PR card holders entering Canada permanently but close to end of 3 years from soft landing.

[soulred]

Hello,

Q1: Me and my wife did soft landing on March 6th 2020 and returned to US via road on March 9th. We received PR cards shortly after.
Now we are planning to permanently relocate to Canada in the month of Feb 2023 so that we can complete 730 days at stretch before March 5th 2025. If we attempt to enter after spending 2 years and 11 months outside, will we be flagged or denied entry?

We now have a 5 month old baby (delivered in US), while wife also went through a risky pregnancy with a surgery in 2nd trimester. Hence we could not move earlier.

Q2 : Is there a way we can get an extension on the deadline of 5 years?
Q3 : Can we enter Canada on say July 2023 (thats 3 years and 4 months after landing, we wont complete RO) and later somehow still seek a successful extension of PR given the pandemic + pregnancy hampered most of our efforts to successfully move?

Please advise. Thanks!

 

[scylla]

Hello,

Q1: Me and my wife did soft landing on March 6th 2020 and returned to US via road on March 9th. We received PR cards shortly after.
Now we are planning to permanently relocate to Canada in the month of Feb 2023 so that we can complete 730 days at stretch before March 5th 2025. If we attempt to enter after spending 2 years and 11 months outside, will we be flagged or denied entry?

We now have a 5 month old baby (delivered in US), while wife also went through a risky pregnancy with a surgery in 2nd trimester. Hence we could not move earlier.

Q2 : Is there a way we can get an extension on the deadline of 5 years?
Q3 : Can we enter Canada on say July 2023 (thats 3 years and 4 months after landing, we wont complete RO) and later somehow still seek a successful extension of PR given the pandemic + pregnancy hampered most of our efforts to successfully move?

Please advise. Thanks!

1) You won't be denied entry. If you re-enter Canada and are not compliant with the residency obligation at the time you enter Canada (i.e. have been outside of Canada for more than 3 years), it's possible you could be reported by CBSA which would trigger a process to review and potentially revoke your PR status.
2) No.
3) You would not seek an extension. If you enter after being outside of Canada for more than 3 years and you are not reported by CBSA, you would need to live in Canada for 2 years straight to meet the residency obligation and only then appy to renew your PR cards.

 

[armoured]

Q1: Me and my wife did soft landing on March 6th 2020 and returned to US via road on March 9th. We received PR cards shortly after.
Now we are planning to permanently relocate to Canada in the month of Feb 2023 so that we can complete 730 days at stretch before March 5th 2025. If we attempt to enter after spending 2 years and 11 months outside, will we be flagged or denied entry?
...
Please advise. Thanks!

If you enter while you are in compliance, i.e. when you have been outside of Canada for a total of less than 1095 days since landing (during the first five years after landing), you are in compliance and will not have any problems at entry. (You may get asked questions, just tell the truth of course).

Strongly recommend getting here as far in advance of that three year anniversary as possible. You will then have a buffer allowing at least some travel should something come up. Keep in mind that down the road you will eventually need to apply for PR card renewal, and being in compliance (wiht some buffer) means you should not be without a PR card (or at least not long).

A significant share of the problem cases seen here are those who planned to return earlier and then ... things came up, they arrived or family or work contingencies came up, and it got complicated. Even in cases where someone is out of compliance and has to travel, informal leniency is more likely when time in Canada is longer and obviously well-settled.

 

[Cassiano]

Hello,

Q1: Me and my wife did soft landing on March 6th 2020 and returned to US via road on March 9th. We received PR cards shortly after.
Now we are planning to permanently relocate to Canada in the month of Feb 2023 so that we can complete 730 days at stretch before March 5th 2025. If we attempt to enter after spending 2 years and 11 months outside, will we be flagged or denied entry?

We now have a 5 month old baby (delivered in US), while wife also went through a risky pregnancy with a surgery in 2nd trimester. Hence we could not move earlier.

