PR card Expires before the 730 days required

[Leon]

Hi;

I first landed in Canada in May 2012 under FSW, I got a job and worked in Winnipeg for three months, unfortunately due to my mothers deteriorating health conditions i had to return back to India in September 2012. Now i am going to return to Canada on 29th September 2014. I have my PR Card with me which is valid till July 2017

I wanted to know whether there would be any inquiry or problems from Immigration authorities upon my return to Canada, Also what precautions and preparations i should make to enter Canada smoothly.Any documents that i need to keep handy at the time of landing etc.

Also i would like to know that as i had stayed for good 4 months in Canada in 2012, can i return to India for 15 days every year as a vacation and still continue to hold my PR and renew it once i have crossed stipulated requirement of 730 days out of every 5 year period.

Hoping to have a quick reply. Need your urgent reply

Regards

Sanket Vohra

As a PR, you are allowed to stay outside Canada for up to 1095 days (3 years) in any 5 year period so you are well within those limits. Therefore it would be safe for you to take a 15 day or 1 month vacation in India every year until you renew your PR card.

You don't just cross 730 days once, you must keep it rolling because it is a rolling requirement. You need to have at least 730 days in Canada in your first 5 years as a PR and once you have been a PR for more than 5 years, you always need 730 days in the past 5 years.

 

[nader gamal]

Hi all,

Please I need you advice about my case.
I landed in canada on October 2011 and received PR card with expiry date of Feb 2017. I stayed in Canada for one month since I landed.
The 730 days required will start by Feb 2015, and I am planing to go and stay in Canada by May 2015.
My questions are:
1) do I will have a problem when entering canada on May 2015, since at that time I didnt spend the 730 days required in the first 5 years?
2) If I entered without problems, I can go out canada till the PR expiry date Feb 2017 (Just for emergency) then after Feb 2017 I have to stay more 3-4 months to complete the 730 days then apply to renew the PR, is that right??
3) My wife doesnt have PR and she will come with me with a visit visa, then I will start making her file from inside canada. Do I will face a problem when applying for her PR since I didnt meet the residency requirements?? noting that my baby daugther has a canadian passport.
I appreciate your reply.

Thanks.

 

[Leon]

Hi all,

Please I need you advice about my case.
I landed in canada on October 2011 and received PR card with expiry date of Feb 2017. I stayed in Canada for one month since I landed.
The 730 days required will start by Feb 2015, and I am planing to go and stay in Canada by May 2015.
My questions are:
1) do I will have a problem when entering canada on May 2015, since at that time I didnt spend the 730 days required in the first 5 years?
2) If I entered without problems, I can go out canada till the PR expiry date Feb 2017 (Just for emergency) then after Feb 2017 I have to stay more 3-4 months to complete the 730 days then apply to renew the PR, is that right??
3) My wife doesnt have PR and she will come with me with a visit visa, then I will start making her file from inside canada. Do I will face a problem when applying for her PR since I didnt meet the residency requirements?? noting that my baby daugther has a canadian passport.
I appreciate your reply.

Thanks.

First and foremost, the text I bolded above is a wrong assumption based on that you must only meet the 730 days requirement before the expiry of your card. In reality, you must meet it already in your first 5 years as a PR, that is counting from your landing date. Or you could also say that you are not allowed to be outside Canada longer than 1094 days in your first 5 years, that's 3 years. So if you left Canada in November 2011, you should return by November 2014 in order to be able to meet the RO (residency obligation).

1) If the immigration officers realize that you don't meet the RO, it is very likely that you will have a problem when you enter. The immigration officers can not deny you entry but they can report you for not meeting the residency obligation. If they report you, you have to appeal within 30 days or you would lose your PR. Winning an appeal would depend on if you had humanitarian grounds for not being able to meet the RO. Such grounds could be something like taking care of a sick relative, having serious medical problems of your own, having been removed from Canada by your parents as a minor. However, choosing to stay outside Canada in order to study or because of a good job would not be considered as humanitarian grounds.

2) If you have stayed outside Canada for 1095 days or more, you would need a full 2 years in Canada in order to meet the RO again. If you are lucky enough to be allowed to enter without being reported, I would recommend staying in Canada for the next 2 years. If you leave, you are again at risk when you re-enter that you will get reported.

3) You can not sponsor your wife if you yourself don't meet the RO because even if you get in without being reported, once you apply to sponsor your wife, immigration will become aware that you don't meet it and they can at this point start an examination of your status which could result in you being reported and losing your PR. As for your wife staying in Canada as a visitor for 2 years, it's not easy. She would have to apply to renew her status every 6 months, she wouldn't have health care and she wouldn't be able to work or study. Your child being Canadian is completely irrelevant. A Canadian child gives you zero rights in Canada until they are 18 or older and have income of their own, then it is possible that she can sponsor you if parents can still be sponsored at that point in time.

