for those who are struggling with just knowing what their options are.

The reality is that many should focus on making the best choices they can without including travel plans for a good while to come. Sure, some will not be able to wait. Some will have to travel and suffer whatever collateral consequences that might result. Unfortunately. Hard, hard choices. That's what happens in a crisis. That's what rational, sensible people have to deal with. Knowing that for some there are no good choices, the best option sometimes being the one that results in the lesser harm. Knowing this does not make it any easier. But dodging this risks obfuscating what really needs to be considered before making those choices.

As I repeat, again and again, IRCC is not concealing what it is doing: they've told us, renewal PR card applications are a low priority and but for perhaps a lucky few who manage to get urgent processing, PRs without a valid PR card or whose PR card will soon expire, it is not likely they will get a new one for a long while now. Best most can do is make decisions accordingly.

Sure, they can do things like try contacting their MP in the meantime. But in terms of real life decision-making, that is not going to solve the issues they are facing right now.

I get the sense there is a lot of shoot-the-messenger sentiment afloat around here. Hopefully that remains merely metaphorical.

 

[prash42]

This post is not about IRCC, and I'm not seeking to argue but to share my thinking. It is a somewhat philosophical personal take, having observed Canada as a newcomer. I was attracted to Canada's transparent immigration points system, and clear process. Breath of fresh air compared to the hellhole that is the US H-1B and green card system, where it matters not even if one has an Ivy education. Honored to call Canada my country, though I'm still a year or more away from citizenship. Canadians are warm and welcoming, rule of law and property rights are clear, the air and water are clean - all things that cannot be taken for granted in many parts of the world, including my home India.

Yet I worry that Canada does not move decisively enough to compete in a global economy. The situation with IRCC is a benign example (after all, one can reasonably argue all governments and their civil services move at a lumbering pace), but also highlights a relaxed Canadian attitude to adapting to change. COVID is bringing about a previously unthinkable level of clarity on who/what are truly value-added, and who/what are just along for the ride. For IRCC, I would say aim to emulate a Singapore, because Canada needs productive immigrants (desperately, if you look at the numbers closely). For now, Canada is somewhat protected because American skilled immigration policy and the USCIS are unspeakably dysfunctional. But the day our giant neighbor to the south fixes this, it will be game-over in our war for talent.

 

[jake84]

I do not portend to know how this or that individual can best navigate the current situation. I know we (personally) have already had to make some difficult decisions. I apprehend many others are facing far more difficult decisions than me.

What I do recognize is that the current situation imposes some rather severe, and in some respects draconian limitations in what individuals can do.

Those who are waiting for IRCC to send them a renewed PR card, are probably in for a rather long wait (with perhaps some exceptions). Nothing to be gained by dreaming IRCC is suddenly going to solve things and quickly be issuing and delivering new PR cards.

The complaining aside, unfortunately you are spot on, more than a few are quite likely facing some very tough navigating going forward. And perhaps some serious prioritizing in their own personal affairs.

After all, it really is not true that there is a hard and fast distinction between what is essential, or "unavoidable," and that which is not essential. Right now, for example, the transport of certain goods, like foods, is considered "essential." That hardly compares to some of the other situations in which people are confronted by a compelling need to be somewhere other than where they are.

This is why in large part I bristle with many of the repeated assertions that a PR card is necessary for traveling abroad. That is not true. Even if it is true that the long term consequences for going abroad without a valid PR card can vary from nothing serious to, for some, very serious consequences, the lack of a PR card is not what prohibits a PR from leaving Canada. It may discourage traveling. And by a lot. But the lack of a PR card does NOT preclude traveling abroad . . . individuals have a choice, and for some this can be a very hard choice.

If the travel is truly "unavoidable," that is saying the trip must be made. And that can involve making a decision with serious consequences. So yes, making the decision to make a trip, for some, may require making some heart-wrenching choices, subject to some serious consequences.

One can rail against IRCC for making these decisions more difficult. One can rail against the fates for inflicting a pandemic at this stage of one's life.

But the reality is that many, many people are faced with some of these choices. Is the need to go abroad more compelling, a higher priority, than keeping PR status? This is real. Real decision-making is on the line for more than a few.

Not easy to balance a compelling reason to travel and the risk of being stuck abroad. I do not envy those in this situation. I grasp its gravity.

I have been accused of being unsympathetic, even heartless, about this. Which hurts. I grasp what is happening and the hardship so many face. I feel their pain. I've been there. I have missed the funerals for children due to an inability to travel. It is something that is not only excruciatingly painful when it is happening, but something that haunts one for the rest of one's life. Been there. Doing that.

But insults flung at our civil servants will not make the hard choices so many are faced with any easier. Distractions and diversions will not offer much illumination or insight for those who are struggling with just knowing what their options are.