Q2 : Is there a way we can get an extension on the deadline of 5 years?
Q3 : Can we enter Canada on say July 2023 (thats 3 years and 4 months after landing, we wont complete RO) and later somehow still seek a successful extension of PR given the pandemic + pregnancy hampered most of our efforts to successfully move?

Please advise. Thanks!

you have an extra ingredient.
you have to meet your residence obligations (R.O.) to sponsor your baby
you'd better renunce your permanente residence and apply again
remember Permanent residence means LIVE PERMANENT.
BONNE CHANCE

 

[armoured]

you have an extra ingredient.
you have to meet your residence obligations (R.O.) to sponsor your baby
you'd better renunce your permanente residence and apply again

The first part of this is a good point that I'd missed: to sponsor baby should be compliant with residency obligation.

The second part: the OP is not yet out of compliance, so would be weird to renounce at this point.

BUT: definitely means that OP or spouse really,really should return to Canada to stay before getting out of compliance.

 

[dpenabill]

Q1: Me and my wife did soft landing on March 6th 2020 and returned to US via road on March 9th. We received PR cards shortly after.
Now we are planning to permanently relocate to Canada in the month of Feb 2023 so that we can complete 730 days at stretch before March 5th 2025. If we attempt to enter after spending 2 years and 11 months outside, will we be flagged or denied entry?

In addition to observations by @armoured and @scylla . . . in addition to a little more questioning than routine, you may be advised or even admonished about complying with the Residency Obligation, and even if a note about this is put on your GCMS records (which some will call a "flag") that is no big deal . . . as long as you stay in compliance.

We now have a 5 month old baby (delivered in US), while wife also went through a risky pregnancy with a surgery in 2nd trimester. Hence we could not move earlier.

Q2 : Is there a way we can get an extension on the deadline of 5 years?
Q3 : Can we enter Canada on say July 2023 (thats 3 years and 4 months after landing, we wont complete RO) and later somehow still seek a successful extension of PR given the pandemic + pregnancy hampered most of our efforts to successfully move?

As others noted, there are NO extensions.

Generally, however, there is a significant amount of leeway allowed for new PRs BUT that comes with some big cautions:

-- no guarantees; once the PR is in breach of the RO, there is a risk of RO enforcement action​

-- if the last absence was for three years or more, there is no way to get back into RO compliance without staying two straight years, which can be a long time to not travel outside Canada at all​

-- there is a tendency for a small breach to slide into a big breach; note, for example your example about coming to Canada in July, which is at least 3 years and four months after landing and sliding toward a big enough breach to significantly elevate the risks of RO enforcement action when you arrive​

-- as noted by @Cassiano, to be eligible to sponsor the child you need to be in RO compliance; here as well, generally there is a significant amount of leeway allowed for PRs clearly settled in Canada and only a little short of RO compliance; but if you have been outside Canada for three years so there is no way to get into RO compliance without staying a full two years, a sponsorship application before staying long enough to cure the breach could trigger a RO compliance examination​

you'd better renunce your permanente residence and apply again

The second part: the OP is not yet out of compliance, so would be weird to renounce at this point.

It is more than "weird."

Even if the OP passes the 1095 days abroad since landing threshold which constitutes being in breach of the RO, leeway in enforcement of the RO is likely enough to mean it will generally be worthwhile trying to keep current PR status, and generally will be way better than renouncing and reapplying. This depends in large part on how big the breach is, but for PRs in their first five years it appears that the scales lean toward leeway even if the breach is by several months (but less is better, a lot better).

While it is true that a PR in breach of the RO MIGHT encounter RO compliance proceedings triggered by a sponsorship application, if the breach is small and the PR gets settled in Canada before making the application, the odds appear to be that is NOT likely, that the sponsorship application and the PR's status will be OK. Better to get here before being in breach, for sure, and not take chances.