You can avoid this mess by returning to Canada no later than November 2014, that is less than 3 years after you left. In that case, you can apply to sponsor your wife immediately but you should stay in Canada for your 2 years straight in order to meet the RO again.

 

[nader gamal]

Thanks Leon for your reply.

I still have some doubts and need your advice.

1) If the 5 years should start from landing date, so what does it refer the expiry date written on the PR card?
2) If I entered canada before the full 3 years time allowed, at that time I will just start the 730 days, there will be no problem to sponsor my wife immediately even if I don't have a job?
3) you mentioned that I have to stay the 2 years straight, what will happen if I have to leave for emergency (like taking care of a sick relativeand) and then come back. at that time I can provide reasons or documents. That can be accepted? the issue is my parents are old in age, and I may need to travel any time to them!

Thanks.

 

[Leon]

Thanks Leon for your reply.

I still have some doubts and need your advice.

1) If the 5 years should start from landing date, so what does it refer the expiry date written on the PR card?
2) If I entered canada before the full 3 years time allowed, at that time I will just start the 730 days, there will be no problem to sponsor my wife immediately even if I don't have a job?
3) you mentioned that I have to stay the 2 years straight, what will happen if I have to leave for emergency (like taking care of a sick relativeand) and then come back. at that time I can provide reasons or documents. That can be accepted? the issue is my parents are old in age, and I may need to travel any time to them!

Thanks.

1) The date on the card is the expiry date of the card itself. After this date, an airline should not allow you to board a plane to Canada but instead you should go to a Canadian embassy and apply for a travel document in order to return.

The RO has really nothing to do with the expiry date on your card. The RO must be met for any rolling 5 year period, your first 5 years as a PR and after that, always for the past 5 years.

You can see this here:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA

Minimum residency obligations

You must meet the residency obligation to obtain a Permanent Resident Card.

If you have been a permanent resident for five (5) years or more

* you must have been physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years.

If you have been a permanent resident for less than five (5) years

* you must show that you will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days of physical presence in Canada within five (5) years of the date you became a permanent resident.

2) There would be no problem sponsoring your wife if you return after less than 3 years as you would meet the RO as seen above. There is no specific income requirement to sponsor a spouse, however, you can still be refused if you are unable to show that you can support your family without going on welfare.

3) It may be accepted but immigration may not consider your excuses for the emergency visit if you spent your full 3 years outside Canada earlier based on self-serving reasons such as a well paid job. If you think you may need to go home for emergencies in the next two years, it would be better to allow for this by returning even earlier like in October which would give you an extra month leeway in case you need to go home quickly in an emergency. It is never a good idea to stretch your limits to the last day. Always leave at least a few days buffer.

 

[nader gamal]

there is any minimum fund should be available to show that I can support my family without going on welfare?

 

[Leon]

there is any minimum fund should be available to show that I can support my family without going on welfare?

No, there is no specific fund or income requirement. It would be better if you have a job so that you can say you have an income. Take a survival job when you arrive and look for a better job later.

 

[nader gamal]

Hi Leon,

Sorry for asking more questions, but i wanna understand more to take the decision.

1) when entering Canada, i make a PR scan then enter so am dealing with a machine not officer. and even if I speak to officer, how he will know that i didn't met the RO? since there is no stamp or records proofing when I left Canada. so to know that I didn't met the RO, he should check all my passports pages and check all the stamps. please correct me if I am mistaken and if they can really check all that in the airport?

2) you mentioned that if I didn't met the RO, i cant make sponsorship to my wife. do they ask for a copy of all pages of my passport when i submit the sponsor application? As i checked on CIC, they only need the stamps of entering Canada, and I believe the copy of all passport pages will be required only when renewing the PR.

Appreciate your advice.

Thanks

 

[Leon]

Hi Leon,

Sorry for asking more questions, but i wanna understand more to take the decision.

1) when entering Canada, i make a PR scan then enter so am dealing with a machine not officer. and even if I speak to officer, how he will know that i didn't met the RO? since there is no stamp or records proofing when I left Canada. so to know that I didn't met the RO, he should check all my passports pages and check all the stamps. please correct me if I am mistaken and if they can really check all that in the airport?

2) you mentioned that if I didn't met the RO, i cant make sponsorship to my wife. do they ask for a copy of all pages of my passport when i submit the sponsor application? As i checked on CIC, they only need the stamps of entering Canada, and I believe the copy of all passport pages will be required only when renewing the PR.

Appreciate your advice.

Thanks

1) It has happened that people have gone through the automatic gate at the airport and still have been pulled out for a secondary inspection and reported. I do not work for CIC so I do not know which info they have access to, however, some have said that they know them to have accessed airline manifests when they want to as well as they work with border control in other countries as well. Do not assume that they don't know how long you were gone. If you lie and get caught, you could be in even more trouble. Lying to immigration is fraud and can be punished, see http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/prosecutions-poursuites/que/2012-10-03-eng.html

2) As above, they have access to information from different sources and they are in their full right to examine your status. There have been people on this forum who were able to enter Canada without getting reported but were "caught" later when they tried to sponsor a member of their family.

