PR application denial and the review process.

[madmax]

I discussed this with some of the folks in the May2013 group but I think it would make sense to get everyone's take on my situation.
I applied in May 2013, got my AOR and the bridging work permit. Like everyone waiting for the medical request, I was excited to get a mail from CIC.

Here is what I got:

"I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the Canadian Experience Class and have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.

According to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, applicants in the Canadian Experience Class are assessed on the basis of the pass/fail requirements set out in subsection R87.1(2). The assessment of these criteria determines whether a worker with Canadian experience will be able to become economically established in Canada. The criteria are:

temporary resident status during the period of work experience in Canada and any period of full time study or training,
meeting the minimum language proficiency threshold in either English or French, and
qualifying Canadian skilled work experience.

Your application was assessed based on the occupations which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada:

I am not satisfied that you meet the Canadian work experience requirement because you have not obtained sufficient full-time equivalent Canadian work experience within the 36 months preceding the date the application was made.

Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the Regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(1) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.

Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and Regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.

Thank you for the interest you have shown in Canada.

Yours sincerely,
Case Officer
Citizenship and Immigration Canada"


After looking at many rejection letters online, i noticed that the cause for denial was explained in every case. Yet my letter did not have any clear explanation to my rejection.

Here is some background that might help anyone who reads this. I worked through 3 different professions with 3 NOC codes that add up 1 year 1 day.

I contacted a lawyer and they submitted a request to review the application again. I meet all the requirements through years, days and hours. But I'll specify them below. I'm hoping they accept the plea and move on to the next step.

Let me know if you know anyone cases like this and what was the possible way out of this, i would everyone's input on this!


NOC- Days
1st job (11/03/2013 -15/03/2013)
2nd Job ( 01/09/2011 -01/06/2012)
3rd job ( 04/08/2010- 29/10/2010)

I get about 367 days total with 261 working days. Which fulfills the requirements. All the Nocs were 37.5 hours of work.

The only things I can think of here, is maybe when the CO opened the file which is on January 5th, 2014(Hypothetical) The 3rd job experience does not come within the 36 months requirement, for which the letter would make sense. But I always thought the 3 years are counted based on when the application was submitted and not when it was opened.

I would love to hear everyone's feedback on this. It's been a tough year and I hope this get sorted out soon!

 

[iamroth]

Yes it would be better to get a detailed refusal letter, instead of "I don't think you have enough experience".

Also a year is 365 days, here you filed with 367 days. Technically you are eligible with 367 days, but that is just too close.

I hope they will clearly review your file and find out you have met the requirement on number of days.

Good luck!

 

[maza]

sorry to hear that after all that waiting... I think you can start preparing for a new set of papers and get a lawyer to review your letters, before applying again. in the meanwhile apply for GCMS notes tp know exactly why you got refused.

Alll Luck

Maza

 

[madmax]

Yes it would be better to get a detailed refusal letter, instead of "I don't think you have enough experience".

Also a year is 365 days, here you filed with 367 days. Technically you are eligible with 367 days, but that is just too close.

I hope they will clearly review your file and find out you have met the requirement on number of days.

Good luck!

Hi Iamroth, i came up with the numbers when i posted the message. My lawyer did the math on it and found out that I have 1 year and 1 days worth of qualified experience.

I asked for notes and sent in a request with a letter breaking down the work hours, weeks and years to show that i fullfull the requirement.

I really hope they look at it too, keeping my fingers crossed

 

[madmax]

sorry to hear that after all that waiting... I think you can start preparing for a new set of papers and get a lawyer to review your letters, before applying again. in the meanwhile apply for GCMS notes tp know exactly why you got refused.

Alll Luck

Maza

Hi Maza, just applied for GCMS, I'm going to wait for the CO to reply back to my request and then hopefully move on accordingly from there.

Thank you

 

[madmax]

you change jobs very often.
You seem to be a risk for an employer to be hired. VO found an irrational reason to reject you in order to protect canadian employers.

or someone reported on you about something to cic. they will not spill their source of information. you still should have a right to protect yourself.

where are you from? what were you doing for the rest of the time in Canada?