Note that a U.S. citizen, as the OP's child is, should be easily allowed into Canada as a visitor, and then allowed extensions of visitor status pending a sponsorship application. This does not get the child health care coverage in the meantime, so whether the child is healthy enough the parents can afford to pay for care in the meantime could be a significant factor in deciding how to handle this.

 

[armoured]

Hello everyone,
I applied for urgent pr card renewal. I attached residency of obligation but I just double check it I don’t need to attch because I was only 100 days out of canada .are they going to return it ? Or ask me to reapply? Or my case will get complicated? Please advise

What do you mean, you attached residency of oblgation?

 

[Saima2022]

What do you mean, you attached residency of oblgation?

Yes I attached residency of obligation. But I only left for 100 days in last 5 years .

 

[armoured]

Yes I attached residency of obligation. But I only left for 100 days in last 5 years .

I do not know what you mean when you write 'residency of obligation.' Perhaps you could refer to specific section of the form.

 

[soulred]

Thanks a lot for detailed responses. I have a few followup questions.

As @dpenabill mentioned:

-- if the last absence was for three years or more, there is no way to get back into RO compliance without staying two straight years, which can be a long time to not travel outside Canada at all

So if we are ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering, would we be RO compliant then and can apply for extension? Only risk here is the entry itself as we are then entering after 3+ years of soft landing?

Also, Can I sponsor my baby while we all are in US? Or do we have to move to canada to sponsor? Current wait times are 18+ months hence asking if we can start it asap

 

[Ponga]

Thanks a lot for detailed responses. I have a few followup questions.

As @dpenabill mentioned:

-- if the last absence was for three years or more, there is no way to get back into RO compliance without staying two straight years, which can be a long time to not travel outside Canada at all

So if we are ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering, would we be RO compliant then and can apply for extension? Only risk here is the entry itself as we are then entering after 3+ years of soft landing?

Also, Can I sponsor my baby while we all are in US? Or do we have to move to canada to sponsor? Current wait times are 18+ months hence asking if we can start it asap

As mentioned, you must be in compliance with your R.O. to sponsor your baby. You also must be in Canada to do so, since you are not a Canadian citizen.
[source]:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/spouse-partner-children/eligibility.html

You can’t sponsor someone if you’re a permanent resident living outside Canada.

 

[dpenabill]

This goes long and perhaps into more detail than needed.

The shorter version is not complicated. The sooner you get to Canada the lower the risks. Getting here before you breach the RO is the safe approach. If you cannot do that, there are still good odds of no problem at the border if you get here in one to three months over three years abroad since landing, the odds declining past that but still likely fair to good for up to four to six months in breach. BUT once you are in breach, getting waived through at the border does not eliminate a range of other difficulties, including potential risks, such as not being able to travel abroad even briefly without encountering risk of RO enforcement, and the big concern here, being able to sponsor the child.

As to sponsoring child:

-- WAIT to make sponsorship application until you are IN Canada to stay, and the more clearly settled in Canada for the long term the better​

-- Safest to ONLY do this while in compliance with the RO (see below for more nuanced discussion of making this application despite being short of RO compliance)​

Make no mistake: the overall best way to navigate going forward is to get here BEFORE you breach the RO. Despite fairly good odds of leniency in RO enforcement, if you can get here in time to avoid a breach of the RO that will minimize the risks and outright avoid some issues. Big one, for example, is if at least one of you is able to get to Canada to stay before being in breach of the RO, that PR can sponsor the child right away.

​

NOTE: The manner in which some *rules* are applied or enforced is fixed, definite. For some others there is a range in which they can be applied with some flexibility or leniency.

The Longer Read:

-- if the last absence was for three years or more, there is no way to get back into RO compliance without staying two straight years, which can be a long time to not travel outside Canada at all​

So if we are ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering, would we be RO compliant then and can apply for extension? Only risk here is the entry itself as we are then entering after 3+ years of soft landing?