The reality is that many should focus on making the best choices they can without including travel plans for a good while to come. Sure, some will not be able to wait. Some will have to travel and suffer whatever collateral consequences that might result. Unfortunately. Hard, hard choices. That's what happens in a crisis. That's what rational, sensible people have to deal with. Knowing that for some there are no good choices, the best option sometimes being the one that results in the lesser harm. Knowing this does not make it any easier. But dodging this risks obfuscating what really needs to be considered before making those choices.

As I repeat, again and again, IRCC is not concealing what it is doing: they've told us, renewal PR card applications are a low priority and but for perhaps a lucky few who manage to get urgent processing, PRs without a valid PR card or whose PR card will soon expire, it is not likely they will get a new one for a long while now. Best most can do is make decisions accordingly.

Sure, they can do things like try contacting their MP in the meantime. But in terms of real life decision-making, that is not going to solve the issues they are facing right now.

I get the sense there is a lot of shoot-the-messenger sentiment afloat around here. Hopefully that remains merely metaphorical.

Gosh, how dramatic lol. Take a deep breath sweetie

 

[VeryCommonSense]

I do not portend to know how this or that individual can best navigate the current situation. I know we (personally) have already had to make some difficult decisions. I apprehend many others are facing far more difficult decisions than me.

What I do recognize is that the current situation imposes some rather severe, and in some respects draconian limitations in what individuals can do.

Those who are waiting for IRCC to send them a renewed PR card, are probably in for a rather long wait (with perhaps some exceptions). Nothing to be gained by dreaming IRCC is suddenly going to solve things and quickly be issuing and delivering new PR cards.

The complaining aside, unfortunately you are spot on, more than a few are quite likely facing some very tough navigating going forward. And perhaps some serious prioritizing in their own personal affairs.

After all, it really is not true that there is a hard and fast distinction between what is essential, or "unavoidable," and that which is not essential. Right now, for example, the transport of certain goods, like foods, is considered "essential." That hardly compares to some of the other situations in which people are confronted by a compelling need to be somewhere other than where they are.

This is why in large part I bristle with many of the repeated assertions that a PR card is necessary for traveling abroad. That is not true. Even if it is true that the long term consequences for going abroad without a valid PR card can vary from nothing serious to, for some, very serious consequences, the lack of a PR card is not what prohibits a PR from leaving Canada. It may discourage traveling. And by a lot. But the lack of a PR card does NOT preclude traveling abroad . . . individuals have a choice, and for some this can be a very hard choice.

If the travel is truly "unavoidable," that is saying the trip must be made. And that can involve making a decision with serious consequences. So yes, making the decision to make a trip, for some, may require making some heart-wrenching choices, subject to some serious consequences.

One can rail against IRCC for making these decisions more difficult. One can rail against the fates for inflicting a pandemic at this stage of one's life.

But the reality is that many, many people are faced with some of these choices. Is the need to go abroad more compelling, a higher priority, than keeping PR status? This is real. Real decision-making is on the line for more than a few.

Not easy to balance a compelling reason to travel and the risk of being stuck abroad. I do not envy those in this situation. I grasp its gravity.

I have been accused of being unsympathetic, even heartless, about this. Which hurts. I grasp what is happening and the hardship so many face. I feel their pain. I've been there. I have missed the funerals for children due to an inability to travel. It is something that is not only excruciatingly painful when it is happening, but something that haunts one for the rest of one's life. Been there. Doing that.

But insults flung at our civil servants will not make the hard choices so many are faced with any easier. Distractions and diversions will not offer much illumination or insight for those who are struggling with just knowing what their options are.

The reality is that many should focus on making the best choices they can without including travel plans for a good while to come. Sure, some will not be able to wait. Some will have to travel and suffer whatever collateral consequences that might result. Unfortunately. Hard, hard choices. That's what happens in a crisis. That's what rational, sensible people have to deal with. Knowing that for some there are no good choices, the best option sometimes being the one that results in the lesser harm. Knowing this does not make it any easier. But dodging this risks obfuscating what really needs to be considered before making those choices.

As I repeat, again and again, IRCC is not concealing what it is doing: they've told us, renewal PR card applications are a low priority and but for perhaps a lucky few who manage to get urgent processing, PRs without a valid PR card or whose PR card will soon expire, it is not likely they will get a new one for a long while now. Best most can do is make decisions accordingly.

Sure, they can do things like try contacting their MP in the meantime. But in terms of real life decision-making, that is not going to solve the issues they are facing right now.

I get the sense there is a lot of shoot-the-messenger sentiment afloat around here. Hopefully that remains merely metaphorical.

You emphasize the choices faced by individuals, when there are none for essential travelling. The authorities, however, are making wrong choices, in my opinion.

Human body is a vessel for COVID. These vessels are travelling now. Following orders, on medical duty or otherwise doing essential trips. They have no more discretion over their destination than the cargo crossing US/Canada border or oil in tankers. The authorities can either make a choice to let these vessels board the plane and proceed into Canada directly, or make a choice to extend their essential travels. If their trips are extended, these vessels are more likely to arrive to Canada full of COVID. Currently, the authorities are not offering any solutions and effectively force these "vessels without choice" to spread the disease.