Imagine you are looking for a baby sitter. Are you taking one who spent a full year at one house with good referral letter or are you taking one who worked for a bunch of different people. How much work was done for the first three days? If I were you I would try to find common language with one of your employers, perfectly the one where you were the longest and complete your full year there.


have you worked without authorization or what?

If I were a VO I'd question the following:

1. employment for three days????????
2. Why do you change so often?
3. Are these three jobs within the same of similar field?

Sorry for rough answer bit this is the only answer that may help.. Go to church if you need compassion.

I could see how you can say all that. All these positions were contract based jobs in the same field. They are however different positions with different responsibilities. I did graduate during a bad economic year as it was hard to find a stable position.

I hopefully don't have enemies, my employers were statisfied by my work. I understand the babysitter analogy, baby sitters arent always hired forever, they are employed on a contractual basis and the contracts are extended every now and then based on the work available. My positions were project based and a lot of companies in my field hire recent graduates like me when they are understaffed.

This was all under the post grad work permit and the last position was for 5 days not 3, It didn't work out with the start up so I had to move on.

I have been working during this process with another company and that position was eliminated too within 10 months due to downsizing.( I really have bad luck I guess :'( :'(

Compassion isn't a solution here, I'm looking for a resolution. I have lived here for 8 years now and It's hard to understand a refusal when you've been here for so long.

 

[madmax]

Good luck Brywus!

It will work out with the VO hopefully.

 

[madmax]

Anyone have an idea about this one?

The only things I can think of here, is maybe when the CO opened the file which is on January 5th, 2014(Hypothetical) The 3rd job experience does not come within the 36 months requirement, for which the letter would make sense. But I always thought the 3 years are counted based on when the application was submitted and not when it was opened.

Thanks!

 

[jes_ON]

I applied in May 2013.... What date was it received? (Identified in the AOR). The 3 year period is based on the date the application is received by CIC.

"I meet all the requirements through years, days and hours." CIC counts eligibility by the number of WEEKS worked - 52 weeks in 1 year - so

1st job (11/03/2013 -15/03/2013) 1 week
2nd Job ( 01/09/2011 -01/06/2012) 38 weeks (+ 2 days)
3rd job ( 04/08/2010- 29/10/2010) 12 weeks (+ 3 days)

I only get 51 full weeks, just barely 52 weeks by including the PARTIAL weeks (which I would not do). This assumes that:

(a) all of your documentation supported the fact that each week was at least 30 hours per week. (If you had any weeks that were fewer than 30 hours per week, then you have to calculate the FTE for the part-time weeks, which will result in fewer weeks). Documentation includes the stated hours worked per week in your letter of employment, as well as expected earnings (based on salary/wage reported in the letters) vs. actual earnings (T4, NOA).

(b) All of your Letters of employment were dated AFTER completing the work period. If they were dated before, you will only get credit up to the date of the letter.

(c) other issues, such as unpaid leave of absence or employment out of the country...

We keep telling people not to cut it too close, give themselves a little leeway (a couple of extra weeks), and this is the reason why.

It might help to apply for your Records of Employment, which will clearly give dates of employment reported by your employers to Service Canada.

Good luck -

 

[gladaki]

Rejection letter should be more explained. My old application was rejected due to insufficient work exp..they counted my exp frm convocation. I think you need to ask the exact reason, so even if you applied next time you are sure about your application. My previous application was rejected due to less work exp but I can see that they were ok with my job duties and designation..


Good luck, pasting my old rejection letter below




Dear xxxxx



I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the Canadian Experience Class and have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.

According to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, applicants in the Canadian Experience Class are assessed on the basis of the pass/fail requirements set out in subsection R87.1(2). The assessment of these criteria determines whether a worker with Canadian experience will be able to become economically established in Canada. The criteria are:

· knowledge of English or French,

· Canadian skilled work experience,

· Canadian educational credentials (for the Post-Graduation Stream only).

Your application was assessed based on the occupation which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada: geophysicist (NOC 2113).

I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement. According to your application, you worked from February 21, 2012 to October 11, 2012 as a geophysicist for xxx (7mo). You also worked as a geophysicist fo rxxx from July 4, 2011 to February 14, 2012 (8 mo), and as a Research Assistant for University of xxx from September 2008 to May 2011, while you were studying. As such, your work as a research assistant does not meet the definition of “work” as defined under R2 of the Regulations.