Also, Can I sponsor my baby while we all are in US? Or do we have to move to canada to sponsor? Current wait times are 18+ months hence asking if we can start it asap

"So if we are ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering, would we be RO compliant then and can apply for extension? "​

There is NO "extension" of PR status. There is no application for an extension. A PR continues to have status when the PR card expires. No need to apply for or have a new PR card to keep PR status.

A PR is a Canadian, a Canadian PR, and remains so unless and until there is some affirmative action terminating PR status. Such as being adjudicated inadmissible, renouncing status, or becoming a citizen.

I hesitate, given the "only" part, when questions are asked like: "Only risk here is the entry itself as we are then entering after 3+ years of soft landing?"

Yes, for a PR in breach of the RO, there is a risk of being questioned about RO compliance at the border (at the PoE) upon arrival from abroad. And for a PR in breach of the RO, that includes a risk that border officials will initiate the Inadmissibility Report process resulting in the issuance of a Removal Order, which is a decision terminating PR status subject to appeal. (The PR is still allowed into Canada and has 30 days to file an appeal, which will allow the PR to continue staying in Canada pending the appeal.)

If a PR is waived into Canada without being subject to the Inadmissibility Report process, that eliminates the risk the return to Canada will trigger inadmissibility proceedings. As long as the PR then stays AND does not engage in any other actions which might trigger a RO compliance examination (a "Residency Determination"), the PR's status is OK. If the PR can stay long enough to get into RO compliance (which may mean having to stay a full two years) BEFORE engaging in any other action that might trigger a RO compliance examination, and does that, once the PR is back into RO compliance any previous breach of the RO does not matter, it is in effect cured.

That does not eliminate any other risks the PR might have in the meantime. What other risks, or if and when there are other risks, depends on all the circumstances in the PR's particular situation, including doing something that could trigger an examination of RO compliance (that is, a Residency Determination). In terms of the risk there is a RO compliance examination, the following actions or events may (some for sure will) trigger the RO compliance examination:

-- arrival at PoE from abroad (this constitutes an "application" for actual, physical admission/entry into Canada, and generally this does NOT trigger a Residency Determination, unless border officials identify a probable breach of the RO)​

-- application for a PR TD from abroad (this WILL trigger a Residency Determination; RO compliance is an eligibility requirement)​

-- application for a new PR card (this WILL trigger a Residency Determination; RO compliance is an eligibility requirement)​

-- application to sponsor a family member (this MIGHT trigger a Residency Determination, since valid PR status is an eligibility requirement)​

The last of these leads to further discussion about making an application to sponsor a child . . .

 

[dpenabill]

Further discussion about making an application to sponsor a child . . .

"Also, Can I sponsor my baby while we all are in US? Or do we have to move to canada to sponsor? Current wait times are 18+ months hence asking if we can start it asap"​

Again, note that the manner in which some *rules* are applied or enforced is fixed, definite. For some others there is a range in which they can be applied with some flexibility or leniency

As @Ponga referenced, a family sponsorship application by a PR must be made IN Canada and the PR really needs to be residing and staying in Canada (but for short trips abroad) while the application is pending. This might not be absolutely applied in all cases but this is one of the more fixed and definite rules.

In contrast, the requirement that the PR be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation to be eligible to sponsor is one of the more flexible rules. We see quite a few anecdotal reports of NO problems even though the sponsor is not in compliance. Key factors include not being in breach by a lot and being solidly settled in Canada (including appearing to be solidly settled in Canada; appearances matter).

For one thing, unlike an application for a PR TD or new PR card, which require a Residency Determination, it is more like a PoE screening upon arrival from abroad, the official assessing the sponsorship application does not necessarily need to screen and verify RO compliance, so it is a matter of whether the facts and circumstances indicate to the official that there is cause to, in effect, investigate RO compliance and engage in a Residency Determination. We see very little indication of IRCC officials being aggressive or engaging in gotcha-games. The longer the PR is settled in Canada and otherwise appears to be in Canada to stay, the less risk that being short of RO compliance will trigger a Residency Determination.