 

[keesio]

Big brother is watching. With all the information collecting and sharing (between governments), it is much easier to get data on your movements. No longer is passport stamps the main way to know of your comings and goings.

 

[meyakanor]

1) It has happened that people have gone through the automatic gate at the airport and still have been pulled out for a secondary inspection and reported. I do not work for CIC so I do not know which info they have access to, however, some have said that they know them to have accessed airline manifests when they want to as well as they work with border control in other countries as well. Do not assume that they don't know how long you were gone. If you lie and get caught, you could be in even more trouble. Lying to immigration is fraud and can be punished, see http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/prosecutions-poursuites/que/2012-10-03-eng.html

If they have access to the flight manifests, wouldn't that mean it would be very easy to verify whether you're telling the truth on your PR card renewal or citizenship applications? Unless, of course, your name is John Smith or Mary Jane (and you have more than one visa-exempt passports), in which case there are probably thousands of others with the exact same name.

So if somebody stays in Canada for four years without leaving, and he/she doesn't have a common name, and at the same time, the person has been also (for example) unemployed the whole time he/she has been in Canada, why would CIC still doubt their residency in this case?

 

[Leon]

If they have access to the flight manifests, wouldn't that mean it would be very easy to verify whether you're telling the truth on your PR card renewal or citizenship applications? Unless, of course, your name is John Smith or Mary Jane (and you have more than one visa-exempt passports), in which case there are probably thousands of others with the exact same name.

So if somebody stays in Canada for four years without leaving, and he/she doesn't have a common name, and at the same time, the person has been also (for example) unemployed the whole time he/she has been in Canada, why would CIC still doubt their residency in this case?

I'm not saying that they know everything and there have been cases where people have managed to keep their PR or even get citizenship by lying about having spent time in Canada. However, you don't know what they know so if you lie, you are risking your PR. In order to avoid the need to lie, simply meet the RO and you will be fine.

 

[canaman]

Hello,
My 1st post but i have been reading this thread and would like some clarification if possible.

We landed back in 2011 and stayed for 4 weeks, we then came home and decided not to return to Canada for family reasons. (Not health but child care, family, jobs etc etc)

It appears I am being made redundant so we have decided its time to go and try Canada.
We are going to be well under the 730 (500ish) day requirement but I have read if you stay for 2 years you should be able to renew PR with little concern.

My main concern appears to be the airport. If you do get reported can you say I only intend to stay until my PR runs out as our plan might be only to stay a year and return.?
If you get reported will you have to leave the country soon as I have 2 children and need to plan for coming over, ie schools and long term accommodation. We are prepared to stay for only 1 year if that's the case.

Does anyone know of the % chances of getting reported or have any further advice that could help?
Many thanks

 

[keesio]

Hello,
My 1st post but i have been reading this thread and would like some clarification if possible.

We landed back in 2011 and stayed for 4 weeks, we then came home and decided not to return to Canada for family reasons. (Not health but child care, family, jobs etc etc)

It appears I am being made redundant so we have decided its time to go and try Canada.
We are going to be well under the 730 (500ish) day requirement but I have read if you stay for 2 years you should be able to renew PR with little concern.

My main concern appears to be the airport. If you do get reported can you say I only intend to stay until my PR runs out as our plan might be only to stay a year and return.?
If you get reported will you have to leave the country soon as I have 2 children and need to plan for coming over, ie schools and long term accommodation. We are prepared to stay for only 1 year if that's the case.

Does anyone know of the % chances of getting reported or have any further advice that could help?
Many thanks

No one can tell you the % chances of getting reported. There are too many variables. All I can say is that the % chance of being reporting is much much higher if you try to return with an expired PR card. So make sure you return before it does. If you do enter Canada without being reported, the recommendation is to then stay in Canada for 2 years to renew your PR card. If you leave before then and try to come back with an expired PR card, the % chance of being reported goes up exponentially.

 

[Leon]

My main concern appears to be the airport. If you do get reported can you say I only intend to stay until my PR runs out as our plan might be only to stay a year and return.?
If you get reported will you have to leave the country soon as I have 2 children and need to plan for coming over, ie schools and long term accommodation. We are prepared to stay for only 1 year if that's the case.

If you get reported, that is the first step towards revoking your PR. If you want to have a chance of keeping your PR, you must appeal for it. If you do not appeal for it, you will lose it and be asked to leave. If you appeal, you may stay in Canada as a PR during your appeal processing which can take 1-2 years. Ultimately, winning or losing the appeal will depend on your good reasons for not being able to meet the RO.

You should never say that you are planning to stay for only a year. You should say that you have mitigating reasons for not being able to meet the RO until now but at this time you are ready to settle in Canada and stay forever. That's what a PR is for.