Definition of "Work" [R2]

“Work” is defined in the Regulations as an activity for which wages are paid or commission is earned, or that competes directly with activities of Canadian citizens or permanent residents in the Canadian labour market.

Per R87.1(a)(A), to qualify under the post-graduation stream, an applicant must have acquired 12 months of full-time skilled work experience after having obtained a Canadian educational credential (degree, diploma, or certificate) on the completion of a program of full time study or training of at least two years duration in Canada. I note that your educational credential was granted on 10NOV2011, as a result, the qualifying period commences at that time and unfortunately you have acquired 12 months of full time skilled work experience during his qualifying period.



I have also assessed applicant under the TFW stream. Under this stream, your qualifying period is from October 30, 2009 to October 31, 2012. During this period, you accumulated 15 months of skilled work experience. As stated above, the letter from the University of Calgary does not distinguish between studies and work experience, as such I am not satisfied you have acquired 24 months of skilled work within 36 months before the application was made.

Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the Regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(1) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.

Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and Regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.

Thank you for the interest you have shown in Canada.



Yours sincerely,



Case Officer

Citizenship and Immigration Canada



Case Processing Pilot - Ottawa | Centre de Traitement Pilote – Ottawa – D1817

Citizenship and Immigration Canada | Citoyenneté et Immigration Canada
219 Laurier Avenue West Ottawa ON K1A 1L1 | 219 avenue Laurier Ouest

7th Floor | 7ème étage, Section B

Ottawa ON K1A 1L1 Canada
Facsimile | Télécopieur 613-946-6059

E-mail I Courriel : OttPilot-immigration@cic.gc.ca

Site : www.cic.gc.ca

Disclaimer: By supplying your email address, you are initiating an email communication with CIC and thereby authorizing CIC to use your email address for communication with you including the transmission of personal information on your file/case.

 

[jes_ON]

there is one thig you do not address. Why does VO give such a out of this earth explanation while you say it is because of 1 year not met?

The VO's explanation was simply "because you have not obtained sufficient full-time equivalent Canadian work experience within the 36 months preceding the date the application was made."

While I agree it's short on details, and the example that gladacki provided is more helpful, there's nothing "out of the earth" about it. The applicant did not have enough experience, in the VO's estimation. Whether that's because of dates, or hours, lack of authorization, suspicion of a "bogus" employment (I'd be suspicious of that last week myself); or a miscalculation - we don't have enough information.

It's certainly worth inquiring about.

 

[xymonkeant]

They are however different positions with different responsibilities.

As per instruction guide :

Applications for Permanent Residence under the Canadian Experience Class can be submitted by individuals who have at least 12 months of qualifying Canadian work experience in a managerial, professional, skilled trade or technical occupation, and who meet the language proficiency requirements for their occupational skill level.

 

[Sophia.B]

Sorry to hear that,, I had same experience last year due to lack of working hours. very sad and frustrated and everything went to black take a deep breath! there are lots ways. you should apply GCMS notes, they will have more details on it. From my understanding is that they check the days, hours from your employee letter, not what you wrote which sometimes doesn't make sense. hope you have better luck after they review it. I applied again and add more days on my application, I just did my medical.
good luck!

 

[gladaki]

Get gcms and make sure you are sure about reason before asking them to reveiw again

 

[madmax]

Thanks for replying back Jes_ON

the date it was received was August 1,2013. So I'm still in 3 year limit, (phew!)

I spoke to my lawyer after I read your message, their legal suggestion is that I have 52 weeks and 1 day. They used the extra days as these are days you worked and it doesnt make sense to ignore them just because they don't fit in a week.

A Yes the documentation supported all the information as stated on the letter, i didn't work part time at all.

B letters were dated after employment, i applied few weeks after.

C didn't leave the country, or had unpaid leave

I didn't have any other pertaining work experience to match the requirement and I couldn't wait any longer as my permit was expiring. But i agree more work ex would have helped in this case.

Waiting for GCMS, hopefully I'll get a better idea about the situation.