HOWEVER, as I previously mentioned, if you are in breach because you have been outside Canada for three continuous years, so that you will in breach unless and until you stay in Canada a full two years, that makes the breach very obvious, and thus that likely elevates the risks, since the breach is so certain and continuing for so long. IRCC is not overtly aggressive and lets a lot slide by when it appears the PR is actually pursuing a life in Canada . . . but that does not mean it will or even can overlook the for-sure-breach. (Subject to the breach being waived for H&C reasons).

Contrasting examples (noting substantial differences in risk):

Example 1 -- PR residing in Canada makes a sponsorship application two to four months short of being in compliance with the RO, short in terms of how much in breach, AND short two to four months in terms of WHEN the PR will be in RO compliance --​

-- So far as the anecdotal reporting appears to show, in conjunction with an absence of actual cases in IAD decisions suggesting otherwise, this is NOT likely to trigger the Inadmissibility Report process (noting though there is a risk it might). For one thing, a rather significant thing, assuming the PR stays in Canada the next three and four months, the PR is likely to be in RO compliance within the time it takes for the officials handling the sponsorship application to open the application, recognize there is a potential RO compliance issue, and refer the matter to the officials who would schedule a RO compliance examination, and by that time the PR has stayed long enough to either be in full compliance or is close enough to compliance not much of a H&C case is needed to allow the PR to keep status.​

Example 2 -- PR residing in Canada makes a sponsorship application when the PR is two to four months, or more, short of being in compliance with the RO, short in terms of how much in breach, BUT because the PR was outside Canada for such a lengthy period of time, it will take a year or up to two years before the PR will be in RO compliance (the date when looking back at the previous five years, the PR has been in Canada more than two years) --​

-- In this circumstance, even if it takes several months to open the sponsorship application, and several more months for a RO compliance examination to be scheduled, the PR is still in breach and is going to continue being in breach for some time going forward; so, there is a significant if not substantial risk of triggering a Residency Determination and the Inadmissibility Report process. This risk diminishes the longer and more well established in Canada the PR is; but this situation potentially runs into a scenario where the breach is so obvious IRCC is in effect required by its mandate to enforce the law to conduct a Residency Determination (noting though that H&C factors may save the day for the PR, IF the H&C factors are enough, and in this regard the longer the PR has been settled in Canada the better the H&C case on its face).​

A lot of complex detail. Sorry.

Save the fuss: at least one of you get to Canada before you breach the RO . . . that one can sponsor the child . . . and even sponsor the other one if they breach the RO and lose PR status because of it. But one settled in Canada with valid PR status is also a big factor that could reduce the risk of RO enforcement action against the other who does breach the RO.

 

[armoured]

As @dpenabill mentioned:

-- if the last absence was for three years or more, there is no way to get back into RO compliance without staying two straight years, which can be a long time to not travel outside Canada at all

So if we are ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering, would we be RO compliant then and can apply for extension? ...

Also, Can I sponsor my baby while we all are in US?

Others have covered but to put it as concisely as possible: no, you cannot sponsor child from outside Canada.

@dpenabill has covered in great detail, but I wish to emphasize: you can say now that you are "ok stay 2 years at stretch after entering" (i.e. not travelling).

There is a consistent pattern here of PRs who think they are ok not travelling, but then it turns out that they need or want to: whether for job, family responsibilities, health matters, preference to give birth in home country or have children spend time with (grand)parents, whatever. Things come up. And those with no buffer and - as described - no clear evidence of being settled in Canada have more problems than those who returned earlier and had a buffer.

And sometimes, those complications become very serious indeed and consequences can occur up to and including losing PR status.

 

[canuck78]

There also is no mention why you couldn’t move to meet your RO. All the reasons had to do with a high risk pregnancy but if the child is 5 months old and will be around 8 months by the time you need to be in Canada that isn’t preventing you from being able to move. Is there an H&C reason you can’t move in order to meet your RO?